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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Live reactions to Jericho/HHH going last over Rock/Hogan from Official Wrestlemania 18 thread - The one and only wrestle mania 18 thread

Everyone basically thought Rock/Hogan was going last since it was the main event, the headline featured on every marketing poster, commercial, merchandise, etc,

Everyone expected Rock/Hogan to go last with Triple H getting screwed by Stephanie since they normally didn't have two big babyface wins on same night during the attitude era.

"That means Hogan is going over. Just like I predicted. And HHH will be winning the WWF Title. "
- The one and only wrestle mania 18 thread

WTF?!?!? Rock-Hogan is next????? The biggest match in history (the WWF's words, not mine) shouldn't be third from the top. What a bunch of idiots. Hogan wins. No doubt in my mind. HHH wins. No doubt.
- The one and only wrestle mania 18 thread

Hogan vs. Rock is before the women's match? What in the heIl is going on here? Women's match must have been cut from the show.
- The one and only wrestle mania 18 thread

SON OF A BITCH.

Hogan and HHH will both win?

Showcase of the immortals my ass.

Showcase of the backstage politicians is more like it.
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36247


Don't be so sure goodhelmet. Remember the ending to Wrestlemania IX? We could be seeing it again with Jericho in Yoko's spot.
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36248

I agree. The booking of the Hogan/Rock match is weird. Why put the womens match ahead of it? Hogan/Rock should of gone last after the way the WWF hyped it.
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36249

Thank you Rasmus....you found something worse than the WWF ending the biggest show of the year with an unover...out of shape...####### winning the belt...cause you know...at least Hogan is over (unlike someone else...who will remain nameless)
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36251

I'm telling you, if the Women's match is after the biggest match in the history of Wrestling, it has to turn out to be a porno. Hahaha. There's just no other way justifying it. Especially if everyone (including Taker Hogan and Austin, 3 guys who argue their spot on the card everyday) can be talked into letting it go that high.
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36252

I was really enjoying WrestleMania until I realized that HHH was going to END the show with his win.
- https://forums.thesmartmarks.com/to...mania-18-thread/?do=findComment&comment=36254




Triple H has claimed in WWE documentaries that he didn't want to go last and even insisted on not going last but was told by management that the world title has to go last:

This is disproven and contradicted by the following facts:

1, Many main events closed the show over the world title, such as Wrestlemania 8 with Hogan/Sid, Wrestlemania 11 Bam Bam Bigelow/Lawrence Taylor, Hart/Bulldog Summerslam 1992.

2, By every report Vince Mcmahon was disappointed in Chris Jericho was world champion, there's no way he would want that match to go last over Rock/Hogan, likely Triple H and Stephanie who were writing the show insisted.

3. Mike Chioda says it was Triple H who insisted and didn't want to give up last match spot - https://itrwrestling.com/news/tripl...he-main-event-mike-chioda-on-wrestlemania-x8/

4, Chris Jericho corroborates his account by stating the same, Triple H wanted to go last -

This was surely a sign of things to come with Triple H for the Ruthless Aggression starting late that year with the Reign of Terror.
 

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Triple h himself said that the world title should go on last, in a documentary he made in 2002. Of course, in his 2007 doc he completely spun it and said that Rock/Hogan needed to go on last.. lol

It didn't matter anyway. The people knew that Rock/Hogan was the real main event, if you notice in the HHH/Jericho match, a lot of fans left already
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Rock/Hogan should've went last.

Triple H turns heel, swerve, leaves with Stephanie, Toronto takes Jericho side. Triple H wasn't working as a face and Jericho wasn't working as a heel.
 

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Rock/Hogan should've went last.

Triple H turns heel, swerve, leaves with Stephanie, Toronto takes Jericho side. Triple H wasn't working as a face and Jericho wasn't working as a heel.
I'll one up you! Jericho should NOT have been champion to begin with.

What was the WWF thinking when they had AUSTIN, ROCK, HOGAN on the card???

I know the argument back then was that Jericho could benefit from being the first ever undisputed world champion of pro wrestling, but the fans weren't buying it when you got THE GOATS on the card who could still go. I understand the hesitation at the time with Hogan's ability in the ring, but WWE was nonsensical having Jericho get that belt in December with Hogan and NWO coming in.

