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Do you think Flashpoint will retcon MOS, BVS, SS and JL?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I think Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, and Justice League will be retconned from the DCEU. Keep in mind that they were the only critically panned, universally divisive and fairly controversial movies in the franchise. Part of the reason why was because these films were rushed in an attempt to catch up with the MCU. Characters were being shoehorned and storylines were being crammed left and right. For example, half of the Justice League members were introduced to via email attachment, and Cavill's Superman was killed off in his second on-screen appearance with little to no build up. Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and to an extent, Justice League, were all apart of Snyder's vision and I think Warner Brothers wants to distance themselves from that. They also have no plans to release The Snyder Cut whatsoever despite the fact that it exists.

Affleck left The Batman as its director and as its star, so it's unlikely that he'd come back. The movie won't be a prequel to Batman v Superman with Battinson playing a younger Batfleck as speculated but it will be a fresh reboot with a fresh trilogy. Warner Brothers still doesn't have any plans for Superman, Man of Steel still doesn't have a sequel in the works after all these years, and Cavill still only has one more movie left on his contract. There's not much they can do with him, and they couldn't even get him to make a proper cameo in Shazam. Even though Batman and Superman are the two most popular superheroes of all time, none of the DCEU movies they were in grossed a billion dollars at the box office as they should've. On top of that, they also weren't as well-received as many fans had thought and hoped they'd be. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam are proof that the DCEU can survive and thrive without the World's Finest.

Gunn has confirmed that The Suicide Squad will be a total reboot from Suicide Squad as opposed to a sequel. There will be brand new characters as well as characters from the previous film who will and won't return. Him and Leto also have real-life beef with each other and I doubt they'd ever consider working together. The latter has been confirmed to not return as The Joker in any upcoming movie featuring Robbie's Harley Quinn. He was supposed to have his own standalone film as the character before it was pulled in favor of the Phoenix and Phillips film, and was reportedly upset at that decision. In the Birds of Prey trailer, Robbie's Harley reveals that she broke up with Leto's Joker and will be on her own. From the way things are going, it sees like that was done to write off that iteration of Mister J.
 

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The whole DCCU was flawed from the get go. Reboot the whole thing and be done with it.

Also DO NOT make an origin story movie for Superman or Batman, we don't need to see another version of Krypton being blown up, nor Thomas and Martha Wayne getting shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The whole DCCU was flawed from the get go. Reboot the whole thing and be done with it.

Also DO NOT make an origin story movie for Superman or Batman, we don't need to see another version of Krypton being blown up, nor Thomas and Martha Wayne getting shot.
It was doomed from the start, wasn’t it? They were hellbent on rushing the DCEU in an attempt to replicate the success of the MCU. Aquaman, Cyborg and The Flash should’ve been established in standalone movies much like Captain America, Iron Man and Thor were. The fact that they weren’t was one of the main reasons why fans weren’t as interested or invested in seeing Justice League as they were with The Avengers. What’s sad is that they had the right action sequences, casting decisions, costume designs and visual effects for the most part. Had they taken their time with everything, DC’s cinematic universe would’ve been huge competition for Marvel’s. Just talking about a potential hard or soft reboot for the franchise shows how much they’ve failed.

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Keep Wonder Woman, Aquaman & Shazam and erase the rest.

Batman should do what the Adam West Batman series did and have him already as Batman with a few references to his parents' death (press conference, passing comment).

And with Superman do the same as Lois & Clark and begin with him arriving in Metropolis
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Keep Wonder Woman, Aquaman & Shazam and erase the rest.

Batman should do what the Adam West Batman series did and have him already as Batman with a few references to his parents' death (press conference, passing comment).

And with Superman do the same as Lois & Clark and begin with him arriving in Metropolis
Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam will 100% still be cannon after Flashpoint. Not only were they smash hits, they already have a sequel in the works. When it’s all said and done, each of those characters will have had their own trilogy. They have the right actors in the roles, the right directors at the helm, and the right feedback from the fans. Plus, it’s pretty much a given that we’re going to see Shazam facing off against Black Adam on the big screen. The former had a standalone movie that was a huge critical success, and the latter will be played by The Rock who’s a huge box office draw. It makes sense from a business standpoint, and I can definitely picture Birds of Prey v Gotham City Sirens down the road as well.

