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Btw there was no Candian destoryer off a ladder. He jumped off the ladder and hit a normal one. It was a dumb as fuck spot but he did not kick out of a Candian destoryer off a ladder.
Gargano hit a Canadian Destroyer on Cole from the top turnbuckle. That's the spot where Cole kicked out at 2.
 

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Roy "Gambit" Mustang
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Gargano hit a Canadian Destroyer on Cole from the top turnbuckle. That's the spot where Cole kicked out at 2.
That is still not off the ladder and not the spot I was on about. I heard all day about one off a ladder but it was just Cole jumping to the floor and hitting a normal one :heston.

That spot was also silly imo too if you are not doing it to finish the match. The match was a fucking car wreck. A fun car wreck but a total car wreck
 

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That is still not off the ladder and not the spot I was on about. I heard all day about one off a ladder but it was just Cole jumping to the floor and hitting a normal one :heston.

That spot was also silly imo too if you are not doing it to finish the match. The match was a fucking car wreck. A fun car wreck but a total car wreck

Fair enough.


To me it was Cirque du Soleil being performed by masochists. Can't really describe it any other way.
 

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#1 Somamaniac
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I'll be perfectly honest, I didn't expect anything other than what we had. Which is a shame because that first fall, whist above average, at best, was a solid way to lead into a potential second fall build around Gargano using weapons to destroy Cole's already hurt leg but then they dropped that compelling and went off in the direction they went in. Totally unsurprising.

Gargano, has always been a bad wrestler w/ very small flashes of brilliance, in my opinion. His self conscious epics have been a marring the product since early 2018. With the help of Michaels and his agenting, of course. He just isn't good, and how no clue on how to build drama and tension effectively, nor knows how to pace the match.

Cole, can do better, but he hasn't shown it in years. He has been the better of the two in the series but his selling and his 50/50 sequences totally ruined any good will he brought to the match.
 

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Waiting for Kawato
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They are ridiculous together. I thought the final fall of the first match was so absurdly stupid it ruined the first two falls, and the nice post match stuff, and the fact people seriously championed it over Walter and Dunne from earlier in the evening was madness. The second match I barely even remember other than thinking it was basically just the final fall from their previous effort stretched out to feature length, and no less stupid.

This one just took it to the next level. I actually didn't mind the first fall and think it was the best they'd been together since the first two falls of their first match, but as SOON as Gargano didn't immediately go for the pin after battering him with the chair the thing descended into levels of stupidity from which it showed no interest in recovering.
 

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THE NXT CHAMP BAYBAY !
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I do agree Gargano should've immediately went for the pin in the second fall, but I think it plays into Johnny's character arc that he usually lets anger get the best of him and goes overboard. So he tried to beat the shit out of Cole in the second fall for Cole using the lowblow and bragging sitting on the chair.
 

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Baby Yoda
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So if that's the case, why would you claim that Meltzer usually isn't off on his ratings like you did after the first Gargano/Cole match? This literally contradicts that statement. Either you have watched the matches and this is your attempt at saving face, or you are flip flopping your opinions again. Which is it?



He's not in any all time great in-ring discussion, not even close. He has yet to showcase that he can perform legitimately great matches under a limited and boxed environment, and he has yet to demonstrate that he even understands the most basic concepts of storytelling. Until he can do that, he hasn't earned that right to be called one of the greats in the ring. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. So it doesn't surprise me that you're saying this.



And the majority rate Kurt Angle highly, especially his early run in the WWE, despite the guy literally admitting he had no idea what he was doing for, at the very least, the first two and a half years of his career. I'm not denying that a lot of people rate him highly. What I do deny is this idea that the majority of those people have any basic understanding of in-ring work and what made legends of the past so good at it. Because they clearly aren't comparing these guys to them when judging just how good they are.

And you're just proving my point for me by pointing out that people would rank him that highly based on match catalog. Match catalog doesn't make someone one of the all time greats in the ring. It's what you do in the ring that matters.

Just an FYI, the match with Almas as well as some of Gargano's other "classics" in NXT are basically the same as the matches with Cole. The only reason people are rating those more highly at this point is because Gargano didn't have an opponent that felt like a carbon copy of him in terms of how he performed in the ring. Otherwise, those matches still had the same problems: repetitive moves, little to no selling and consistently fast paced action with little to no slow down time.



