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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know it seems a pretty random thread title but the reason I ask is because every year when the Wrestling Observer Awards come about Kane's name always seems to be attached to the Worst Feud of the Year Award and which we know Meltzer is behind the awards. I mean just look at this quote from someone on the forum.

If you like Kane, that's cool, but people that aren't bias know that's he's not a top 50 wrestler all time, not even in the WWE exclusively. If you won't take it from me, take it from ya boy Dave Meltzer- just check out the awards that Kane's name has been attached to...


Worst Gimmick (1996) as Fake Diesel
Worst Worked Match of the Year (2001) with The Undertaker vs. KroniK at Unforgiven
Worst Feud of the Year (2002) vs. Triple H
Worst Feud of the Year (2003) vs. Shane McMahon
Worst Feud of the Year (2004) vs. Matt Hardy and Lita
Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic (2004) Impregnating Lita
Worst Feud of the Year (2007) vs. Big Daddy V
Worst Feud of the Year (2008) vs. Rey Mysterio
Worst Feud of the Year (2010) vs. Edge
Most Overrated (2010)
Worst Feud of the Year (2012) vs. John Cena

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_(wrestler)#Championships_and_accomplishments

It's hilarious to see someone calling this guy a top 20 wrestler.
I mean how can Dave Meltzer have even thought of Shane McMahon and Kane been Feud Worst of 2003? I mean come on that's one of Kane's Greatest Feuds he's had. Sure Kane has had some terrible Storylines in the past, Kate Vick for example but the Shane and Kane feud didn't deserve that. Also look at Cena and Kane's Feud, we had Punk and Jericho's drinking Storyline going on at the same time and Cena and Kane's feud still get's Worst Feud? Mind you it's probably only got that because of Super Cena.

So what I'm saying is what's Dave's problem with Kane? Does he still like him as a Wrestler but doesn't like his Booking? Because there's no denying Kane is a brilliant worker, he's great in the ring and very agile for his size and age. So do you reckon the Awards are more pointing the finger at WWE writers than to Kane? Because it's not exactly Kane's fault as he doesn't write his own Storylines.
 

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Asuka
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Great in the ring, haha. I chuckled.

Kane is almost always involved in the worst feud of the year, so.....yeah. That character just sticks to crap like flies on shit.
 

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Who cares about his opinion.... Dave only raves about Japan wrestling and Indy wrestlers. He's never liked guys with a unique gimmick. I don't value his opinion one bit..... Never have never will. The same guy who didn't rate HBK/Taker WM 5 stars.

It's LAUGHABLE to say Kane/Shane was the worst fued in 03 when it was one of the best ones from that terrible year. You had all of those awful HHH fueds that were worse Also Kane/Cena definitely wasn't the worst fued in 2012 .... It was something fresh about turning cena. Kane can't help some of the awful storylines he's been put in over the last 15 years.

Kane isn't a top 10, 20, or 30 superstar, but he's definitely top 50. He's got the most longetivity over anyone, a big man who moves well for his size, great gimmick, good mic skills, and always puts the right guys over. Kane is for sure top 50 of all time. He's #39 for me.
 

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But what has, except of the "worst worked match" anything to do with Kane?
Worst feud says more about the writers than about him.
Kurt Angle vs Booker/Sharmell feud was called disgusting by many but what does this say about Kurt Angle and Booker T as wrestlers/characters?
 

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Meltzer is an idiot

The 03 feud was brilliant in my opinion and scott steiner and HHH was a lot worse but hey what do I know.
 
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Asuka
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HBK/Taker at WM 25 isn't 5 stars. 5 stars means perfect. Taker fucking up that dive and landing on his head and stopping that match for like 5 minutes was atrocious.

He needs to be smacked for not rating Angle/Benoit from the 03 Rumble or Triple H/Austin from No Way Out 01 5 stars, though.
 

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HBK/Taker at WM 25 isn't 5 stars. 5 stars means perfect. Taker fucking up that dive and landing on his head and stopping that match for like 5 minutes was atrocious.

He needs to be smacked for not rating Angle/Benoit from the 03 Rumble or Triple H/Austin from No Way Out 01 5 stars, though.


It is, a botch doesn't effect certain matches like that. Look at cena/punk MITB, had botches as well, but is still great, as is HBK/Taker..... If anything that dive into the cameraman made it even better.
 

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I don't know whats Dave's opinion on Kane, but I could really care less about it. Dave isn't the fuckin CEO/Leader of pro wrestling fans, so why some people act like his opinion is gold is beyond me. Dave must be borderline retarded to name Kane vs Shane McMahon the worst feud from 2003, especially when you had the Triple H vs Scott Steiner, HHH vs Booker T and Scott Steiner vs Test also on WWE programming that year.
 