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It's too bad Swamp Thing was cancelled, DC could have had a horror franchise on their hands with a TV show.

DC could always give us more Harley Quinn!
 

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I have no faith in them to succeed. They can't even get fucking Superman right. Literally the easiest and most foundational character in the entire genre and they admittedly have no clue what to do.

You see headlines like "WB struggling to make Superman relevant"... or "WB has no plans for a Superman movie"... and it really makes you scratch your head.

Honestly they haven't even gotten Batman right yet. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger the Bat-franchise would probably be in shambles too.

DC has been a fucking joke since the 90's honestly.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have no faith in them to succeed. They can't even get fucking Superman right. Literally the easiest and most foundational character in the entire genre and they admittedly have no clue what to do.

You see headlines like "WB struggling to make Superman relevant"... or "WB has no plans for a Superman movie"... and it really makes you scratch your head.

Honestly they haven't even gotten Batman right yet. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger the Bat-franchise would probably be in shambles too.

DC has been a fucking joke since the 90's honestly.
Superman should’ve been light and warm hearted as opposed to dark and cold hearted. His death should’ve gone down as one of the most emotional and impactful moments in the history of cinema but it didn’t. They completely butchered such a famous storyline since they completely failed to get audiences to fully care about this iteration of the character. And the fact that the studio still doesn’t have any plans for him shows that Cavill’s pretty much done with the part, especially since he only has one more movie appearance left on his contract. But to be honest, he’s better off without the DCEU as Mission Impossible: Fallout was a big success in theaters, The Witcher was a big success on Netflix, and he’s going to get more roles down the line. It’s not the end of the world for him and it’s been proven that the franchise can live without the two most popular superheroes of all time in Batman and Superman. Honestly, I had my fingers crossed Man of Tomorrow would be released in 2023 aka 10 years after Man of Steel was released in 2013 but that doesn’t seem likely anymore.

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Yeah as much as I like Cavill (He's not to blame him for The Witcher) Superman needs a complete reboot.

I know Gadot & Mamoa were also DCEU but their solos managed to salvage their characters, Cavill just has too much baggage.
 

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Superman should’ve been light and warm hearted as opposed to dark and cold hearted. His death should’ve gone down as one of the most emotional and impactful moments in the history of cinema but it didn’t. They completely butchered such a famous storyline since they completely failed to get audiences to fully care about this iteration of the character. And the fact that the studio still doesn’t have any plans for him shows that Cavill’s pretty much done with the part, especially since he only has one more movie appearance left on his contract. But to be honest, he’s better off without the DCEU as Mission Impossible: Fallout was a big success in theaters, The Witcher was a big success on Netflix, and he’s going to get more roles down the line. It’s not the end of the world for him and it’s been proven that the franchise can live without the two most popular superheroes of all time in Batman and Superman. Honestly, I had my fingers crossed Man of Tomorrow would be released in 2023 aka 10 years after Man of Steel was released in 2013 but that doesn’t seem likely anymore.

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The Death of Superman comic was horseshit to begin with and epitomized everything wrong with 90's comics. They only pulled from it in the first place because it was something previously popular and they couldn't come up with an original story on their own.

But you are right, Superman should be light hearted. They want to "ground" everything so badly that it completely spits in the face of what the character is. It's like they are ashamed. Hence why they always feel the need to change the way he looks and operates.

Superman should have the tone of a disney movie, something like The Incredibles. Wholesome family entertainment for all ages. Yet they so badly want to make him pallatable for angsty teenagers and hardcore gamers who just want violence and 'splosions.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah as much as I like Cavill (He's not to blame him for The Witcher) Superman needs a complete reboot.

