[Ph3n0m]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

And Warrior probably could have surpassed Hogan but was held back by his firing and Vince being a asshole.

lmao. Seriously dude?

Warrior was HELD BACK??

He was a big, dumb lump of muscle that gassed himself out before he even locked up with his opponent - plus he was a horrible human being. If Warrior was even a half decent guy who wanted to learn and improve - then nothing would have stopped him.

In other words, to sort of paraphrase Mr McMahon himself - Warrior screwed Warrior.

I suppose I better chip in on the actual discussion too. I kind of think that yeah, this definitely has played on the popularity decrease. But this comes hand in hand with the brand split again too - with two rosters to fill, you have to spread the great guys out over the two shows - leaving HUGE rivalries few and far between on the two shows.

I'm not suggesting Batista is over to the point of guys like Austin and Rock - but the fans ate that guy up - imagine one roster with him at the height of his popularity and Cena at the height of his - and they finally meet on a collision course.

Might not be as big as Austin vs Rock or Hogan vs Rock - but for what we've had since 2004, it would still have been a big match up for the fans and increased interest if it happened between WM in 05 and the Summer of 06.

 

[The Caped Crusader]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

That is a fair point.

If you combine the 2005 roster, you have something deadly. Batista, Cena, Triple H, Eddie Guerrero, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, JBL and Kurt Angle were all main event talent. Then you had the upcoming main event talent like Edge, Orton, Rey and also the established veterans like Booker T, Big Show, Kane, Jericho.

If they had that roster combined, it would have made for awesome television. Lots of starpower.

I think they made a big mistake with moving Cena/Batista around in 2005. They should have kept Batista on Raw and Cena on Smackdown, only shifting the supporting players for them. Then in the 2006 draft after Wrestlemania, they should have brought Cena to Raw and shipped off Triple H to Smackdown (by then, both Cena and Batista would have had over a year to build a good run with their home audiences). Then you could build both Cena and Batista for a big clash at Wrestlemania 23 (provided both men got strong booking into Wrestlemania 22 and beyond). That would be a huge match.

Really, the timing of Cena/Batista was really messed up. That was their Rock/Austin for this generation and they waited on it far too long until they essentially missed the boat.

The hype levels for their encounter in 2006/2007 would be immense considering how strongly booked they were and people were still buzzing off the new era.

 

[Big Dog]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

Superman has Lex Luther, Batman has the Joker, every hero needs someone who can push them to the limit and sometimes actually succeed, Cena on the other hand has no one and probably never will.

Every time the WWE has the chance of making someone Cena's equal they veer off, Wade dominated Cena at the beginning he's probably the only one of all the new superstars to genuinely perform well and gain heat the old fashioned way, instead of ramming him down our throats like they did with Sheamus, who never really wins and ADR who lets be honest hasn't done anything massively special, they've just had him do the same promo every week and put peoples injuries down to him. Wade's feud with Cena via Orton was genuinely the most exciting feud of the last two years imo, yet instead of propelling Wade to stardom, they had Cena literally bury him and try to humiliate him.

The reason the WWE has been sucking is because it's so obvious that Cena is going to go over, there's no back and forth, the only way Cena ever loses is because he may get randomly screwed at no fault of his own and then he fades into the distance so he doesn't have to deal with the repercussions. It's this reason that people dislike Cena, he needs an equal but the WWE bookers don't realise it.

 

[wwefanatic89]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

Superman has Lex Luther, Batman has the Joker, every hero needs someone who can push them to the limit and sometimes actually succeed, Cena on the other hand has no one and probably never will.

Every time the WWE has the chance of making someone Cena's equal they veer off, Wade dominated Cena at the beginning he's probably the only one of all the new superstars to genuinely perform well and gain heat the old fashioned way, instead of ramming him down our throats like they did with Sheamus, who never really wins and ADR who lets be honest hasn't done anything massively special, they've just had him do the same promo every week and put peoples injuries down to him. Wade's feud with Cena via Orton was genuinely the most exciting feud of the last two years imo, yet instead of propelling Wade to stardom, they had Cena literally bury him and try to humiliate him.

The reason the WWE has been sucking is because it's so obvious that Cena is going to go over, there's no back and forth, the only way Cena ever loses is because he may get randomly screwed at no fault of his own and then he fades into the distance so he doesn't have to deal with the repercussions. It's this reason that people dislike Cena, he needs an equal but the WWE bookers don't realise it.