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I didn't think his feud with Shane McMahon was bad, it certainly wasn't the worst feud of 2003. But he has been part of some really ridiculous storylines in his career. Guess the guy should have played politics a little bit more.
 

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Asuka
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It is, a botch doesn't effect certain matches like that. Look at cena/punk MITB, had botches as well, but is still great, as is HBK/Taker..... If anything that dive into the cameraman made it even better.
No, it's not perfect. Just because you've been conditioned by the WWE to believe that Shawn Michaels is the single greatest worker in the history of the wrestling business doesn't mean the match they promote as his best is perfect.

Cena vs Punk at MITB was TERRIBLE as far as the actual WORK in the ring went. Long, sloppy, and boring. The only reason that can be considered a great match is because of the storyline going into it, the crowd, and the payoff. Much like Hulk Hogan vs The Rock from WrestleMania x8. An actual great match they did have was the one at Night Of Champions when they did the whole fake Cena winning the title gimmick, which sadly didn't have a real finish because that actually WAS a great match.

Made it even better, lol. I don't even know what to say. If you like sitting there watching a guy do nothing on the floor for 5 minutes, I guess that's your business.
 

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I agree with Meltzer in that Shane McMahon vs Kane was a terrible feud. It's one of the reasons RAW got shat on that year. The fact that they booked Shane as if he had a chance at beating Kane who had just unmasked during that time and was booked like a monster was comical. They should have continued with Kane feuding with RVD. Shane didn't need the feud with Kane at all.

However, I wouldn't call it the worst feud that year. The worst feud of the year was easily Vince McMahon vs Stephanie McMahon which took up way too much air-time on Smackdown.
 

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Meltzer doesn't like Kane? So what? Kane has been a staple of the WWE for over 15 years now. He's doing okay. I do agree with you that he comes in for some undue criticism, but I wouldn't stress over it. I think some people just don't understand what Kane's role is with in the company. He's not there to be put on 5 star matches. He's a role player. He's a huge guy and an established name, so he's the perfect guy to have around in that upper midcard level. It means he's mostly protected in booking, but when someone beats him it's a big deal. Let's not forget how Daniel Bryan's big rise started. After losing on 4 consecutive PPVs, what reignited him was beating Kane clean at Summerslam 2012. So ultimately that's what Kane's job is. He has had to odd foray into the mainevent, but it's usually just to do filler programs and lose.

EDIT - Also let's not forget that Kane was apart of arguably the match of the year in 2012 with the TLC vs The Shield. Granted it was a 6 man, but I think that match epitomises a lot about Kane. He's a pro. When he's working the midcard, he isn't going to try and steal the show from the main event. He's just going to do his job. But when it's time for him to step it up in a mainevent, he'll do that too. When it's time to get speared through a baricade, he'll do it, sell it like a pro and make a star in Roman Reigns. The guy is an ultimate pro, and that's why he has so much respect in the company.
 

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Meltzer doesn't like Kane? Holy shit, stop the press, hold the phone. We might as well pop Kane straight into the queue at the job centre.

Oh wait, it's just some guy with his little awards. Kane, for longevity alone, has had a remarkable career. To dissect his feuds, moveset and matches would take days. That's nothing but a compliment in my mind.

Of course having somebody who is well known and widely respected rating your matches 5 stars would be a bonus, but Kane has been trusted in high profile stories and matches consistently since his debut in the mid 90s, so I doubt he loses sleep.
 

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Why does it matter what Meltzer said about Kane in the first place?

HBK/Taker at WM 25 isn't 5 stars. 5 stars means perfect. Taker fucking up that dive and landing on his head and stopping that match for like 5 minutes was atrocious.

He needs to be smacked for not rating Angle/Benoit from the 03 Rumble or Triple H/Austin from No Way Out 01 5 stars, though.
:stupid:

First of all, Snuka was the one who botched.

Second of all, only a moron would say that drama didn't add to the tension of the match. With all the referee rushing and count out, plus the crowds reaction.
 

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He gets stuck in crappy feuds, but the guy is awesome on the mic and at his age he can go in the ring better than most 25 year olds. His in ring has actually gotten better with time.
 

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Bam Bam Bigelow, Vader, Dr. Death Steve Williams, Kobashi, and Misawa all say whats up
Well first off, no, no, obviously speaking in North American terms as I think comparing NA to Japanese is stupid, and repeat.

I think a lot of people really underrate Kane as a performer. He had some great work and then got a few injuries and was then stuck in a position where he basically just didn't care any more.

He had solid great work for years, and has had solid good work since - apart from the storylines which aren't really something you can blame him for.
 
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