I know Gadot & Mamoa were also DCEU but their solos managed to salvage their characters, Cavill just has too much baggage.
Honestly, I can definitely see Cavill joining the MCU as Captain Britain. There were rumors a few months ago that he met up with Feige about a potential role, and he’d be the right fit for it. Since he’s being underutilized and undervalued in the DCEU, it’s best that he goes somewhere where he’ll be much more appreciated. It’s not like we’re going to see him wearing the red cape anytime soon. Love or hate the Superman movies he was in, they should’ve joined the one billion dollar club. A film about the two greatest superheroes of all time fighting each other underperformed at the box office, as did a film about the most popular superheroes of all time teaming up. Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam being successful were proof that the franchise doesn’t really need Batman or Superman all that much.

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Discussion Starter #12
The Death of Superman comic was horseshit to begin with and epitomized everything wrong with 90's comics. They only pulled from it in the first place because it was something previously popular and they couldn't come up with an original story on their own.

But you are right, Superman should be light hearted. They want to "ground" everything so badly that it completely spits in the face of what the character is. It's like they are ashamed. Hence why they always feel the need to change the way he looks and operates.

Superman should have the tone of a disney movie, something like The Incredibles. Wholesome family entertainment for all ages. Yet they so badly want to make him pallatable for angsty teenagers and hardcore gamers who just want violence and 'splosions.
One of the reasons why the MCU has been successful is that they keep their light characters light and their dark characters dark. And one of the reasons why the DCEU failed was because they made each of their characters all doom and gloom. Man of Steel didn’t do great job in terms of making this version of Superman likable. Him destroying half of Metropolis and letting thousands of people of die was very uncharacteristic of him to say the least. Batman v Superman could’ve at least tried to balance the former’s darkness with the latter’s brightness. Instead, the movie ended up looking and feeling like Watchmen 2.0. This is an optimistic and heroic superhero that should’ve easily have been written well from the get-go.

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One of the reasons why the MCU has been successful is that they keep their light characters light and their dark characters dark. And one of the reasons why the DCEU failed was because they made each of their characters all doom and gloom. Man of Steel didn’t do great job in terms of making this version of Superman likable. Him destroying half of Metropolis and letting thousands of people of die was very uncharacteristic of him to say the least. Batman v Superman could’ve at least tried to balance the former’s darkness with the latter’s brightness. Instead, the movie ended up looking and feeling like Watchmen 2.0. This is an optimistic and heroic superhero that should’ve easily have been written well from the get-go.

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Thankfully they've diverted away from that.....so far
 

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I have no faith in them to succeed. They can't even get fucking Superman right. Literally the easiest and most foundational character in the entire genre and they admittedly have no clue what to do.

You see headlines like "WB struggling to make Superman relevant"... or "WB has no plans for a Superman movie"... and it really makes you scratch your head.

Honestly they haven't even gotten Batman right yet. If it wasn't for Heath Ledger the Bat-franchise would probably be in shambles too.

DC has been a fucking joke since the 90's honestly.
Superman is a shitty character that's completely anachronistic to today's world, that's why there hasn't been a good Superman movie since the Cold War. Superman is a God but he's also a perfect person, there's no pathos to the character. Give a regular person God powers and they'd struggle to do the right thing, not Superman though, being the perfect person is easy when you're not actually a human person.

I loved MOS, I loved depressed, loner Superman, it was the only time Superman ever felt like a 3 dimensional character.
 

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Superman is a shitty character that's completely anachronistic to today's world, that's why there hasn't been a good Superman movie since the Cold War.

Superman is a God but he's also a perfect person, there's no pathos to the character. Give a regular person God powers and they'd struggle to do the right thing, not Superman though, being the perfect person is easy when you're not actually a human person.

I loved MOS, I loved depressed, loner Superman, it was the only time Superman ever felt like a 3 dimensional character.
The Captain America movies are basically Superman movies and those have been a huge success. They're pretty much the same character, the classic altruistic hero, just with different powers and abilities. If that type of character is so out of fashion, how do you explain Cap's success? He's become one of the most popular characters there is. I see Cap shirts everywhere.

