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The optimistic Asuka fan
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And according to current WWE they pretty much skip past Bret Hart in any video packages, showing montages/snippets of Hogan to Warrior/savage and THEN skip to SHAWN to Austin to Rock to Cena.

That pretty much tells Hart's standing with the company as far as legacies go.
Therefore I am pretty cautious with people, who didn`t watch at these times or missed rewatching in detail. Overall they just repeat the company`s story telling.
Bret is one the guys who talked truthful very often about Vince. Also Bret is not a part of the victory story over WCW, which Vince likes a lot. There are also some other problems, like the Owen Hart incident, which comes into play if you start telling the Hart family story in WWE. Also - last but not least - Bret is the very last legit WWF champion, when people took the matches for real. The moment he left WWF, it was over.

So Bret is still part a of WWE, because he was the guy in the (first half) 90s. People know that. But Vince and Hunter just accept that, it is no like they love Bret or want to push his era. (They got Natalya, which is 100% loyal, to have a Hart puppet they can steer where they want to.)
 
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Discussion Starter #82
Therefore I am pretty cautious with people, who didn`t watch at these times or missed rewatching in detail. Overall they just repeat the company`s story telling.
Bret is one the guys who talked truthful very often about Vince. Also Bret is not a part of the victory story over WCW, which Vince likes a lot. There are also some other problems, like the Owen Hart incident, which comes into play if you start telling the Hart family story in WWE. Also - last but not least - Bret is the very last legit WWF champion, when people took the matches for real. The moment he left WWF, it was over.

So Bret is still part a of WWE, because he was the guy in the (first half) 90s. People know that. But Vince and Hunter just accept that, it is no like they love Bret or want to push his era. (They got Natalya, which is 100% loyal, to have a Hart puppet they can steer where they want to.)
I remember watching Bret's documentary where he landed his rib on the barricade and he felt so pain and one of the audience was yelling at him about how fake it was and Bret was really pissed. I'm just saying that WWF was treated joke back then.
 

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Nah, I’m your king now.
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They were never behind the boring hack in my eyes.

But all jokes aside, I really don't know where this revisionist history is coming from. We have to be talking about entertainment value? Bret couldn't draw flies to shit. Shawn either. Taker was also never that guy.

Bret was a bigger draw than Cena? Lol. Man. That's nuts.
 

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If you end all their careers at 97 or 99 when Bret ended his career, then you can say who was truly bigger. Taker and HBK got the advantage of wrestling for longer and had the WWE hype machine behind them.

Now imagine if Bret returned in 2002 same time as HBK. Who would be treated bigger? Hart. Bret would’ve had classics with Austin and Rock because he paved the way for them to succeed. Imagine Bret matches with Mysterio, Guerrero, Angle, Lesnar, Jericho, RVD, Benoit, so many names. He would’ve made everyone look like stars and have stellar matches. Now imagine Bret elevating younger talent like Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Punk etc.

Bret never had the fortune to face all those guys, Taker and Shawn did. That’s the difference.
 

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Macho Man, and I'm not sure about the other 2, maybe Piper and most might not agree with this but for me IMO Sting.
That's a good 3. definitely an argument for those 3.

I'd put Macho Man, Kurt Angle and HHH. But Piper and Sting aren't far off, top 15 for sure.

HBK did Playgirl so he's probably pretty famous in the gay community.
THE GAEHHH COMMUNITY?!
 

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Discussion Starter #90
If you end all their careers at 97 or 99 when Bret ended his career, then you can say who was truly bigger. Taker and HBK got the advantage of wrestling for longer and had the WWE hype machine behind them.

Now imagine if Bret returned in 2002 same time as HBK. Who would be treated bigger? Hart. Bret would’ve had classics with Austin and Rock because he paved the way for them to succeed. Imagine Bret matches with Mysterio, Guerrero, Angle, Lesnar, Jericho, RVD, Benoit, so many names. He would’ve made everyone look like stars and have stellar matches. Now imagine Bret elevating younger talent like Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Punk etc.

