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That last part threw me. He wanted a further four months of the ‘respect’ angle? Earlier in that package, he talks about a good booker knowing when to end an angle. There are certain things that TNA needed to accomplish with that storyline, none of which were accomplished after months of investment. Mostly, they had to elevate guys like Joe, Roode, Styles and Daniels. For one reason or another (lost sight of what they needed to do), they failed. There was no choice but to move forward on Jan 4th, particularly with the influx of new talent.
 

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Dutch was a fine booker, he actually helped a few divisions that Russo fucked over (ie: KO Division). So yeah, he did some silly shit when Jeff Jarrett was head booker, but at least he wouldn't have a storyline on Hall of Fame rings.
 

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Personally, I think we need some fresh minds injected into the creative process. Guys like Dutch, Russo, & even Cornette to a degree are of another time, and I think its time for somebody else to take the helm & insert a fresh take on things into the show.
 

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No. I rather did a Sarah Palin angle.

I don't know which influence he really had on the creative direction. But he didn't improve Jarretts role as a headbooker like many hoped when he was hired away from Puerto Rico in the first place,
nor was he the saviour of the KO division (when he took over a few months after the reboot, the KO division became WORSE for the first time, even though he DID do a better job than the people after him ... this terrible Taylor Wilde run happened on his watch, though),
nor was TNA -E-V-E-R- on the right way of creating, elevating, etc. their home grown talent. Like eyebrowmorroco said, the whole "respect" storyline was a disastre. It only elevated the WWE guys and made new TNA watchers think, AJ, Joe, Daniels, etc. are just mid carders, who will never be as good as WWE talent. In the big picture the storyline was worse than ANYTHING stupid Vince Russo has ever done in TNA and WCW.

Hence, I'm not a fan of Mantell and generally critical towards all these pro wrestling "expertes" on the inside, who influenced TNA without any accomplishment.
 

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Personally, I think we need some fresh minds injected into the creative process. Guys like Dutch, Russo, & even Cornette to a degree are of another time, and I think its time for somebody else to take the helm & insert a fresh take on things into the show.
Dixie's had many opportunities to replace Russo, she just fucked up on every one.
 

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Just confirms the awful booking of Russo even more. I don't know how many people it will take to convince people this guy is horrible. No value in him at all.
 

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Dutch was a fine booker, he actually helped a few divisions that Russo fucked over (ie: KO Division). So yeah, he did some silly shit when Jeff Jarrett was head booker, but at least he wouldn't have a storyline on Hall of Fame rings.
what u on about? :lmao

Mantell was utter shite just like Russo.

First of all, under Mantell we had stupid ideas like a last man standing match in which you had to pin someone first(I mean wtf?), MEM completley dominating Impact, and finally Sting + Kurt Angle dominating the World Heavyweight division.

Even though Russo is hardly any better, at least he gave some fresh faces a run with the title/pushes - Like AJ Styles, Desmond Wolfe (before Hogan/Bischoff arrived), MCMG etc...
 

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Mantell was much, much, much worse than Russo. Not sure why Russo gets so much hate, he puts out an interesting product compared to the crap TNA was putting out in 2007-2008.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Mantell was much, much, much worse than Russo. Not sure why Russo gets so much hate, he puts out an interesting product compared to the crap TNA was putting out in 2007-2008.
You mean the 07-08 time frame when Vince Russo was on creative and his finger prints were all over the show.

I'm not even crapping on that time period as I found the last three months of 07 to be very entertaining, plus 08 had that Joe-Angle build that drew to my knowledge TNA's highest paying domestic live gate.

As for why Russo get's so much hate, listen I use to be a big Russo supporter back when I believed Dutch and Jeff were holding back Russo's creativity but the truth is Russo had imput and recently I feel Russo's been exposed as being a one trick pony and for whatever positive he brings it's not worth all the negatives. He does more harm to a product than good and in truth wrestling in general has moved beyond his vision and he's stuck in the past.

Another thing, I don't know why people get pissed at the change to the Last Man Standing match.

All they did was apply Texas Death Match rules to the Last Man Standing, what's the big deal? People bitch that TNA does nothing but copy WWE and when they go in their own direction on a match type they get bitched at for it; I don't get it.

As far as Dutch as a booker; The guy drew big money in PR and won WO awards for best booker in the past and other wrestlers have put him over for having a good mind for being a good booker, so as far as TNA's mistakes go I give the guy the benefit of the doubt more so than Russo now.
 

