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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not bashing Cena as a real life person, I appreciate his work. What I don't like is the writing. Hear me out here, this isn't a typical 'Cena has 5 moves' topic.

WWE is PG, thus, they want to portray John Cena as a squeaky clean family friendly babyface who beats the bad guys and isn't afraid of anything. But in his feuds if you think about it from a neutral standpoint, he is one of the more heelish, dishonest babyfaces of our time, but he gets cheered for it because he's a good guy. This wouldn't be a problem if he were an anti-hero like Stone Cold, but he's not. He's meant to be family friendly. This sends a mixed message.

One of the first examples of this was when John Cena procured his championship match at WrestleMania XXV. In order to insert himself in the match, Cena obtained footage of Vickie having an affair with the Big Show, and blackmailed Vickie into adding him into the match between Edge and Big Show. After Vickie agreed, Cena proceeded to show the footage anyway. If Cena was not the babyface, this would clearly be an utterly despicable move...sure, Vickie as a heel may have deserved to have her affair revealed, but the way Cena used that information to his advantage, and then revealing it anyway, sends a rather poor message that 'blackmail is okay'. Am I really supposed to cheer this guy?

Then comes the Cena vs Batista feud. There were 2 things that Cena did that I feel disagree with his face persona. The first being his Last Man Standing match with Batista. Neither man would be knocked down for a 10 count, so what does John Cena do? He duct-tapes Batista to the post, making it so he can't physically get up and can't answer the 10 count. The whole point of the match is to -beat- your opponent so they can't stand up. Winning like that via a technicality is very at odds with his 'never give up, never say die' attitude, but he is cheered for it by default because surprise, he's the babyface. I would expect that sort of thing from a chickenshit heel, and it would have been a great move. But alas, we get more dishonesty from Cena.

That doesn't end the problems with the feud though. At the end of the Cena vs Batista feud, he threatens to AA Batista off of a vehicle through the stage if he doesn't quit. Batista quits....and is then thrown anyway, putting him in a wheelchair and resulting in him quitting the WWE. Once again, Cena does the heel thing, this time going beyond merely revenge and presumably ending someone's career.

The most recent and heinous example is in the Nexus feud. Cena is either free or fired at Survivor Series, and he choose to be fired. You would think then, that he would honor that stipulation, Cena saying he would be a man of his word, and he actually bids farewell to the WWE in a heartfelt speech...which he then takes a crap on later when he repeatedly runs in and attacks Nexus. No longer even being an employee of the company, anyone else would be arrested, but he gets, yet again, a free pass because he's a face. He pretty much laughs off the fired stipulation and shows up on the show every night to assault Nexus members, promising to stop the attacks if he's hired back.

So he's hired back....and proceeds to attack every member of Nexus at TLC, and then not only beat Wade pillar to post in the match, but proceeds to assault him after the match. As a person, does Wade deserve it? Maybe so. But it was unnecessary, and Cena once again broke his word and didn't just go after him, but the rest of Nexus.

This may seem uptight to you. You may say I'm looking too much into things. But these are things that occurred to me while watching. I'm not overanalysing, I don't feel. I feel these are very valid observations of the way Cena's character has been written, and for a family friendly character, he is seen doing bad things in 'revenge' to heels that are at odds with his characters, and sends an unfriendly message to the kids watching. I wanted to provide a different perspective.

And I don't hate Cena as a person or even a wrestler. I hate the people that are writing him, and the WWE for portraying him as a man who can do no wrong, when in reality, his character is full of holes because of how they are writing him.

Does anyone else feel this way? Please discuss, and please no flames for me actually having an opinion on wrestling.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

I was all set to reply to this with "look at Stone Cold" but after reading this through, I heartily agree. On the other hand, its quite a lot of backstory for the time they actually decide to turn him heel.

The only major objection I had to those storylines was the Nexus firing one. Mick Foley once wrote that "firing matches" had losers with an average return to work time of about 3 weeks. Cena reduced that to 1 day. An excellent promo on his leaving night, which actually was one of the best things he could have done to make sure of an incredible pop with a later return, then he basically ignores the fact he is fired, as does stadium security and law enforcement. That being said, Dropping Wade Barrett onto 6 chairs is a promising sign that the PG era is getting pushed aside now that Linda McMahon isnt trying to get elected.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Cena just cant win

Gets shit for being squeaky clean

gets shit for having an edge
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

You're reading into this a huge amount but you're forgetting one factor. He's not being cheered simply because he's the babyface. If he did any of these things to another face then he would be boo'd, it's all down to karma.

