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I've read AEW wants to be more like a sport, have wins and losses matter, be the alternative to WWE, etc.

By now you've likely seen the female ref Aubrey Edwards. She's been getting praise, in my opinion rightfully so. She's not an idiot; not scripted to be an idiot. Two cases that made her stand out to me and engage me more in the product:

1) Shawn Spears hits Cody with a chair then turns and glares at Brandi. Edwards gets between them and shakes her head. To me, signaling a "don't you dare".

2) Jericho pushed Edwards, yelling at get for not counting to 3. Edwards scolded Jericho and reminded him she's the ref, not to put his hands on her.

A lot of this is awesome in that we're seeing a woman stick up for herself. But, we're also seeing a ref stick up for themselves and not be a punk to wrestlers, oblivious to wrong doing. It's a very subtle involvement from the refs, but not having them be helpless NPCs gives an edge to the product. Everyone wants to talk about the quality of wrestling or the mature storylines, but a real ref bring competent and in charge really helps set the atmosphere for a more serious product.

I just needed to rant that. Some idiots were bashing people praising Edwards, saying it's only because she's a woman. I disagree. It's because AEW is letting her do her job, and other refs, unlike many promotions before.

... Thoughts?
 

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I've read AEW wants to be more like a sport, have wins and losses matter, be the alternative to WWE, etc.

By now you've likely seen the female ref Aubrey Edwards. She's been getting praise, in my opinion rightfully so. She's not an idiot; not scripted to be an idiot. Two cases that made her stand out to me and engage me more in the product:

1) Shawn Spears hits Cody with a chair then turns and glares at Brandi. Edwards gets between them and shakes her head. To me, signaling a "don't you dare".

2) Jericho pushed Edwards, yelling at get for not counting to 3. Edwards scolded Jericho and reminded him she's the ref, not to put his hands on her.

A lot of this is awesome in that we're seeing a woman stick up for herself. But, we're also seeing a ref stick up for themselves and not be a punk to wrestlers, oblivious to wrong doing. It's a very subtle involvement from the refs, but not having them be helpless NPCs gives an edge to the product. Everyone wants to talk about the quality of wrestling or the mature storylines, but a real ref bring competent and in charge really helps set the atmosphere for a more serious product.

I just needed to rant that. Some idiots were bashing people praising Edwards, saying it's only because she's a woman. I disagree. It's because AEW is letting her do her job, and other refs, unlike many promotions before.

... Thoughts?
Not particular to her, but have we gotten any clear idea of what it even takes to get DQ’d in AEW?
 

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Hands on a referee should be a big time fine, kayfabe wise of course. Jericho pushing the referee - referee pushed back stuff doesn't work with female referees. Also it's from an era when referees were there to be bullied and intimidated by the talent for the little guy ref to have had enough and fire back. In all other sports the referees don't take any shit from players - on the field of play they are the boss and they have that mindset. Even in MMA when the fighters are in hand to hand combat and the referee is a lot smaller in some cases, fighters at the high levels do not think about going at a ref.

Refs and umpires let more things go in big games than in earlier season games or prelim fights - same could still happen in AEW - referee discretion. Lower level matches should be ruled with an iron fist rules wise. But title fights get more leeway.
 
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Not particular to her, but have we gotten any clear idea of what it even takes to get DQ’d in AEW?
the spears cody match made this very unclear. the lifting belt was clearly made out to be a dangerous weapon that deserves DQ for being used, but a regular belt (still a weapon) was allowed to be used right in front of the ref.
 
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I've read AEW wants to be more like a sport, have wins and losses matter, be the alternative to WWE, etc.

By now you've likely seen the female ref Aubrey Edwards. She's been getting praise, in my opinion rightfully so. She's not an idiot; not scripted to be an idiot. Two cases that made her stand out to me and engage me more in the product:

1) Shawn Spears hits Cody with a chair then turns and glares at Brandi. Edwards gets between them and shakes her head. To me, signaling a "don't you dare".

2) Jericho pushed Edwards, yelling at get for not counting to 3. Edwards scolded Jericho and reminded him she's the ref, not to put his hands on her.

A lot of this is awesome in that we're seeing a woman stick up for herself. But, we're also seeing a ref stick up for themselves and not be a punk to wrestlers, oblivious to wrong doing. It's a very subtle involvement from the refs, but not having them be helpless NPCs gives an edge to the product. Everyone wants to talk about the quality of wrestling or the mature storylines, but a real ref bring competent and in charge really helps set the atmosphere for a more serious product.

