Wrestling Forum banner

301 - 320 of 337 Posts

·
Greek God of Knowledge
Joined
·
7,532 Posts
And these bolded are why I'm shitting on you for being All Lives Matter.

On one one hand you're all "All Lives Matter is a great inclusive philosophy against abusive authority"

But then you undermine it immediately make it cowardly and worthless by saying "well of course it's not a real group, as it'd get so much flak if it was. That's not worth it, let cops kill us. Don't want to ruffle feathers".
Making a difference isn't always a positive difference, that's why there's people that attempt to provoke new philosophical takes to a sensitive issue. In this case I believe that it's important and I explained why throughout my lengthy discussion with you.

The only thing I'd encourage is elaboration and context assigned to the sayings so that the reader is clear on the intention and doesn't misconstrue it as an insult (like you do). I'm sure there's idiots out there that say "All Lives Matter" just to troll, and that's wrong. I don't go around saying it myself, but I understand where it's coming from when stated seriously and I don't think it's racist to do so.
All Lives Matter is, in of itself, a racist statement depending on context. Of course all lives matter is correct. That was never in question. To use the phrase when directly responding to "Black Lives Matter" is basically the equivalent of saying "so?". All Lives Matter is an unnecessary response to a movement that has legitimate purpose. It is basically attempting to undermine its purpose by playing the victim card of "our lives matter too". This is why people who are supporters of BLM get pissed whenever they hear someone spout that nonsense. It's unnecessary. Just say you don't think Black Lives Matter, because otherwise there is no legitimate reason to state it.

At the same time though...well, I'm just going to say this.

I saw a conversation on Facebook the other day over the death of Bryant in Columbus (the girl who got shot when she was trying to stab the other girl who showed up at her house). There was a popular tweet about the incident, stating that if the girl who died was white, there would be a lot of discussion about bullying and about how she was an unfortunate victim of the society she grew up in. There would even be a law made about her or some shit (yeah I thought this was dumb too). A person responded to this tweet with "if she was white, you guys wouldn't be protesting".

And...yeah, that's the thing. BLM probably wouldn't be. They probably wouldn't even bat an eye. And that in of itself is one of the biggest reasons why I cannot support the movement anymore. I will still always fight for equality for all races, but at this point, BLM has lost their ways entirely. A cop saved another girls life, and BLM's take away from this is that this was another case of a black person dying unnecessarily at the hands of a white cop. MSM made this into a race thing once again, and BLM ignored context in order to continue to justify their movement. So yeah, while I do not agree with most of the shit Kyra says, I cannot say I blame him for refusing to get behind the distorted and confused message that BLM continues to spout. At this point, it comes across as a pity game on their part, rather than an actual attempt at change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,102 Posts
It's unnecessary. Just say you don't think Black Lives Matter, because otherwise there is no legitimate reason to state it.

This is the thing though.


Saying "All Lives Matter" isn't saying that you don't think "Black Lives Matter". This would be a direct contradiction of what is implied when someone writes "All Lives Matter'. "All Lives Matter" includes black lives so it can't possibly mean that.

Can it be used as provocation by someone that dislikes what BLM stands for in regards to perpetuating further racial division, or how groupings of them conduct their business? Sure. Can it be used as a method for trolling? Sure. Can it be used to undermine based on some of these reasons? Sure.

Is it racist? Well the only context that can clue you in to this conclusion is what is written before or after the person's use of "All Lives Matter", because the mantra itself has no racist connotation to it. Attempting to undermine the nature of a movement doesn't necessarily imply racism, but rather could imply disapproval for how a movement is conducted and the intended/unintended consequences at risk.
 

·
Greek God of Knowledge
Joined
·
7,532 Posts
Is it racist? Well the only context that can clue you in to this conclusion is what is written before or after the person's use of "All Lives Matter", because the mantra itself has no racist connotation to it. Attempting to undermine the nature of a movement doesn't necessarily imply racism, but rather could imply disapproval for how a movement is conducted and the intended/unintended consequences at risk.
That's the point I'm trying to make. It's all in regards to context. All Lives Matter by itself is not a racist statement, but there are people out there who do use it to spout a incoherently racist statement. For some people, it's their way of hiding their racist intentions by making it seem as if they too share the belief, but want to include other races as well. Again, I have no problem with "all lives matter", but when used in context in response to a movement that is designed to help better the lives of a particular race, the timing and purpose of such a statement becomes questionable. Yes, all lives matter, but that isn't the point. That was never the point to begin with. Black Lives Matter doesn't imply that black lives are superior, just that they matter too. Black Lives Matters, if anything, is openly acknowledging that all the other lives matter, but so do theirs.

