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Heel & Face turns

1734 Views 23 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Frozen Inferno
I am fan of TNA but it seems like their wrestlers switch faces to heels every month. I understand why Fortune had to just cuz of the Mafia storyline falling thru. I don't think Fortune needs to side with anyone Angle or Immortal, they should just be their own entity & do what is good for the faction. I just think they need to stick heel or face personality for awhile before turning them again. What you think
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Even further than that, the entire Russo reign I couldn't begin to think how many times they flip flopped guys like AJ and Angle. Not that I want to get into a TNA bashing discussion here, but one thing I think is really lacking is the concept of momentum or continuity, because for all Vince Russo wants to say he's "not a booker, he's a television writer", the way he works is that he will turn people with no idea of the effect it has in order to fit whatever story he has in mind at that time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you were to do a word document on the amount of face/heel turns they have had since January 4th, your computer would probably crash.
Thats what I am saying, well everyone from Fortune is now a face not counting Flair. Morgan started it then Williams now the rest of them are all babyfaces. And Dinero has switch from heel to face now to back to heel within 4 months.
 

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Yeah, the turns have been a little ridiculous. But oddly enough for the most part, most of them have worked. Jarrett shouldn't have turned, he should have simply left. Joe and Angle have been constant faces for over a year. Wolfe has always been heel(when healthy). RVD has been face since he has arrived. But yeah, Kennedy should have stayed heel. He's over with the crowd anyway, so why turn him? He works better as a heel anyway, and occasionally he can be used as a tweener against other heels. Morgan and Williams probably should have stayed heel as I think they suck as faces and Immortal could use them. But I think Fortune being heel then turning back face was important and it worked as did Jeff starting as a face then turning heel.

As for Pope, I really don't give two sh*ts about him. He's only a slightly better R-Truth to me.
 

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Pope, Team 3D and Kazarian are the only ones who I think have been turned too much. The rest have all been well executed with a good enough time lapse between. Whilst there probably have been too many heel/face turns since 2010, I acknowledge that its a way of keeping the roster fresh without making personel changes so from a storyline perspective I understand it.
 

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i think people on here are just exaggerating the turns.

AJ turned once in 2010.
RVD not at all.
Hardy once.
Anderson once.
Abyss once.
Fortune is a little tricky cause it didnt seem clear who was face/heel in their EV2.0 feud but id say they only switched once.
Generation Me turned heel.
Bully Ray once.
Jarrett once.
Angle no turn.
Joe hasnt really turned at all.
Morgan twice.
MCMG not at all.
Sting once i guess. he was attacking RVD.
Hogan/Bischoff once.


just did this off memory. why is everyone complaining? once a year is too much? OK....
 

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actually morgan turned 3 times in 2010 he was a face at first with the tag team with hernandez and then tunrned heel joined fourtune and then back to a babyface with concussion storyline..
 

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This one has me puzzled. I missed 1 or 2 Impacts and suddenly this dude's now a heel? What the hell happened?
for 2-4 weeks or so they showed Pope at different places, strip clubs, a dog kennel, etc. making shady remarks on a cell phone. talking about using the money he got from his "congregation". there was also a segment where EY and OJ wanted to donate to him (cause they think he is putting the money to good use) and he just takes their check, acting as if he really is doing good with the money. then it was revealed Joe had a cameraman (Kiyoshi, i believe) follow Pope to find out about all these things and how he is misusing money and misleading people.
 

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BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER ^^^^

Also, I think people are missing the point about these turns. Some people are flip flopping, but look how many people you listed as having turned. Having looked at the TNA roster on their site, the following turned at least once since 2010 -

Abyss
AJ
Angelina
Velvet
Kendrick
Bully Ray
Pope
Douglas Williams
Bischoff
Young
GenMe
Hogan
James Storm
Jeff Hardy
Jeff Jarrett
Kazarian
Morgan
Anderson
Flair
Terry
Roode

This isn't including guys like Nash and Sting who are no longer on the roster that were a major part of storylines.