I just needed to rant that. Some idiots were bashing people praising Edwards, saying it's only because she's a woman. I disagree. It's because AEW is letting her do her job, and other refs, unlike many promotions before.

... Thoughts?
Not particular to her, but have we gotten any clear idea of what it even takes to get DQ’d in AEW?
lmao yeah like nothing will get you DQd. It is nice to see referees have freedom to make these decisions

But honestly, it’s nice to see referees actually have character. Because it can change the whole dynamic of the match. Is the referee strict or lenient? Is the ref a fast or slow counter? Is the ref fair or unfair? Is the referee gonna bump after an accidental punch or do they literally need to take a finisher to get knocked out?

A heel ref can really help get someone over. Imagine a face overcoming not only their opposition, but overcome fast counts, weapon use etc.

Like Austin said, you have the piss off the viewers to have them return and watch again. A heel ref helping a heel retain his belt will piss off viewers. It’s a fantastic breath of fresh air.
 

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If you want realistic referees go watch Rocky Mountain Pro with Vince Russo writing for them.

They’ve legit got realistic rules in place that do away with all the referee tropes that we’ve come to accept over the years.

AEW is nowhere near realistic in this area, you’ve just accepted a showman’s schema about referees that’s been crafted over decades.
 

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I don't really see how refs are in any way a factor in wrestling.
 

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I've read AEW wants to be more like a sport, have wins and losses matter, be the alternative to WWE, etc.

By now you've likely seen the female ref Aubrey Edwards. She's been getting praise, in my opinion rightfully so. She's not an idiot; not scripted to be an idiot. Two cases that made her stand out to me and engage me more in the product:

1) Shawn Spears hits Cody with a chair then turns and glares at Brandi. Edwards gets between them and shakes her head. To me, signaling a "don't you dare".

2) Jericho pushed Edwards, yelling at get for not counting to 3. Edwards scolded Jericho and reminded him she's the ref, not to put his hands on her.

A lot of this is awesome in that we're seeing a woman stick up for herself. But, we're also seeing a ref stick up for themselves and not be a punk to wrestlers, oblivious to wrong doing. It's a very subtle involvement from the refs, but not having them be helpless NPCs gives an edge to the product. Everyone wants to talk about the quality of wrestling or the mature storylines, but a real ref bring competent and in charge really helps set the atmosphere for a more serious product.

I just needed to rant that. Some idiots were bashing people praising Edwards, saying it's only because she's a woman. I disagree. It's because AEW is letting her do her job, and other refs, unlike many promotions before.

... Thoughts?
It would be a great moment if a heel tries to force a ref bump to cause a DQ, only for the referee for once to not be made of paper chips, shrug it off, and continue the match.
 

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lmao yeah like nothing will get you DQd. It is nice to see referees have freedom to make these decisions

But honestly, it’s nice to see referees actually have character. Because it can change the whole dynamic of the match. Is the referee strict or lenient? Is the ref a fast or slow counter? Is the ref fair or unfair? Is the referee gonna bump after an accidental punch or do they literally need to take a finisher to get knocked out?

A heel ref can really help get someone over. Imagine a face overcoming not only their opposition, but overcome fast counts, weapon use etc.

Like Austin said, you have the piss off the viewers to have them return and watch again. A heel ref helping a heel retain his belt will piss off viewers. It’s a fantastic breath of fresh air.
I’d be surprised if they go heel ref because that’s good for a one-time pop but after that every time the heel ref shows up you expect shenanigans.

And putting focus on officials rather than the wrestlers is a tricky proposition.
 

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As far as DQ's are concerned I'm assuming they are going more the New Japan route where it's all referee discretion. Meaning they will have a let them fight sort of mentality. I will admit however, it does still feel very sloppy with how they haven't seemed to set any ground rules as of yet.

Also I really dislike the idea that refs should in anyway be a centerpiece of a match outside of a spot. Red shoes Unno is for sure my perfect example of what a ref should be. I think Aubrey Edwards got too involved and has too much of a presence. A Ref shouldn't distract from the match.
 

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lmao yeah like nothing will get you DQd. It is nice to see referees have freedom to make these decisions

But honestly, it’s nice to see referees actually have character. Because it can change the whole dynamic of the match. Is the referee strict or lenient? Is the ref a fast or slow counter? Is the ref fair or unfair? Is the referee gonna bump after an accidental punch or do they literally need to take a finisher to get knocked out?