There hasn't been a good Superman movie in a long time precisely because they keep trying to make him a depressed mope. In Superman Returns he was a depressed mope. Man of Steel he was a depressed mope. And what do you know... audiences didn't take.

You know the 70's weren't all sunshine and rainbows either. It was a dark time, it was post-Vietnam. The characters in the Donner movie... Lois, Perry White, etc... they were doubtful too. They too didn't believe in this perfect man who fought for truth, justice and the american way. The movie plays off that and works in spite of it.
 

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The Captain America movies are basically Superman movies and those have been a huge success. They're pretty much the same character, the classic altruistic hero, just with different powers and abilities. If that type of character is so out of fashion, how do you explain Cap's success? He's become one of the most popular characters there is. I see Cap shirts everywhere.

There hasn't been a good Superman movie in a long time precisely because they keep trying to make him a depressed mope. In Superman Returns he was a depressed mope. Man of Steel he was a depressed mope. And what do you know... audiences didn't take.

You know the 70's weren't all sunshine and rainbows either. It was a dark time, it was post-Vietnam. The characters in the Donner movie... Lois, Perry White, etc... they were doubtful too. They too didn't believe in this perfect man who fought for truth, justice and the american way. The movie plays off that and works in spite of it.
Captain America has weaknesses, Captain America loses, Captain America chose to break the law and become a fugitive rather than sign the Sokovia Accords, Captain America kills people, hell, Captain America even went back in time and erased the husband and children Peggy Carter originally had so he could be with her. People can relate to Captain America because even though he's a boy scout, at the end of the day he's still a flawed person.
 

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Captain America has weaknesses, Captain America loses, Captain America chose to break the law and become a fugitive rather than sign the Sokovia Accords, Captain America kills people, hell, Captain America even went back in time and erased the husband and children Peggy Carter originally had so he could be with her. People can relate to Captain America because even though he's a boy scout, at the end of the day he's still a flawed person.
Cap is guided by his moral compass and won't compromise them for anything. He is literally the Superman character just in a different skin and he is just as cartoonishly altruistic. In the first movie they set up his character by showing you he's willing to sacrifice himself and jump on a grenade just so he could save a few dozen lives. His reward is helping and protecting others.

Superman is not perfect, he makes mistakes too. The JL animated series emphasized this often. He was constantly challenged by the other league members, especially Batman. He also leads a personal life as Clark Kent and lusts Lois Lane despite not ever being able to profess his true feelings. He's the ultimate blue collar hero because his job is harder than everyone's and yet he still puts his head down and does what he has to.

There isn't a human being alive who's as brave or as morally unshakable as someone like Captain Picard. He is not a character most people can identify with, and yet he's still one of the most popular TV characters ever. They're even doing a revival series this year. People enjoy watching characters that inspire them to be greater than themselves and Superman epitomizes that more than any other character.
 

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Superman is really easy. All you have to do is read All Star Superman. Just use that Superman. Done. Easy. There's plenty of DC villains that just as absurdly powerful. You don't have Superman fight Batman lmfao. You have him fight other actual superpowerd beings. He's friends with Batman too by the way @ Zach Snyder. They're very good friends. lol using Frank Miller as inspiration instead of Grant Morrison.

Agreed that Captain America in the Marvel movies is very similar to Superman. Marvel making a better Superman than DC :brady6
 

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Superman is a shitty character that's completely anachronistic to today's world, that's why there hasn't been a good Superman movie since the Cold War. Superman is a God but he's also a perfect person, there's no pathos to the character. Give a regular person God powers and they'd struggle to do the right thing, not Superman though, being the perfect person is easy when you're not actually a human person.

I loved MOS, I loved depressed, loner Superman, it was the only time Superman ever felt like a 3 dimensional character.
I agree, he felt like a real person with tough choices. I thought MoS was a good movie and thought that it was a good start for Superman.

Have you ever seen My Hero Academia? The character All Might is a Superman type character and he's a better Superman than Superman is, his whole confident and perfect persona during a crisis and in action is so that people won't be scared anymore. He actually has fear and human emotions. Whereas Superman is just perfect.
 
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