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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First off, I am a huge fan of Jinder and think he completely deserves his position based on talent.

But based on booking, a month ago he was the lowest of jobbers, and almost no one cared about him (because they werent given a reason to).

Now, with Roman the main thing his fans say about him to act like he deserves his position is to say "Look, he gets reactions!", "People can't stop talking about him!","He can get huge reactions just by standing in the ring and not saying a word!".

They use this as a basis to say he deserves his position because he can generate these reactions. Which the counter argument would be that ANYONE on the roster can get these reactions if they were given his push. Which his fans would obviously deny.

Now, it seems that argument has been proven correct. We are seeing a guy who basically a bottom tier jobber getting big reactions in his matches and being the most talked about wrestler on the internet, and he has only been getting pushed for a month.

Imagine the reactions if Jinder main evented 3 consecutive Wrestlemania's, dominated 3 consecutive Royal Rumbles and retired the Undertaker? Exactly. They could even turn Jinder face and he would be the top merch seller because of the kids and the people who believe in kayfabe.

One of the great thing to come out of this Jinder push is that it completely kills all arguments of Reigns getting reactions because of his talent, and that it is 100% his booking. That "He deserves to be the face because he gets the most reactions" argument is well and truly dead.
 

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It's not just the fact that he was a jobber. It's because he emphasizes all the traits a large portion of smarks despise. Big muscles, his look, the fact that he doesn't work a style with lots of agility/flips/dives, his old school type of appeal, a foreigner gimmick, etc. These are all things modern day smarks hate but it's getting him massive heat and it works.
 

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Actually, thats still inconclusive. Are you sure if they turned Jinder face he would be the top merch seller? Theres more to being a top face then being pushed. Its also about marketability and Roman Reigns has a 100 times more marketability as a face than Jinder Mahal.

There is a lot more to overpushing someone and getting them a reaction. Marketability, Legitimacy, Talent all play a part. You cannot just push anyone to the moon and expect him to get cheered by the kids even as a face. Like I said, Jinder just doesn't have the marketability with kids to garner the same popularity Reigns has.

Basically, all being overpushed does is guarantee a reaction. Its up to the talent and the bookers to manipulate that reaction into something desirable such as a face reaction and grow that reaction.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Actually, thats still inconclusive. Are you sure if they turned Jinder face he would be the top merch seller? Theres more to being a top face then being pushed. Its also about marketability and Roman Reigns has a 100 times more marketability as a face than Jinder Mahal.

There is a lot more to overpushing someone and getting them a reaction. Marketability, Legitimacy, Talent all play a part. You cannot just push anyone to the moon and expect him to get cheered by the kids even as a face. Like I said, Jinder just doesn't have the marketability with kids to garner the same popularity Reigns has.

Basically, all being overpushed does is guarantee a reaction. Its up to the talent and the bookers to manipulate that reaction into something desirable such as a face reaction and grow that reaction.
Not sure you get how kids work. Push anyone as a superhero of WWE that defeats all the villains, and the kids will be their fans. There is literally no more than that. They believe wrestling is real and just want the good guy to beat the bad guy. Put a vest on Jinder and have him defeat all the bad guys and the kids will buy his merch in droves.
 

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Unless Jinder starts selling the amount of merch Reigns does than no it does not prove your theory right. And Jinder has only got a reaction 1 night when they were in Chicago mind you. I have a feeling Jinder was just getting a reaction simply because people hated Ortons. Lets see if the reactions keep happening from here on out.
 

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Not sure you get how kids work. Push anyone as a superhero of WWE that defeats all the villains, and the kids will be their fans. There is literally no more than that. They believe wrestling is real and just want the good guy to beat the bad guy. Put a vest on Jinder and have him defeat all the bad guys and the kids will buy his merch in droves.
Doubt it, good guys still have to look cool and like good guys. Hulk Hogan had that. Roman Reigns has that. I don't think Jinder has it. You'd still get a face reaction, but no kid is going to look at Jinder and is going to think he looks more cool than Roman.

I think you're underestimating kids here. They are simple minded but they are not that simple minded.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Doubt it, good guys still have to look cool and like good guys. Hulk Hogan had that. Roman Reigns has that. I don't think Jinder has it. You'd still get a face reaction, but no kid is going to look at Jinder and is going to think he looks more cool than Roman.

I think you're underestimating kids here. They are simple minded but they are not that simple minded.
Hulk Hogan did not look cool at all. He was bald and old looking. But he had insane charisma. Reigns has very little charisma. But they both have the kids on their side because of the superman push.

And that can go for anyone.
 

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If Jinder main evented 3 consecutive WMs and won a Rumble, he'd be getting much bigger reactions than Roman ever did.