But, again, this just goes back to the problem I have with the movement as a whole, and why I can no longer truly get behind it. It has truly become an anti- white police movement, and their reaction to the death of Bryant is a showcase of that. If a police officer saving another girls life, a black one no less, is still going to result in protests from the BLM movement because he had to kill one to save her, and he's white...then I'm sorry, but you lose all credibility in my eyes. At this point, it is either taking advantage of a situation for the sake of your own agenda, or it is closet racism. Take your pick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,102 Posts
That's the point I'm trying to make. It's all in regards to context. All Lives Matter by itself is not a racist statement, but there are people out there who do use it to spout a incoherently racist statement. For some people, it's their way of hiding their racist intentions by making it seem as if they too share the belief, but want to include other races as well. Again, I have no problem with "all lives matter", but when used in context in response to a movement that is designed to help better the lives of a particular race, the timing and purpose of such a statement becomes questionable. Yes, all lives matter, but that isn't the point. That was never the point to begin with. Black Lives Matter doesn't imply that black lives are superior, just that they matter too. Black Lives Matters, if anything, is openly acknowledging that all the other lives matter, but so do theirs.

But, again, this just goes back to the problem I have with the movement as a whole, and why I can no longer truly get behind it. It has truly become an anti- white police movement, and their reaction to the death of Bryant is a showcase of that. If a police officer saving another girls life, a black one no less, is still going to result in protests from the BLM movement because he had to kill one to save her, and he's white...then I'm sorry, but you lose all credibility in my eyes. At this point, it is either taking advantage of a situation for the sake of your own agenda, or it is closet racism. Take your pick.

I can agree with most of that.


It's fair to question the timing/motivation behind the use of "All Lives Matter", but that's what civil discourse is for.


I don't always agree with dropping "All Lives Matter" somewhere and leaving it at that, because it can so easily be interpreted as provocation even when the intention is coming from a good place. It's a lot more effective when you can advocate this philosophy by elaborating on it, and elaborating on why you believe that BLM is taking the wrong approach. You will never reason with some of the angry mob-like rioters that hide under BLM as an excuse to perpetuate gratuitous chaos, but you will at least have a much greater chance of connecting with the more sensical people behind the movement.
 

·
Greek God of Knowledge
Joined
·
7,532 Posts
I can agree with most of that.


It's fair to question the timing/motivation behind the use of "All Lives Matter", but that's what civil discourse is for.


I don't always agree with dropping "All Lives Matter" somewhere and leaving it at that, because it can so easily be interpreted as provocation even when the intention is coming from a good place. It's a lot more effective when you can advocate this philosophy by elaborating on it, and elaborating on why you believe that BLM is taking the wrong approach. You will never reason with some of the angry mob-like rioters that hide under BLM as an excuse to perpetuate gratuitous chaos, but you will at least have a much greater chance of connecting with the more sensical people behind the movement.
Expecting them to be able to be reasonable is almost impossible, because as I've stated before, BLM has become political, not a matter of right or wrong. And that's probably the biggest reason as to why BLM will never really go away because their intent isn't to actually fix the problem, but rather acknowledge it exists. Almost everyone here knows racism exists, but you are never going to see anything change if your go-to method of combating police brutality is "they have a racist agenda". Almost no reasonable person growing up with those beliefs is ever going to listen to an officer.
 

·
Is a Snit Head
Joined
·
22,269 Posts
So my take on the "All Lives Matter" and "Black Lives Matter" posts... Context is key. Without any context there is nothing wrong with saying all lives matter of course. Best example I can think of is that without context you have these two phrases "person of color" and "colored person." In a vacuum they mean the same thing. Look at the history of the phrases and it becomes pretty clear that even though the phrases are the same basically one should not be used.

Black Lives Matter came first. All Lives Matter was done in response to protests about black people getting killed by cops. It's a phrase that you say so can criticize the name of the movement without having to actually talk about or think about the merits of the movement. You have a bunch of people protesting black people getting killed by police. What the movement is called is less important than what the movement is actually about. Personally, I think it's a terrible name for a movement because it's so easy to fight about.

Let's talk about bands. I think the Beatles are the best band ever. If your counterpoint is that their name is stupid and they shouldn't name themselves after bugs you're not really talking about if they're the best band ever. You're just making a dumb point that doesn't really relate to what I'm trying to talk about.

If "All Lives Matter" was actually some type of movement before BLM then no there would be nothing wrong with saying that. But when you look at where it actually came from it's just a phrase used to discredit BLM's name and not what they are trying to do.
 

·
None. More. Hated.
Tuck Your Chin.
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
So my take on the "All Lives Matter" and "Black Lives Matter" posts... Context is key. Without any context there is nothing wrong with saying all lives matter of course. Best example I can think of is that without context you have these two phrases "person of color" and "colored person." In a vacuum they mean the same thing. Look at the history of the phrases and it becomes pretty clear that even though the phrases are the same basically one should not be used.

