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Regarding Hogan vs. Rock, doesn't the fact that many people consider it one of the most entertaining matches they've ever seen enough to justify it being called one of the greatest matches of all time?

That doesn't mean they aren't big money matches... and Undertaker vs Mankind was absolutely the main attraction for that show.
No, the biggest selling point for the ppv was Austin vs Kane in the first ever First Blood Match. Austin was red hot at the time and Foley was at a lower point in his career in terms of being marketable.

Mankind vs Taker was probably the bigger selling point for the home video, after people knew how crazy the match was.
 

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Them two going against each other? When?




....but did they main-event against Taker?? That's the argument.


Beside Survivor Series, every Austin PPV match in 1998 was the main event, regardless of where that match is placed. Saying that Kane/Taker was the true main-event of WM 14 is straight up lunacy. You think they payed Tyson a shitload of money just to put him in a secondary program???...




Again, I've never said anything about whos closing the show.
I think he's actually right about that though. Undertaker faced Kane for the belt with Austin as the special guest ref in 98. The bout ended in a draw/ and led to the tourney at Survivor Series.

Still it's a b ppv. We're talking real $ matches here.
 

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A bigger star? No. Only a small handful of guys could think that without suffering from mass delusion.

He might think he's a bigger... and I'm trying to think of the proper word... influence or legacy in, perhaps even more respect within the industry on, the business. Which is debatable, in some ways even subjective.
 

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No, the biggest selling point for the ppv was Austin vs Kane in the first ever First Blood Match. Austin was red hot at the time and Foley was at a lower point in his career in terms of being marketable.

Mankind vs Taker was probably the bigger selling point for the home video, after people knew how crazy the match was.
Austin was definitely red hot, but the build up to that PPV was focused a lot more on the Hell in a Cell match. Hell they even did one before the actual PPV.


Regarding Hogan vs. Rock, doesn't the fact that many people consider it one of the most entertaining matches they've ever seen enough to justify it being called one of the greatest matches of all time?
No.


I think he's actually right about that though. Undertaker faced Kane for the belt with Austin as the special guest ref in 98. The bout ended in a draw/ and led to the tourney at Survivor Series.
Good catch, I actually forgot about their Judgement Day match. So they've main evented two PPVs against one another.

Still it's a b ppv. We're talking real $ matches here.
Money in the Bank 2011 was a B PPV...
 

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The Rock had freedom on the mic, he could say whatever he wanted, so I think it was easier for him to get over, because he didn't have the restrictions that Taker had.
That’s pretty much later that he was given more freedom on the mic, taker had a good gimmick from the get go just like Y2J. Rock started with one of the worst gimmicks in wrestling history

drawn more money
Are you sure about that one?

Andre was still a bigger draw than him.
He never ever was
 

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He might do as wrestlers need to have big egos to be any sort of star in the business. All the guys probably think they were bigger stars than top guys. We all know Rock was and will always be a bigger top level star.
 

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Are you sure about that one?
Not 100%, but he had so many more years at the top and has been a huge international draw for decades. There have been a few SaudiManias built around him, they bring in a fortune.

On the other hand Rock was the main attraction of those 3 WrestleManias, a Survivor Series and a Royal Rumble 2011-13, I'm sure that would push him up. Still think Undertaker's would have substantially more though.
 

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He was popular but Rock was simply way more popular
No, he wasn't. He doesn't come close to matching Andre's popularity in the 70s. Andre was an international sensation capable of selling out entire arenas on his own around the world. He wasn't tied to any one brand, he WAS the brand. The Rock benefited from Austin's rise in popularity and had a strong supporting cast to help him. And even then, his popularity outside the US doesn't come anywhere close to Andres.
 

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Not 100%, but he had so many more years at the top and has been a huge international draw for decades. There have been a few SaudiManias built around him, they bring in a fortune.

On the other hand Rock was the main attraction of those 3 WrestleManias, a Survivor Series and a Royal Rumble 2011-13, I'm sure that would push him up. Still think Undertaker's would have substantially more though.
Undertaker, I don’t even think he drew more than HHH let alone being close to The Rock
 

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He was popular but Rock was simply way more popular
I don't think you realize how popular Andre was? I am not being a jerk just stating the obvious.