This is way, way too high a number, because who the hell can gather momentum when they're turning everybody? No turn has any meaning because they happen with such frequency anyway, its just mindless.
 

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i think people on here are just exaggerating the turns.
Almost everybody has turned since 2009. Most of them multiple times.

*Abyss : turned heel in mid 2010
*AJ Styles : turned heel in january 2010 and back to face in 2011
*MCMG : faces in 2009, tweeners/heels at the beginning of 2010, back to faces during their title reign
*Red : always face (but he's a jobber who gets no tv time)
*Kendrick : heel, then joined EV2 who were faces, now plays a character I have no clue about.
*Team 3D : were faces in 2009, turned heels after BfG 2009, back to faces in 2010 starting with the Nasty boys feud, then Bubba turned on Jesse Neal, then he went back to face for hardcore justice and the retirement match vs MCMG, and now back to heel.
*Dinero : started as heel in 2009, turned face after BfG 2009, back to heel for the deception storyline after No surrender 2010, back to face after BfG 2010, and now heel again.
*Wolfe : always heel( although apparently the unaired segment with the BI reunion would make him a face)
*Douglas Williams : heel since 2009, turned face after BfG 2010.
*Eric Young : face in 2009, turned heel to form the World Elite, turned face when fighting the Band, turned heel to join the Band, now a comedy jobber.
(Nash : a heel in 2009, turned face when betrayed by the Band, joined the Band by betraying Eric Young, turned face with the BfG 2010 swerve.)
*Hernandez : face since 2009, came back as heel in 2011. LAX turned too in previous years.
*Beer Money : heels when facing 3D in 2009, turned face in 2009 during the feud, turned heels in february 2010, turned face again in 2011.
*Lethal : always face (although reportedly the Lethal invitational was seeds for a heel turn)
*Jeff Hardy : turned heel at Bfg 2010
*Jarrett : turned heel at BFg 2010
*Gen-Me : started as faces, turned heels in mid 2010.
*Jesse Neal : first a face bullied by Rhino, turned heel to join Team 3D and Rhino (!!) after BFG 2009, now a face.
*Kazarian : came back as a face in 2010, turned heel after sacrifice 2010, now a face again.
*Angle : turned face at Bfg 2009.
*Magnus : turned face apparently (?)
*Morgan : a heel in 2009, trying to join the MEM, became tweener during that feud, became full face around BfG 2009, turned heel by injuring hernandez in mid 2010, then turned face after BfG 2010 for the concussion storyline.
*Foley : a heel, a face, a tweener, it changed at basically every impact in 2009. He's a face since Bfg 2009 though.
*Anderson : first a heel, turned face after Sacrifice 2010.
*Orlando Jordan : a heel at first, now I have no clue, I don't want to watch his segments.
*Flair : always heel
*Rob Terry : heel in 2009, turned face at the beginning of 2010 when kicked out of the British invasion, back to heel to join Immortal.
*RVD : always face, but they had to do this paranoia angle with Ev2.
*Samoa Joe : face at the beginning of 2009, turned heel by joigning MEM, turned face by challenging AJ styles at AAO 2010, kidnapped, became some kind of a tweener badass, then his character got screwed again. Formally a face now.
*Steiner : a heel in 2009, back as a face now.
*Daniels : back as a face for Lockdown 2009, turned tweener then heel after BfG 2009, now back as Suicide.
*Dreamer : always face