Black Lives Matter came first. All Lives Matter was done in response to protests about black people getting killed by cops. It's a phrase that you say so can criticize the name of the movement without having to actually talk about or think about the merits of the movement. You have a bunch of people protesting black people getting killed by police. What the movement is called is less important than what the movement is actually about. Personally, I think it's a terrible name for a movement because it's so easy to fight about.

Let's talk about bands. I think the Beatles are the best band ever. If your counterpoint is that their name is stupid and they shouldn't name themselves after bugs you're not really talking about if they're the best band ever. You're just making a dumb point that doesn't really relate to what I'm trying to talk about.

If "All Lives Matter" was actually some type of movement before BLM then no there would be nothing wrong with saying that. But when you look at where it actually came from it's just a phrase used to discredit BLM's name and not what they are trying to do.
All Lives Matter is simply a response to what Black Lives Matters message became. A marxist group that wants to start a race war in this country. A cop saved a black kids life on film and they are still trying to ruin his life. Its outrageous. I dont mind someone saying Black Lives Matter. If someone is standing next to me with a Black lives Matter shirt or hat, it doesnt offend me. I believe they have genuine concerns. But the leaders and financiers of the movement have co opted it and steered it into a very dark and evil thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,102 Posts
So my take on the "All Lives Matter" and "Black Lives Matter" posts... Context is key. Without any context there is nothing wrong with saying all lives matter of course. Best example I can think of is that without context you have these two phrases "person of color" and "colored person." In a vacuum they mean the same thing. Look at the history of the phrases and it becomes pretty clear that even though the phrases are the same basically one should not be used.

Black Lives Matter came first. All Lives Matter was done in response to protests about black people getting killed by cops. It's a phrase that you say so can criticize the name of the movement without having to actually talk about or think about the merits of the movement. You have a bunch of people protesting black people getting killed by police. What the movement is called is less important than what the movement is actually about. Personally, I think it's a terrible name for a movement because it's so easy to fight about.

Let's talk about bands. I think the Beatles are the best band ever. If your counterpoint is that their name is stupid and they shouldn't name themselves after bugs you're not really talking about if they're the best band ever. You're just making a dumb point that doesn't really relate to what I'm trying to talk about.

If "All Lives Matter" was actually some type of movement before BLM then no there would be nothing wrong with saying that. But when you look at where it actually came from it's just a phrase used to discredit BLM's name and not what they are trying to do.
This is what so many people that are offended by the use of "All Lives Matter" don't grasp in regards to this issue. They'll automatically cry "racism!" because a mantra like "All Lives Matter" appears to challenge or undermine another movement.

Challenging something or attempting to undermine it doesn't necessarily imply racism. The only kind of context that would imply racism is in association with another actual racist comment.

For example: "Listen up you fucking N*****. ALL LIVES MATTER". <--- now there you can definitely say that the mantra was stated by a racist person.

Otherwise, you simply can't prove it's racist-fueled intention, you can only question it's use as a means of provocation. Thinking that a movement like BLM is flawed or corrupt isn't exclusively part of a racist mindset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Do the people who think Black Lives Matter and Antifa are the good guys also think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an excellent country?

I mean . . . it's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Democracy, republic, people . . . it sounds like a paradise full of freedom and fairness.

If you can understand why the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is an evil communist country despite it's deceptively-friendly name, then there's no reason you shouldn't be able do the same for BLM and Antifa.

Quit being fooled by a deceptive label. It makes you look like simple, naive children.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
362 Posts
I have a better phrase that those who abuse BLM and turned the phrase into a racist organization and movement can't mess with, because they can pretend to and be presumptuous on All Lives Matter

UNITED Lives Matter, if you're against uniting races, you're racist. nor can anyone call someone else a racist for this movement, because the very definition of a racist is someone divisive who wants to divide races, racists hate unity.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
362 Posts
Now SHE is racist.

"You'll never be white"

I don't recall Trump ever saying that, yet the left fights for minorities while yelling that??

These lefties virtue signaling only to hide their real racism, sociopaths try to act very social and moral too to hide it but fail.

Funny that I entered college so late in my life, I have a professor who starts getting nuts if you even suggest not taking the vaccine. ironically I just wrote a paper about how police shouldn't be involved in traffic enforcement unless serious crime involving vehicle happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,402 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,220 Posts
one of the dumbass jurors has been identified as a protester.

View attachment 100712

and along with the fact that BLM and swamp hag Maxine literally held the country hostage if they didn't get the verdict they wanted starting to sound like the case may be appealed. imagine the rage that will ensue once he gets dismissed of charges or a much lighter sentence.

I'm no expert on US courtrooms or laws but wouldn't one of the jurors being involved with BLM and Anquifa be grounds for a miss trial?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,402 Posts
301 - 320 of 337 Posts
Top