He was doomed for failure and I actually think Vince was not joking when he said the business was going downhill with Jericho as champion when he told Taker that lol beforehand.
 

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I'll one up you! Jericho should NOT have been champion to begin with.

What was the WWF thinking when they had AUSTIN, ROCK, HOGAN on the card???
Three reasons:

1. Austin turning babyface after he got the news that Rock was working Hogan at Mania, since the original was Austin/Rock III for the belt.

2. With Canada being the host of Wm 18, they might've thought that Jericho would draw bigger numbers for that event.

3. Neither Rock, Angle, or Austin needed the belt, they were all made guys.




IMO, it should've been either Angle/HHH or Austin/HHH.
 

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Three reasons:

1. Austin turning babyface after he got the news that Rock was working Hogan at Mania, since the original was Austin/Rock III for the belt.

2. With Canada being the host of Wm 18, they might've thought that Jericho would draw bigger numbers for that event.

3. Neither Rock, Angle, or Austin needed the belt, they were all made guys.




IMO, it should've been either Angle/HHH or Austin/HHH.
The thing is I think Jericho was perhaps the start of WWE forcing things in the main event. Sure, Rock, Angle, and Austin didn't need the belt being over, but WWE screwing up another historic storyline and moment with the first ever undisputed champion goes along with the Invasion angle.

It didn't make sense for Jericho to get the belt. After years of fans comparing WCW/NWA champions to WWF champions Jericho getting the spot as champion of champions was anti-climatic.



That is why Vince Mmcahon's comment to Taker had a shred of truth to it and the mainstream audience knew it too.

They should have capped off everything with Austin or Rock being the undisputed champion and then Hogan comes back to challenge them of that claim. It was an easy angle/promotion. That was more likely what would have happened back in the days going with the sporting element of it.

Jericho got the title to try to get him over when the champions should be over which is why he is champion unless it was a transitional role. I get HHH was probably seen as someone who could have been seen as the long game, but it goes back to what I said above. The fans were not buying it and it was clear as day with that dead crowd in the main event of WM 18. The same crowd that helped make one of the greatest matches electric a few matches beforehand.

It was similar to Vince forcing Roman before the right time when fans were not going to buy him beating Lesnar which is why Vince made the change at WM 31. Jericho was put into the same position and the company knew by December Hogan and NWO were coming in.

Austin/HHH or Angle/HHH would have seen the same fate though. They needed Hogan, Rock, Austin with any variation as the title match. Hogan came back and was actually the disputable WCW champion that never lost the belt.
 

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The thing is I think Jericho was perhaps the start of WWE forcing things in the main event. Sure, Rock, Angle, and Austin didn't need the belt being over, but WWE screwing up another historic storyline and moment with the first ever undisputed champion goes along with the Invasion angle.


That is why Vince Mmcahon's comment to Taker had a shred of truth to it and the mainstream audience knew it too.

They should have capped off everything with Austin or Rock being the undisputed champion and then Hogan comes back to challenge them of that claim. It was an easy angle/promotion. That was more likely what would have happened back in the days going with the sporting element of it.

Jericho got the title to try to get him over when the champions should be over which is why he is champion unless it was a transitional role. I get HHH was probably seen as someone who could have been seen as the long game, but it goes back to what I said above. The fans were not buying it and it was clear as day with that dead crowd in the main event of WM 18. The same crowd that helped make one of the greatest matches electric a few matches beforehand.
I think the aim was to create a double or triple main-event. A Hogan/Rock or a Hogan/Austin match don't need a title, so why waste the belt on a mega match when you can use it to elevate another match, like HHH/Jericho.

The Jericho push came a year too late. It should've happened in early 2000, when the main-event scene wasn't that great. The Big Show push should've been given to Jericho.
 

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I think the aim was to create a double or triple main-event. A Hogan/Rock or a Hogan/Austin match don't need a title, so why waste the belt on a mega match when you can use it to elevate another match, like HHH/Jericho.

The Jericho push came a year too late. It should've happened in early 2000, when the main-event scene wasn't that great. The Big Show push should've been given to Jericho.
I agree but trying to manufacture a title match over it for the sake of trying to force someone into the role doesn't help either. The fans see through it.