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Dutch always had Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo to deal with. We never seen a 100% Dutch product, that being said I don't like Dutch that much either. I think Dusty and D'Amore are the best head creative guys in TNA history. Dusty bad wasn't terrible and he came up with with a lot of great ideas and push the X division and tag titles hard.

I used to be a Russo supporter, until he killed WCW. Yes, I said it. WCW lost all it's true essence under Russo.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Dutch always had Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo to deal with. We never seen a 100% Dutch product, that being said I don't like Dutch that much either. I think Dusty and D'Amore are the best head creative guys in TNA history. Dusty bad wasn't terrible and he came up with with a lot of great ideas and push the X division and tag titles hard.

I used to be a Russo supporter, until he killed WCW. Yes, I said it. WCW lost all it's true essence under Russo.
I see your point on Russo-WCW; I still lay the final blame on Jamie Keller for cancelling WCW programming but your right Russo never under stood the different wrestling fans want different things.

If the WCW audience wanted to watch a WWE style show they would have been watching Raw, they watched Nitro good or bad because they wanted something different as firther evidenced that once WCW went under the WWF didn't gain those viewers those viewers just dissappeared.

You could say the same thing about TNA; the fans want an alternative and he gives them more sports entertainment. If fans wanted that type of product they have Raw and Smackdown who probably do it better with higher production values and a bigger budget.

That's why Russo's not a great booker because he's unable to listen to his audience and really give them what they want, he's only able to give them what he wants and book what he knows which is a model 10 years past it's prime.

I agree with you on D'Amore, and Dusty too to a degree; Dusty for whatever faults he had still presented solid and in some cases above average wrestling and had a higher turnover rate for PPV buys which is mind boggling considering how limited TNA's audience was as compared to now.

The thing that's crazy is Dusty Rhodes only survives 6 months on TNA creative but Vince Russo survives 4 years. The guys like a cockaroach he just won't go away.
 

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You mean the 07-08 time frame when Vince Russo was on creative and his finger prints were all over the show.

I'm not even crapping on that time period as I found the last three months of 07 to be very entertaining, plus 08 had that Joe-Angle build that drew to my knowledge TNA's highest paying domestic live gate.

As for why Russo get's so much hate, listen I use to be a big Russo supporter back when I believed Dutch and Jeff were holding back Russo's creativity but the truth is Russo had imput and recently I feel Russo's been exposed as being a one trick pony and for whatever positive he brings it's not worth all the negatives. He does more harm to a product than good and in truth wrestling in general has moved beyond his vision and he's stuck in the past.

Another thing, I don't know why people get pissed at the change to the Last Man Standing match.

All they did was apply Texas Death Match rules to the Last Man Standing, what's the big deal? People bitch that TNA does nothing but copy WWE and when they go in their own direction on a match type they get bitched at for it; I don't get it.

As far as Dutch as a booker; The guy drew big money in PR and won WO awards for best booker in the past and other wrestlers have put him over for having a good mind for being a good booker, so as far as TNA's mistakes go I give the guy the benefit of the doubt more so than Russo now.
So did Mike Tenay and yet he sucks...
 

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Mantell was much, much, much worse than Russo. Not sure why Russo gets so much hate, he puts out an interesting product compared to the crap TNA was putting out in 2007-2008.
Except Russo was there too so he was part of the team that made that "crap" in 07 & 08. Didn't have a problem with Dutch being fired, but did have one with Russo not following him out the door.
 

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I've been waiting for years for Russo to get fired. I'm pretty sure Bischoff and Hogan is counting the days secretly.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So did Mike Tenay and yet he sucks...
Tenay actually was a good announcer, He's more of a sports type announcer.

He can call the moves and get excited for a great match but the story telling and acting and him being scripted hinders him.

If anyone watches the TNA weekly PPV's or the FSN era or when TNA first got on Spike; Tenay was always good to solid.

It's when TNA left behind the more wrestling less talk philosophy (one of the actual tag lines of their first Spike TV commercial, how things have changed for the worse) and adopted a more entertainment based approach that Tenay started to falter.

Back to Dutch, I'm not trying to make Dutch out to be some type of wrestling savior; he was part of team that produced some crappy product and that's on him as much as RUSSO and Jeff Jarrett.

I just give the guy the benefit of the doubt somewhat because there's a reason Paul Heyman wants nothing to do with a Vince Russo influenced creative team.

It doesn't matter how small his contributions or how well aimed his intentions, the least little thing the guy does could do damage.

He just honestly doesn't see the difference between a good idea and a bad idea and is unable to edit himself.
 
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