In all of these instances, he was facing people who were assholes. Vicky and Edge abused their power, Batista was a bully who basically cheated to win the Title, Wade started the Nexus who are the most heel-orientated group of the past five years when you think about all the gang attacks.

Cena was getting "extreme revenge" in these ways because if you beat these guys fairly, it wouldn't stop them. If you pin heels, they don't just sit there and take it. Cena effectively ended the Nexus last night via brute force and chairs. Now considering Nexus weren't exactly going to go face any time soon, there would be no other way that Cena on his own could end the Nexus and therefore end all the bad crap they've been doing. Cena was violent with the chairs, yes, but for the right reasons.

If you're gonna' say "Well it teaches kids to be violent, cheat, blackmail" etc then you need to look closer at the wrestling business, because wrestling also teaches people to bury their siblings alive, .... corpses, put pensioners through tables etc. Wrestling is wrestling, it shouldn't be applied to real life and if any kid does, then you can't blame that on wrestling when kids play video games where you shoot each other for achievements. (Nothing against those games, just saying that wrestling is hardly the worst moral guide ever).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

But you're missing the point. The idea is it's hypocritical and contrary to Cena's character. Cena should be above those things, yet he does it because they 'have it coming'. It's true wrestling is no moral guide, but from a writing standpoint it's just full of holes and I don't like it.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Cena is good. End of story. So many people want cena out of wrestling. Cena is the best thing wwe has going right now. Until they push morrison or some other guys cena remains the closest thing we wrestling fans have compared to the rock, austin, hbk star power. Cenas wrestlemania matches are great. Especialy wm 22 and 23. This thread is stupid. Its just another way to discredit john cena doing anything good.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

The whole concept of wrestling is that adults solve their problems by violence. I don't think it sets an example and I don't want it to.

Cena is not perfect and I don't think his character was meant to be. His character is one who feeds off the energy from the fans whether it's positive or negative. He's not a Hogan, his gimmick doesn't allow him to be and when they tried to make him perfect, rule abiding and fair in 2005, it turned a lot of fans against him. Now, when Cena is wronged, he goes to extremes to get revenge.

Compared to other babyface characters like Edge, Orton, Morrison and Triple H who have retained quite a few of their heel mannerisms while becoming crowd friendly, Cena is more upstanding and traditionally heroic as the face of the company. But if Cena just pinned Barrett or Batista, it would be a bit of a damp squib. The concept of wrestling is that the bad guy does horrible things to the good guy and the kids want to see the bad guy get his arse kicked. And that's what happened with Barrett, albeit unrealistically with the chairs falling!
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Cena is good. End of story. So many people want cena out of wrestling. Cena is the best thing wwe has going right now. Until they push morrison or some other guys cena remains the closest thing we wrestling fans have compared to the rock, austin, hbk star power. Cenas wrestlemania matches are great. Especialy wm 22 and 23. This threads line of thought is just another way to discredit john cena doing anything good.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

But you're missing the point. The idea is it's hypocritical and contrary to Cena's character. Cena should be above those things, yet he does it because they 'have it coming'. It's true wrestling is no moral guide, but from a writing standpoint it's just full of holes and I don't like it.
I see your point in the OP, these actions would be fine for Orton (or Austin, Rock, Mankind, Triple H when he's a face, basically any top face from the past 10-15 years) but they don't mesh with Cena's persona which isn't exactly and ends justify the means type.

I suppose if you wanted to credit the creative team with some intelligence you could try to make the case that they're covering their backs for an eventual heel turn but let's face, there isn't a great deal of evidence to suggest they have any so that rather goes out of the window.