It's like Hogan vs Warrior not needing the title at WM 6, but the people knew those two were the real champions.

With 2002 booking Hogan and Warrior would be in Hogan vs Rock's spot, while trying to have Jake The Snake vs Million Dollar Man as the title match because technically that on paper looks to be the better workrate match. Try to make Jake into a main event star with the title around that time would also give the same results as Jericho being forced with the title.

An event like WrestleMania is not the time to use the titles to get people over that aren't really at that level. You end up with uninterested audiences in hotbed cities like Toronto doing the wave or bored for the obvious spot of HHH finisher on Steph or something.

The same thing with WM 25, you put HHH and Orton in the title match after knowing full well Taker and HBK would by far steal the show. The title and the participants end up boring the audience and it makes the title seem like a backdrop in a match that isn't really seen by the mainstream as the real championship match at the event.

They started doing this kind of booking and use that philosophy exactly the same time period HHH started to come into power. That is not an accident or fluke.

At WM 17 you had Rock vs Austin and HHH knew damn well to leave that alone. Rock and Austin didn't need the title (yet the storyline made it seem necessary and in truth it was) there either and they could have ran with HHH/Taker, but they didn't. The reason being the championship should be in the all-star match to keep the prestige of the title and event in tact.

You're correct with 2000, Jericho being champion that year might have gone over better with the masses due to HHH's heel heat at the time with fans just wanting someone to beat him.

In late 2001, no one was going to care for Jericho beating Rock and Austin or believe it either. The dynamic had changed.
 

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I agree but trying to manufacture a title match over it for the sake of trying to force someone into the role doesn't help either. The fans see through it.

It's like Hogan vs Warrior not needing the title at WM 6, but the people knew those two were the real champions.

With 2002 booking Hogan and Warrior would be in Hogan vs Rock's spot, while trying to have Jake The Snake vs Million Dollar Man as the title match because technically that on paper looks to be the better workrate match. Try to make Jake into a main event star with the title around that time would also give the same results as Jericho being forced with the title.

An event like WrestleMania is not the time to use the titles to get people over that aren't really at that level. You end up with uninterested audiences in hotbed cities like Toronto doing the wave or bored for the obvious spot of HHH finisher on Steph or something.
To be fair, the way Jericho was booked leading up WM 18 was disastrous. They had him carrying Stephanie's bags and scooping dog poop,...it was HHH vs Stephanie, with Jericho as the third wheel. Steph and Jericho joining forces is like Austin and McMahon becoming besties, it didn't make sense creatively. Plus, even though Jericho was the champion, the nWo's arrival made him an afterthought.
 

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And they ain’t deliver and that’s not to disrespect hhh or Jericho but they didn’t.
 

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Even Jericho thought that Rock/Hogan should have gone on last because there was no way he and HHH could match the hype. But Hunter wanted the world title match to go on last.
 

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To be fair, the way Jericho was booked leading up WM 18 was disastrous. They had him carrying Stephanie's bags and scooping dog poop,...it was HHH vs Stephanie, with Jericho as the third wheel. Steph and Jericho joining forces is like Austin and McMahon becoming besties, it didn't make sense creatively. Plus, even though Jericho was the champion, the nWo's arrival made him an afterthought.
All true which goes to show how inept the booking and nepotism ruined the main event of WM 18. They deserved to get that dead crowd reaction. It showed Vince did think less of Jericho carrying his top belt which he joked to Taker about lol.

They also overestimated how much of a babyface HHH would be too. He was not like Rock who could turn crap into gold if given crap to work with. It all goes back to the WWE mishandling the title by giving it to Jericho to begin with. HHH being thrust into the top babyface role was misguided too when you still got Rock and Austin.

They mistook fans respecting HHH fighting to end a match injured to the mainstream wanting him as the new babyface over Rock and Austin. Horrible miscalculation on their part and they were banking on it over actual any heat Jericho had. IMO, they played that whole angle wrong. They had the whole thing where Jericho could have been the aggressor bragging about being tougher than HHH or ruining the tag team because he was the weak link.

They didn't plan on making Jericho actually be over which is why it is a bad move putting that undisputed accolade on him. It made the whole thing anti-climatic.
 
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