A heel ref can really help get someone over. Imagine a face overcoming not only their opposition, but overcome fast counts, weapon use etc.

Like Austin said, you have the piss off the viewers to have them return and watch again. A heel ref helping a heel retain his belt will piss off viewers. It’s a fantastic breath of fresh air.
I’d be surprised if they go heel ref because that’s good for a one-time pop but after that every time the heel ref shows up you expect shenanigans.

And putting focus on officials rather than the wrestlers is a tricky proposition.
the focus you’re talking about is how it’s booked. It’ll get a chicken shit heel over. It’ll get a determined face over. And when someone puts his hands on the ref it’ll get him over.

You can book it tastefully or you can go full focus on referee antics which isn’t needed. A spot in a match is enough. WWE booked the heel referee tastefully many times. Why can’t AEW do it
 

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Edwards was great at DON but All Out was too much. Refs being more organic and human than in WWE is a good thing, but they are not supposed to be the story. It’s a fine line.

Just try and stay away from the tropes that WWE engages with too often. There’s a reason the “Dusty finish” became known as such. It’s a lot harder to stay out of patterns than people realize. I recommend recording all your gimmicks and before you do something fucky, check when and where you last did it. Someone’s job should be to search by town, by finish and by gimmick. Those ideas are barred from use.
 

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Edwards was great at DON but All Out was too much. Refs being more organic and human than in WWE is a good thing, but they are not supposed to be the story. It’s a fine line.

Just try and stay away from the tropes that WWE engages with too often. There’s a reason the “Dusty finish” became known as such. It’s a lot harder to stay out of patterns than people realize. I recommend recording all your gimmicks and before you do something fucky, check when and where you last did it. Someone’s job should be to search by town, by finish and by gimmick. Those ideas are barred from use.
Make sure Cody finish doesn’t become a thing, lol
 

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I don't really see how refs are in any way a factor in wrestling.
Agreed.

Ref spots, from bumps to miscues, should be few and far between.

They're just such an over-played thing at this point.

Time for the refs to go unnoticed for a little bit, if only so moments involving the ref become more meaningful and less predictable.
 

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How the fuck would a competent ref change anything in a scripted sport? It’s clear you just wanted to rally for the SJW’s who think AEW are heroes for putting a female ref in the main event.

Especially since the two completely underwhelming examples you have are ref spots that happen in literally every WWE match.


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Discussion Starter #17
How the fuck would a competent ref change anything in a scripted sport? It’s clear you just wanted to rally for the SJW’s who think AEW are heroes for putting a female ref in the main event.

Especially since the two completely underwhelming examples you have are ref spots that happen in literally every WWE match.


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In the past 19 years a WWE ref has never stood up to a WWE wrestler and gotten between people during a tv or ppv episode.

Competent Refs would distinguish aew from WWE. I've never watched WWE with someone new and not heard "how did the ref not see that?", "Why are they counting so slow?", or "come on! He barely hit him!". Someone taking a ref more seriously is the step in the right direction.

I already covered that it wasn't sjw pandering. If you want to dismiss what I said for no reason, that's your ignorant battle.
 

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It would be crazy if a champion had a submission hold on a challenger, and then the challenger reversed it and a referee claimed the champion tapped thus losing the belt.

WCCW had referee David Manning who stood up to Bill Irvin so often that an angle happened. Irvin, a heel, claiming Manning was not fair. WCCW liked to do back stories for talent, Manning was a martial arts teacher from what I remember.

Bronko Lubich was also a referee in WCCW. He was older and would just kind of drop to one knee to do the laziest counts.

There may have been a time to have referees not knowing their job well enough. Now, I would maybe use a "rookie" referee to miss things. It does help to miss illegal action. Better with managers and tag teams when all four in spots. Also, heels taking advantage of refs allows the need for "special referees" with other wrestlers playing the part. The Freebird vs Von Erich feud started when Michael Hayes tried to help Kerry Von Erich win the title from Ric Flair. Also, some people like heel "special referees" to cheat the face. I don't. I think the heel authority is stupid.

I would think with out managers, with out heels who cheat... when are referees missing things? Also, instant replay. Back in the day, a heel would use a foreign object, load a glove, whatever. Then the next week, the association would have viewed tape and made a decision.

UFC refs stop fights too soon... too late. Boxing, take point away or not. MLB strike zones differ with umpires. NBA, worst refs and fouls are different. So wrestling refs could know what their doing, but still make mistakes.
 
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