This. The Orton/Barrett feud was suppose to fuel both wrestlers to greater heights instead it was basically used to make Cena bigger than he already was which is a shame.

 

[monkeytilt]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

I think Cena was at his strongest and most over during his superman run. Not having an equal is cool to watch, like Hogan in his 4 year run and Taker with his WM streak, and gives the title prestige. The real problem is that there is 14 or 15 PPVs per year and Cena can only defend the title 2 or 3 times against each top contender before it won't sell. So the title gets held by someone in the 2nd tier of guys (below Cena) and who wants to watch title defenses between the #2 and #4 guy?

 

[dave 1981]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

Superman has Lex Luther, Batman has the Joker, every hero needs someone who can push them to the limit and sometimes actually succeed, Cena on the other hand has no one and probably never will.

Every time the WWE has the chance of making someone Cena's equal they veer off, Wade dominated Cena at the beginning he's probably the only one of all the new superstars to genuinely perform well and gain heat the old fashioned way, instead of ramming him down our throats like they did with Sheamus, who never really wins and ADR who lets be honest hasn't done anything massively special, they've just had him do the same promo every week and put peoples injuries down to him. Wade's feud with Cena via Orton was genuinely the most exciting feud of the last two years imo, yet instead of propelling Wade to stardom, they had Cena literally bury him and try to humiliate him.

The reason the WWE has been sucking is because it's so obvious that Cena is going to go over, there's no back and forth, the only way Cena ever loses is because he may get randomly screwed at no fault of his own and then he fades into the distance so he doesn't have to deal with the repercussions. It's this reason that people dislike Cena, he needs an equal but the WWE bookers don't realise it.

This is my point exactly as John Cena has simply never had an equal since mid 2005 with Batista but Batista lost that spot as soon as he was injured because he had lost momentum through that injury whereas John Cena went on to feud and go over Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and Triple H as well as having a career defining feud with Edge. As you stated every hero needs a villian to play off of and John Cena has never had that in his career and in reality WWE hasn't even really tried to create one either which is a HUGE shame as it would have made John Cena a much bigger star than he is already.

It's a shame that WWE just ended the feud between John Cena and Wade Barrett in the way they did as i believe Wade Barrett could have been that long term rival over time and i also thought the same when it looked like we were going to see Cena/Punk but WWE threw that one away for Orton/Punk. They have overdone Cena/Orton so much now that the fan's won't accept that feud anymore as seen with their reaction at The Royal Rumble when they had a staredown so that one is now a non starter and even if they had Batista return he is way behind John Cena as well now.

 

[D17]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

They've pushed Cena so far for so long that he won't have a genuine equal for years and years, untill he's no longer THEE man, WWE's own fault though. Seems WWE had yet another attempt of it which failed miserably in the Cena/Orton staredown at the Rumble which I can only describe in one picture...

 

[dave 1981]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

They've pushed Cena so far for so long that he won't have a genuine equal for years and years, untill he's no longer THEE man, WWE's own fault though. Seems WWE had yet another attempt of it which failed miserably in the Cena/Orton staredown at the Rumble which I can only describe in one picture...

I admittedly was always one of the people that believed Cena/Orton would go on to be for this era what Hogan/Andre, Michaels/Hart and Austin/Rock were for their own era but what happened at The Royal Rumble changed that forever and i honestly do not know if the feud between John Cena and Randy Orton can ever be done again now. What happened at The Royal Rumble as absolutely brutal and they say silence can be deafening but this was really uncomfortable to watch, i can imagine Vince McMahon was absolutely furious backstage but then it is down to him that Cena/Orton is now regarded as it is.

 

[CM4]

Re: Have ratings and buyrates gone backwards because John Cena has never had an equal

Well if anything didn't The Rock become a mega star without building him up?

- Aug-Nov 1998 he had an insane surge of popularity when WWE probably only thought of him as an upper-mid card tweener/heel.
- 1999 When he became as over as Austin he was fueding with Billy Gunn and British Bulldog.

I don't think WWE really intended for Rock to become Austin's equal if you look back, when Austin got hurt then they really built Rock and tried to build HHH, even though Rock, before Austin was out was one of the most over superstars of all time.

You're right, Rock wasn't supposed to be an equal to Austin.

The Rock became a megastar in the summer of 1999, he was a main eventer for like 6-7 months before then, but he was a heel.