*Angelina Love : turned face in january 2010 by attacking her bff without any reason (and one year later still cut heelish promos). The Beautiful People as a stable turned in 2008 and 2010 (face->heel->face).
*Daffney : always heel (and therefore cheered like mad)
*Madison Rayne : started as face, turned heel to join the Beautiful People in 2009, turned face when kicked out of the group, rejoined by betraying the faces immediately and became heel again, heel since.
*ODB : heel, then face in 2008-2009, turned heel for no good reason just to feud with Tara.
*Hamada : face as a single competitor while being a heel in a tag team with Kong (!!). Kong and Hamada then joined Tara, a babyface champ (!!), for a tag match vs TBP ( which the tag champs and the Ko champ duly lost and they had to be saved by Angelina, belts and in-ring credibility mean nothing, duh.).
*Traci Brooks : two completely botched attempted face turns in late 2009 - beginning of 2010.
*Sarita : turned heel in mid 2010.
*Tara : turned heel at Lockdown 2010 (and still cheered), snapped several times before that while being a face. Decided to lay down for Madison to honor a debt after that(what kind of heel would do that ?).
*Velvet Sky : turned face in mid 2010 (and kept most of her heel persona)

*Bischoff : first a face, teased heel turn on at least four occasions : January 4th, AAO 2010 when he ref'ed the world title bout, at Lockdown 2010, and when he helped AJ styles beat Jarrett. Turned heel at BFG 2010 to zero surprise.

Seriously, this mess cannot be defended.
 

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Because it was successful in 1999 Vince Russo has a "shades of grey" philosophy where everbody is a tweener. Unfortunately he still doesn't book it convincingly, so the countless swerves are so obvious thesedays. Vince Russo near single-handedly killed off the shock factor and impact of heel/face turns.

The question is whether a roster of tweeners draw at the live gate? People, especially families, enjoy attending events to cheer/boo the characters. That can be affected when it's impossible to know who is good and who is bad.
 

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You got to let things sink in. What tastes better: chicken that has bathed in BBQ sauce for 3 minutes or chicken bathed in BBQ sauce for 48 hours? Let it marinade. No rush. Let it get all the juices it can, it may take some time but it will taste way better in the end. TNA not only turns people heel and face too often but often for the dumbest and most random reasons that mainly include TNA management putting the screws to a wrestler (though the fan doesn't see it and just sees the wrestler get his ass kicked a couple of times in a FAIR MATCH) thus causing the wrestler to turn heel.

How should the alignment be?


Face: Angle, Hernandez, Pope, Samoa Joe, Styles, BMI, MCMG, Kazarian, RVD

Heel: Jarrett, Hardy, Anderson, Matt Hardy, Abyss, British Invasion (bring it back since Wolfe), Flair.
 

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Almost everybody has turned since 2009. Most of them multiple times.