Andre toured the world selling out shows, and in many parts of the wrestling world Andre is still a bigger star than the Rock.

Andre was on network television in the 70's, he was on all the talk shows. He had a major part in one of the most beloved movies of all time. He was in such high demand Vince Sr could basically send him out to make money every night because Andre popped every house show.
Plus he headlined the greatest angle/WM in WWF history.

The Rock is great but Andre is higher on the GOAT list.


No, he wasn't. He doesn't come close to matching Andre's popularity in the 70s. Andre was an international sensation capable of selling out entire arenas on his own around the world. He wasn't tied to any one brand, he WAS the brand. The Rock benefited from Austin's rise in popularity and had a strong supporting cast to help him. And even then, his popularity outside the US doesn't come anywhere close to Andres.
Exactly.
 

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Rock was already the biggest (most popular) star in pro-wrestling at this point (2004).



Yeah... there's no heat, but for some reason relationship between these two always intrigues me. WWE seems to kind of "protecting" them from each other since Rock return in 2011, i mean there was no confrontation, no segment... fans would be split.

Another interesting (kind of similar) relaionship was between Thesz and Flair i think.
I'm aware that he was, and as for their relationship, maybe they respected one another in the locker room, but weren't that close? I mean, look at Shawn Michaels & Bret Hart. They despised each other back then, but they respected the other's abilities inside the ring. Not everyone needs to be "buddy buddy" in the business.
 

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I mean hell, it never mattered who Andre was going up against, or who was on the card. If he was there, those arenas were sold out, period. It didn't matter what promotion he was performing for or what country he was in. Imagine the Rock trying to go to Japan and selling out every event with a bunch of nobodies. He would fail, epically. Andre was filling out arenas and then some on a regular basis. To even imply that Andre never reached the heights The Rock did is ludicrous. It's the other way around.
 

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No one past, present or future ever reached the peak popularity of The Rock 1999-2000. All the f**** drawing records from PPV buys to Arena sellouts to cable ratings to merchandise sales point out to that.
And LOL to the guy saying that The Rock wont draw as big internationally as Andre did. Rock sold out every single arena in Japan way back in 2002 and sold out 60k strong in Australia in the very same year.
 

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I think he's actually right about that though. Undertaker faced Kane for the belt with Austin as the special guest ref in 98. The bout ended in a draw/ and led to the tourney at Survivor Series.

Still it's a b ppv. We're talking real $ matches here.
Hell in a Cell 2010
So from 1997 to 2019, they only main-evented a PPV twice....from a creative standpoint they been stuck together since Kane's debut, and yet only 2 main-events. It's funny that you mentioned the breakdown match, they had add Austin into the mix just to generate interest, and the fact that the fans popped with AUstin both of them down and counted to three, which is one of the worst finishes I've ever seen, just prove that people didn't really give a crap about those two facing each other, they just wanted to see Austin.


No it's not. The argument is whether the matches themselves were big money matches. You seem to be under the impression that unless the match was in the main event, it wasn't a draw, which is laughable.
It's not about who close out the show. The main storyline leading up to that PPV was Kane/Austin, it's not even debatable.

The night after, those two main-evented the Show again.


Where did I ever state that Kane/Taker was the true main event of WM 14? I'll wait.
You said for a lot of people Kane/Taker was the biggest match of the show,...not even the biggest Kane/Taker fans believe this.




Your exact reply to Taker/Mankind was "it might have stole the show, but it wasn't the main event". What do you think main event means?
Main event = the main storyline

Rock/Hogan was the true main-event of WM 18 because leading up to that event it was a primary focus from a creative standpoint.

The Rock benefited from Austin's rise in popularity and had a strong supporting cast to help him. And even then, his popularity outside the US doesn't come anywhere close to Andres.

Here we go again.

The same can be said about Austin, he benefited from the nWo's rise in popularity. They literally brought the wrestling industry from death to life. Actually, if it wasn't for Hulk Hogan turning the WWE into a global brand in the 80s, Austin wouldn't be nearly as popular.

If getting big in the AE was this easy, then why didn't the other wrestlers rode the "Austin wave", and become as popular as Rock was/is?


Now you're saying Andre was bigger than Rock...lol. No one sold out more house shows than Rock did in 2000. Seriously, just stop.
 
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