I don't really know what the answer is, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

I agree with you and Peepoholic makes a good point; if any other baby-face had done it, it really wouldn't have been a big deal, but Cena claims to have such high morals and whatnot that doing heel-ish things doesn't really fit his character. I haven't really even noticed it until you pointed it out though so I don't think it is a huge deal (expect what he did to the Nexus members, that was just stupid), but it could be a neat thing for a heel to pick him apart with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Cena is good. End of story. So many people want cena out of wrestling. Cena is the best thing wwe has going right now. Until they push morrison or some other guys cena remains the closest thing we wrestling fans have compared to the rock, austin, hbk star power. Cenas wrestlemania matches are great. Especialy wm 22 and 23. This threads line of thought is just another way to discredit john cena doing anything good.
Where in the thread opening post did I ever discredit Cena's wrestling? I literally said I don't dislike Cena as a man or a wrestler (even though I do have some criticisms, that's another story), I only said I hated how they booked the guy.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

I understand what you're saying. To you, Cena is supposed to be the Hogan-esque baby-face and yet, if you look at his actions on paper, he's more along the lines of a Stone Cold. Randy Orton was supposed to be the "cool" anti-hero face, but Cena clearly eclipses him in that department, at least for the past few months.

All in all, I think it just comes down to how you perceive that Cena is supposed to be, however. Cena has been the vindictive, aggressive and generally rule-breaking kind of face for a good year from what I can remember. In that time, he's getting huge pops from women, children and believe it or not, men.

I think what confuses people is that he has that all-American, Clark Kent kind of look. Austin looked like a badass, so his actions suited his look. The same can be said about Randy Orton. It's kind of like Cena's Batman without the costume. If you look at Bruce Wayne, he has the same kind of "good guy" look, but when he's in costume, he's kicking ass with vengeance in his heart. Cena's look doesn't really suit his character's actions and personality sometimes, bottom line.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

this isn't a new development for cena, cena has always been willing to go thug on particular heels that piss him off

JBL, Umaga, Kahli, Jericho, Edge [Especially Edge] remember what he did to them?

cena whooping the hell out of a heel that got on his bad side is not new development
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Where in the thread opening post did I ever discredit Cena's wrestling? I literally said I don't dislike Cena as a man or a wrestler (even though I do have some criticisms, that's another story), I only said I hated how they booked the guy.
Good point I just overreacted. I'm just a diehard hardcore wrestling fan and for cenas entire career from other wrestling forums to friends I've heard nothing but how bad cena is and its irritating.

I think the reason cena is doing stuff against his persona is because vince is trying to make cena acceptable to a wider range of fans plus referring to the nexus storyline I think wwe is slowly going away from pg. The tlc ppv was violent which I loved
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

The caution sign for this thread is unwarranted.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Cena is good. End of story. So many people want cena out of wrestling. Cena is the best thing wwe has going right now.
Although I like Cena, you are soooo wrong here that you're almost right again.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Although I like Cena, you are soooo wrong here that you're almost right again.
You paraphrased my quote. if they pushed morrison or del rio I think we could have someone bigger but until then cena is the best thing wwe has right now. He gets the most out of the audience with cheers and boos. That tells a lot.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

Whether face or heel a wrestler will do anything in a match to win, get an advantage, or embarrass their heel counterparts. Guys like HBK and Eddie did this all the time while they were faces. In fact if you look at the whole HBK vs Jericho feud of 2008, this was the reasoning behind the whole feud, HBK did exactly what heels do, he cheated, faked injures, and the crowd still cheered him.

So Cena doing heelish things while being a face and cheered isn't farfetched, it's things normal people would do anyway, hitting the FU on Batista a guy who stole your WWE championship, beat you down physically and verbally over a 4 month period, and you had a chance at revenge, you would take it to, the fans understand that which is why they cheer. Unless Cena directed those heeling tactics towards babyfaces and turned it up a notch, like beating the hell outta Evan Bourne with a steel chair for 5 min, then Cena will be cheered because he is getting revenge and justice.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

I tend not to complicate things like OP.
 

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Re: From Another Perspective: As a clean babyface, Cena is very heelish and dishonest

I actually I like a lot of people have notice this, I wish the wwe did a program where a heel tells cena he isnt so different than him, and then goes on to point how cena is a big hypocrite.
This last week on raw cena came out and said that he was a man of his WORD. That when he lost his match he left? really? u mean u left home and came back next week.
 
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