*Abyss : turned heel in mid 2010
*AJ Styles : turned heel in january 2010 and back to face in 2011
*MCMG : faces in 2009, tweeners/heels at the beginning of 2010, back to faces during their title reign
*Red : always face (but he's a jobber who gets no tv time)
*Kendrick : heel, then joined EV2 who were faces, now plays a character I have no clue about.
*Team 3D : were faces in 2009, turned heels after BfG 2009, back to faces in 2010 starting with the Nasty boys feud, then Bubba turned on Jesse Neal, then he went back to face for hardcore justice and the retirement match vs MCMG, and now back to heel.
*Dinero : started as heel in 2009, turned face after BfG 2009, back to heel for the deception storyline after No surrender 2010, back to face after BfG 2010, and now heel again.
*Wolfe : always heel( although apparently the unaired segment with the BI reunion would make him a face)
*Douglas Williams : heel since 2009, turned face after BfG 2010.
*Eric Young : face in 2009, turned heel to form the World Elite, turned face when fighting the Band, turned heel to join the Band, now a comedy jobber.
(Nash : a heel in 2009, turned face when betrayed by the Band, joined the Band by betraying Eric Young, turned face with the BfG 2010 swerve.)
*Hernandez : face since 2009, came back as heel in 2011. LAX turned too in previous years.
*Beer Money : heels when facing 3D in 2009, turned face in 2009 during the feud, turned heels in february 2010, turned face again in 2011.
*Lethal : always face (although reportedly the Lethal invitational was seeds for a heel turn)
*Jeff Hardy : turned heel at Bfg 2010
*Jarrett : turned heel at BFg 2010
*Gen-Me : started as faces, turned heels in mid 2010.
*Jesse Neal : first a face bullied by Rhino, turned heel to join Team 3D and Rhino (!!) after BFG 2009, now a face.
*Kazarian : came back as a face in 2010, turned heel after sacrifice 2010, now a face again.
*Angle : turned face at Bfg 2009.
*Magnus : turned face apparently (?)
*Morgan : a heel in 2009, trying to join the MEM, became tweener during that feud, became full face around BfG 2009, turned heel by injuring hernandez in mid 2010, then turned face after BfG 2010 for the concussion storyline.
*Foley : a heel, a face, a tweener, it changed at basically every impact in 2009. He's a face since Bfg 2009 though.
*Anderson : first a heel, turned face after Sacrifice 2010.
*Orlando Jordan : a heel at first, now I have no clue, I don't want to watch his segments.
*Flair : always heel
*Rob Terry : heel in 2009, turned face at the beginning of 2010 when kicked out of the British invasion, back to heel to join Immortal.
*RVD : always face, but they had to do this paranoia angle with Ev2.
*Samoa Joe : face at the beginning of 2009, turned heel by joigning MEM, turned face by challenging AJ styles at AAO 2010, kidnapped, became some kind of a tweener badass, then his character got screwed again. Formally a face now.
*Steiner : a heel in 2009, back as a face now.
*Daniels : back as a face for Lockdown 2009, turned tweener then heel after BfG 2009, now back as Suicide.
*Dreamer : always face

*Angelina Love : turned face in january 2010 by attacking her bff without any reason (and one year later still cut heelish promos). The Beautiful People as a stable turned in 2008 and 2010 (face->heel->face).
*Daffney : always heel (and therefore cheered like mad)
*Madison Rayne : started as face, turned heel to join the Beautiful People in 2009, turned face when kicked out of the group, rejoined by betraying the faces immediately and became heel again, heel since.
*ODB : heel, then face in 2008-2009, turned heel for no good reason just to feud with Tara.
*Hamada : face as a single competitor while being a heel in a tag team with Kong (!!). Kong and Hamada then joined Tara, a babyface champ (!!), for a tag match vs TBP ( which the tag champs and the Ko champ duly lost and they had to be saved by Angelina, belts and in-ring credibility mean nothing, duh.).
*Traci Brooks : two completely botched attempted face turns in late 2009 - beginning of 2010.
*Sarita : turned heel in mid 2010.
*Tara : turned heel at Lockdown 2010 (and still cheered), snapped several times before that while being a face. Decided to lay down for Madison to honor a debt after that(what kind of heel would do that ?).
*Velvet Sky : turned face in mid 2010 (and kept most of her heel persona)

*Bischoff : first a face, teased heel turn on at least four occasions : January 4th, AAO 2010 when he ref'ed the world title bout, at Lockdown 2010, and when he helped AJ styles beat Jarrett. Turned heel at BFG 2010 to zero surprise.

Seriously, this mess cannot be defended.
You forgot Rhino. Face for most of 2009 but turned heel that fall. Went back to face for EV2 storyline, and later turned heel on EV2 following Turning Point 2010.
 

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There really shouldn't be more than two or three turns in any wrestling promotion per year. Any more than that means the show gets way too confusing - I missed a few weeks of TNA due to the closure of the Bravo channel, and now it's back on UK TV, I don't understand who I'm supposed to be yelling for, particularly with the divas. I mean, Sarita's an obviously natural face but she's now apparentlya heel, while Anjelica Love (an obvious cocky heel) may be a face now... er, get back to me on this.

Maybe I'll try to understand if Fortune are supposed to be faces now. Wrestling shouldn't be such hard work for the viewer!

I'd like to see wrestlers perform the same role through their whole career. Turning to WWE, I think Wade Barrett could be the ultimate monster heel.
 
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