Bret never had the fortune to face all those guys, Taker and Shawn did. That’s the difference.
You nailed it. You see even with the longevity HBK and Taker had since Bret retired, all of them are treated in the same tier. I think Taker than HBK should be ahead of Bret by this point.
 

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Contrary to what everyone believes, I honestly think Shawn's career prior to his comeback in 02, was more impactful. HBK didn't have the eye of the tiger look anymore (barring the return match against Hunter Hearst Helmsley). He was more of a role player who had some notable wrestlemania matches. Having said that what Shawn did prior to 02 surpasses Taker's legacy simply because in the last 8 years, Taker has taken a dump on everything he stood for.

The longevity factor might tilt this in favor of Taker/HBK as a lot of milennials would have grown up watching them instead. One cannot make an objective statement if you go by pure WWE propaganda.
 

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I just noticed that Cena is a Bigger name than Hart, and since Roman and Cena are in the same Tier Roman by default is a Bigger name than Bret.. Backed by statistical data that cannot be disputed or argued.. It goes to show Vince definitely should have chosen Luger.

I have respect for fans of the Hitman but It must Suck for Hart fans to lose arguments defending their idol all the time.. With that fact don't you guys feel you should maybe reconsider your chance and change your opinion on the guy to be more like us normal people?? Think about it. Being a fan of the guy is a no win situation.

Rookie of the year and the ones not for Bret are the only ones that make objective sense in this thread its not even funny
 

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The optimistic Asuka fan
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I remember watching Bret's documentary where he landed his rib on the barricade and he felt so pain and one of the audience was yelling at him about how fake it was and Bret was really pissed. I'm just saying that WWF was treated joke back then.
I don`t get your point. People took wrestling serious for ages and in the early 90s it was still working on a lot of people. Ofc some people expected something phony, but they didn`t know. People nowadays are so smart, because the internet told them. That is the only reason.
Meanwhile the companies are making a joke of themself, so like I said (once more): it is difficult to compare all that.
 

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LOL Mt Rushmore of what?
Pro wrestling, there's not even any argument you can come up with that those aren't the biggest stars, but I would love to hear it and who do you think is the Mt Rushmore. And don't give me your favorite wrestlers because that's ignorant it's not about who you like best it's not who's the best technical wrestlers it's who's the biggest stars. Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock is the correct answer and it's not even close.

I will laugh my ass off if you try to argue HBK.
 

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Pro wrestling, there's not even any argument you can come up with that those aren't the biggest stars, but I would love to hear it and who do you think is the Mt Rushmore. And don't give me your favorite wrestlers because that's ignorant it's not about who you like best it's not who's the best technical wrestlers it's who's the biggest stars. Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock is the correct answer and it's not even close.

I will laugh my ass off if you try to argue HBK.
You answered my question, fair enough. You based yours on biggest "star." If you said best promo I'd also accept.

Since I'm not a wrestling promoter, I don't care who drew X amount of Dollars. But The Rock will never be on my list of anything, except for funny 1 liners.
 

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You answered my question, fair enough. You based yours on biggest "star." If you said best promo I'd also accept.

Since I'm not a wrestling promoter, I don't care who drew X amount of Dollars. But The Rock will never be on my list of anything, except for funny 1 liners.
This thread is who is the biggest stars. It's not like the meaning of this thread is "has Taker and HBK surpassed Bret in technical wrestling" lol although HBK has had as many or more 5 star matches but that's not what this thread is about. I do respect good wrestling matches, but not what this thread is about.
 

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Waiting for Kawato
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Surpassed him how? As legendary names? Taker is obviously well beyond the other two in that department. As icons within the company they have both certainly surpassed Bret. I don't know that any of them are particular draws, Bret and Shawn certainly were not great successes in that department. As wrestlers? Neither of them are close to him.
 

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Impact and legacy wise
HBK >= Bret > Taker

Star value wise
Taker > Bret > HBK
 

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They both surpassed him a LONG time ago.

Nothing against Bret (I like Bret), but he's the least interesting of the three and his impact pales in comparision to their's.
 
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