Jinder heat > Roman Reigns heat :shrug

Roman at his peak never got this much attention, I get the impression some Roman marks are a bit shaken by it all.

He's no longer the most polarizing or the one on everyones' lips.

Is Roman....

THE GUY who gets the biggest reaction? Nope.
THE GUY who gets the biggest babyface reaction? Nope.
THE GUY who is more polarizing than any other wrestler in the world? Nope.
THE GUY everyone has an opinion and is more talked about than any other wrestler in the world? Nope.
 

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alexa = greatest of all time!
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Going fckin' Over.. while Digging Holes-uhh and Bu
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Jinder as WWE Champion-uhh.. is nothing but a troll job by old man Vince.

The sooner you marks realize it, the better it will be for your well-being.

:trips2

Comparison with The Big Dog doesn't make sense.

Jinder is a poodle. Reigns is a doberman.

Believe that, babygurrl.

:reigns2 :Tripslick
 

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Hulk Hogan did not look cool at all. He was bald and old looking. But he had insane charisma. Reigns has very little charisma. But they both have the kids on their side because of the superman push.

And that can go for anyone.
Mid 80s Hulk Hogan wasn't that bald and even if he was he was still able to hide it well and nor was he old then. He looked like a superhero vanquishing all villains. Thats the key word here, looked. His charisma also helped trenendously of course.

Roman Reigns has charisma. The man has presence. Mic skills may be debatable but don't deny that if he stepped into a room all eyes wouldn't fall on him. Even Rollins has said that he learned how to show more presence by imitating Reigns's cocky and always confident demeanour. To adults, that kind of thing might piss you of but to kids, that shit looks cool af. Combined that with his look and his superman push, of course kids would love him.

Jinder just does not have the same charisma. Granted charisma is subjective, but from a quick glance I can already tell this guys isn't supposed to be a hero. Even if he does have charisma, its not the same as Reigns or Hogan's. If anything with his bulging veigns, and his always being angry he looks like the classic supervillain. Its part of the reason why he can get such casual heat, he actually looks villanous enough from first glance that casuals want to boo him. That kind of charisma, doesn't always translate well as a babyface. With Punk, Jericho etc there was always something cool about them. Not with Jinder. You just cannot get kids to like him much with a superman push. His charisma and presence just doesn't allow that.
 

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Charisma was Rock and Hogan. Jinder doesent have it. Vince is just trolling the marks with this push into the indian market. Jinder well fade back into jobber status. You wait. R Truth he well be.
 

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If Jinder main evented 3 consecutive WMs and won a Rumble, he'd be getting much bigger reactions than Roman ever did.

Jinder heat > Roman Reigns heat :shrug

Roman at his peak never got this much attention, I get the impression some Roman marks are a bit shaken by it all.

He's no longer the most polarizing or the one on everyones' lips.

Is Roman....

THE GUY who gets the biggest reaction? Nope.
THE GUY who gets the biggest babyface reaction? Nope.
THE GUY who is more polarizing than any other wrestler in the world? Nope.
THE GUY everyone has an opinion and is more talked about than any other wrestler in the world? Nope.
Lol at your signature.

Yeah fale, theyre booking him like superman and youre not close to being his lex luthor.

And learn what superman means, hes about to eat 2 or 3 clean pins in the g-1, possibly to your worthless ass
 

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Baby Yoda
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Lol at your signature.

Yeah fale, theyre booking him like superman and youre not close to being his lex luthor.

And learn what superman means, hes about to eat 2 or 3 clean pins in the g-1, possibly to your worthless ass
Kenny said all of that :lol
 
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A push can get your foot in the door and help you get an initial crowd response. The crowd will lose interest if you have nothing else to offer. Roman's managed to maintain interest and I think Jinder is going to do the same. At least give him the chance to do so before declaring him a failure.
 

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Success of a push shows first and foremost in merch, ratings and ticket sales.

Jinder hinders all three.
 

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If we're going by this argument, then Jinder's reactions reflect a lot more badly on most of the heels of the past 5 years TBH. By the same line of reasoning, if a bottom of the barrel jobber like Jinder can garner genuinely big negative reactions in a matter of 1 month like a proper heel should, what does it say about most of the heels of the past few years who have been pushed way more and have held many more accolades than Jinder has, still not being able to garner a quarter of the genuine heel heat that Jinder is?

If you're still an adherent to the Face-Heel dynamic structuring, then most of the heels on the roster are as big if not bigger failures at getting the desired reactions than Reigns has been.

With that being said, I believe Jinder has been a genuinely good performer and surely deserves the response that he has been getting. He's a proper heel with commendable mic skills in an era where heels getting heat has been a near obsolete concept. If he's able to sustain these reactions for months and years and positively affects the financials as a perennial main eventer, then he definitely deserves all the praise in the world for that.
 
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