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Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the nWo?

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I think Raven was the primary antagonist in the WcW mid card. He had a faction, everyone hated him, and he won matches nearly every time. He knew how to wrestle, had Raven's rules, and promos were amazing.

Unfortunately, it was a time when Hogan, Nash, and the NWO were taking the main event every ppv. After the NWO had finally faded, who were the mega heels? Jeff Jarret and a guitar? Rap is Crap? Heel Sting? Jericho yes, but he was stuck in mid card till he split. Unless I am mistaken, there wasn't anybody that could draw such heat that Raven and Hollywood Hogan were able to draw.

I wonder how well he could have taken over as top heel after Hogan finally stepped away.

edit: as soon as I pushed submit, I realized I completely forgot about Scott Steiner.
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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

He could have been a top heel but WCW really didn't have anything for him after The Flock broke up, Raven's group including himself prospering after nWo's factions weren't in the spotlight is more of a saving grace.
 
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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

No, but he should have been. Give him a short face run after The Flock disbands, then turn him loose on his own by feuding with Piper & Sting.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

It all depends on booking mostly, he was a huge heel in ECW because of great booking.
 
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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

I think it's possible but a few things prior to that would have to be changed, such as:


1. The Raven vs. DDP feud ends at Spring Stampede with the Bowery Death Match, debut of Horace and Raven winning the United States title.

2. They began the Goldberg/Flock angle prior to Spring Stampede (where Goldberg faced Saturn). Instead of that, always tease Goldberg vs. Saturn but at Spring Stampede, make it Goldberg vs. Van Hammer or another member of The Flock who won't be hurt by getting squashed. As Raven said Kevin Sullivan told him, "Some must die so that others may live."

3. Goldberg vs. Raven is planned for Slamboree but Raven "injures" his ankle at Spring Stampede. See, if Raven's gonna be a top heel post-nWo, he can't wrestle Goldberg at this time. Using the injury angle and allowing a member of The Flock (Lodi, who was the kiss ass of the group) to defend and lose the belt on his behalf protects him, continues to build Goldberg and plants the seeds for the eventual break up of The Flock, via Saturn losing to Goldberg at Bash at the Beach (BTW, Goldberg doesn't face Hogan until Starrcade) because The Flock wouldn't (and couldn't) help him.

4. Between July and September, slowly break up The Flock. Saturn is able to set everybody free except for Lodi (who's the WCW version of Stevie Richards, based on his loyalty to the Raven character). Also, Kanyon joins Raven. So, at Fall Brawl, Saturn beats Raven to free everybody except for Lodi and Kanyon. They, along with Raven, are off TV until December.

5. The night after Starrcade (where Goldberg beats Hogan), The Flock randomly return to sitting in the front row. Meanwhile, you have the Goldberg/Bigelow angle, with Bigelow not being recognized as working for WCW. They show a recap of Goldberg beating Hogan, which Raven interrupts. He cuts a promo about Goldberg being the dominant force in WCW and beating Hogan, Sting, DDP, The Giant but "What about me? What about Raven?" He says while Goldberg won his United States title, he did it by beating his "lackadaisical lackey", Lodi (who Raven pushes, as he says it). And since Goldberg has new gold, it's time for Raven to get back what's rightfully his. He wants a United States title match tonight. It's time for the match but it never starts, as Kanyon and Lodi try to fight off Goldberg. Bigelow shows up, attacks Goldberg and joins The Flock as Raven's new enforcer. What this does is rebuild The Flock but more importantly, it's the first (perhaps second) time Goldberg has been vulnerable.



The idea of Raven being a top heel is heavily dependent on him having lackeys to protect him. That's the main reason the character was so good. The Raven character surrounds himself with people he feels are inferior to him, which allows him to control them and have them do his bidding. That way, it's easier for him to get heat not only because the Raven's Rules concept opens the door for heelish fuckery but the fact that he's taking advantage of the "lost souls" that worship him. Again, "some must die so that others may live." Raven's using these guys. That's what got Stevie, Meanie and Nova so over in ECW.


The trigger should be pulled the minute Goldberg leaves to shoot the movie in May. After the Goldberg/Bigelow feud ends, Raven moves on because he's got his belt back. But that's not enough. Because the fact that Goldberg won the US Title in the first place took Raven to a very dark place. So dark, that he called a former heated rival in Hak (The Sandman) to help him avenge the emotional pain brought upon by Goldberg stealing his title. Now, it's time for payback and the night after Slamboree, The Flock attack Goldberg. He fights them off, Raven DDT's him. He no sells, sets up to spear Raven but the lights go out. When they come back on, Raven is on his knees doing his signature pose and behind Goldberg stands Hak, who canes the shit out of Goldberg. Raven ends up "injuring" Goldberg's arm, which is the storyline exit for Goldberg, who also gets stripped of the World Title.

Raven wins the World Title and when Goldberg comes back, it's hell to pay.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

Shit, I would've been happy if he got an actual US title run instead of fodder for Goldy
Agreed. They spent nearly a year building him up. He was a very interesting and unique heel outside the nWO. He helped make WCW cool, but adding a cultural topical character, instead of someone bland, or out of date. They gave Raven some great mid card feuds with Benoit and DDP.
Feeding him to Goldberg the night after he won the title annoyed me. After that loss he seemed marginalized. I understand moving Goldberg up the card with a belt, but it only hurt their mid card depth.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

Yes, he definitely could have been A top heel, but that sort of move requires foresight and the willingness for certain egos to step aside. I think a Sting/Raven program post-Starrcade '97 could have been Sting's "Austin/Dude Love" feud post-Starrcade '97. A break from the nWo and a way to put Sting over for whoever his next nWo feud was with (Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, or Randy Savage).

I don't think Raven ever could have supplanted Hollywood Hogan as top heel overall, but he could have been a fresh main event opponent. The Boba Fett to Hogan's Darth Vader.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

The top heels after the nWo totally disbanded in mid 1999 are the following (Off the top of my head)

Randy Savage, Sid Vicious, Diamond Dallas Page, Ric Flair, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner and they turned both Roddy Piper and Kevin Nash during that time.

With that in mind I don't see a real shot for Raven there. Too many big name stars at the top. I think Raven's best shot would have been late 1999 and into early 2000. Obviously he left in late 1999 and was long gone in 2000 but I think 2000 would have been the ideal year for Raven to get a push because WCW had very little main event heels with Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger and Ric Flair being the only top heels who actually were booed.

Could very easily see Raven/Sting instead of Sting/Vampiro in the Millionaires Club Vs New Blood feud.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

A big missed opportunity was not having The Flock feud with the nWo or nWo Wolfpac. That would've made for some good TV.

- Vic
Could have done a whole "Outcasts Vs Jocks" thing. nWo Wolfpac very much were jockish type characters especially since both Nash and Luger were professional athletes at one point.

Flock very much outcasts with their long hair and assorted problems as characters. Characters that the high school outcasts everywhere could probably relate to.

Don't know why they didn't do it even if it was only for a couple months.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

Nope. Guy was directionless after the flock. I like Raven but I believe the internet overrates him because he has a bright wrestling mind (except for a few cases were his ideas make him look like a nutjob)
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

He could have been no doubt. He had all the tools at the time, abilities, look, great on the mic and tons of charisma, but sadly they didn't pull the trigger on him.
 

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re: Could Raven have been a top heel in WCW after the NWO?

Everyone has great ideas for a main event run, but let's not forget that, at the time, Hogan was a drugged up, egocentric asshole that only Eric Bischoff had the patience to deal with, and I'm saying that as a fan of his.
Well, when you put it that way.... sounds perfect for the 90s.
 
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