And this just once again goes back to the argument many others and I have been making against why you are a terrible poster on this site. You just claimed it would be tough to argue against Gargano being one of the all time greats because of how other people with no knowledge of Pro Wrestling feel about him. Learn to form your own opinions. It's not difficult to demonstrate why a literal spot monkey isn't one of the all time greats in the ring. If you had any basic understanding of this, it wouldn't be difficult to call it into question. Look how many people even now are criticizing Gargano's style of wrestling. There isn't anything special about their knowledge of Pro Wrestling, and the same can be said about me. You just have to KNOW stuff.
If I watched the matches, I would have given them a rating given the reviews for the match. I never gave any of their matches a rating outside the third and I wrote I had not seen it and only heard of the spots and seen some clips online which made me give it a rating.

I don't have the network, so it's either watching it live or not watching it at all unless it involves a favorite of mine or the reviews are really good. The reviews for Gargano-Cole were good, but it's not the type of match I enjoy. I'm not going to find a link to watch and spend 40-50 mins of my day to watch something I know I'll hate, then there's 10-20 mins looking for a good quality working link.

https://www.wrestlingforum.com/search.php?searchid=34927394
https://www.wrestlingforum.com/search.php?searchid=34927412&pp=20
 

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If Cole and Gargano aren't your cup of tea, that's fine. Say that.

But to say they suck is ludicrous.
But they do suck though. Gargano is a shit talker with no charisma who looks like he works at McDonalds, Cole has some charisma and can talk a little, but looks comically emaciated, like get that guy a fucking feeding tube or some shit, fucking guy looks like the male version of Eugenia Cooney, it's fucking ridiculous. Neither guy can work at all, it's all high spot no sell nonsense that any athletic person in the world can do. Seriously, any above average varsity high school athlete can do the spots they do, it's not really a big deal. They're not really good at any element of pro wrestling whatsoever.
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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If I watched the matches, I would have given them a rating given the reviews for the match. I never gave any of their matches a rating outside the third and I wrote I had not seen it and only heard of the spots and seen some clips online which made me give it a rating.
So you are flip flopping on your opinions again. Good to know. I look forward to you claiming people are idiots for liking a show when you see Meltzer give underwhelming ratings on it like you did with the last PPV.

I don't have the network, so it's either watching it live or not watching it at all unless it involves a favorite of mine or the reviews are really good. The reviews for Gargano-Cole were good, but it's not the type of match I enjoy.
Bullshit. Your tag line under your name is "All in with All Elite Wrestling" which showcases pretty much the exact same style of wrestling. NXT is about as close to AEW as you can get. You've had sigs, and avatars, dedicated to AEW, so clearly, you are a fan of them. So don't even try to tell us that Gargano/Cole isn't your cup of tea, especially when one of your favorites, AJ Styles, has also been known for working the same exact style that they do (he's not as obnoxious with it, but he most certainly does it).

I'm not going to find a link to watch and spend 40-50 mins of my day to watch something I know I'll hate, then there's 10-20 mins looking for a good quality working link.
If you're not going to take the time to watch a match, then don't use the match to call a bunch of people morons for liking it like you did earlier in the thread.

If Cole and Gargano aren't your cup of tea, that's fine. Say that.

But to say they suck is ludicrous.
It's not ludicrous at all. There are very good cases to be made regarding why they are poor Pro Wrestlers.
 

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If the crowd are going fucking crazy for two wrestlers' matches those wrestlers objectively don't suck, you just don't like them. Gargano is an absolutely amazing wrestler.
 

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That match last night was one of the worst matches I’ve ever seen. I hated their first two matches, but this was a new low. Made absolutely zero sense, stupidly long, no logic, Fake ass epic. Just the absolute fucking worst.

Cole has always been shitty and overrated but Gargano was having 5 Star matches with Almas and Ciampa not that long ago. Wtf happened?
 

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I couldn't give a flying fuck about Gargano. Cole as charisma at least. I totally agree that no selling sucks on the wrong guys. Gargano is a geek and I don't buy him as a tough guy in any situation.
 

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So you are flip flopping on your opinions again. Good to know. I look forward to you claiming people are idiots for liking a show when you see Meltzer give underwhelming ratings on it like you did with the last PPV.



Bullshit. Your tag line under your name is "All in with All Elite Wrestling" which showcases pretty much the exact same style of wrestling. NXT is about as close to AEW as you can get. You've had sigs, and avatars, dedicated to AEW, so clearly, you are a fan of them. So don't even try to tell us that Gargano/Cole isn't your cup of tea, especially when one of your favorites, AJ Styles, has also been known for working the same exact style that they do (he's not as obnoxious with it, but he most certainly does it).



If you're not going to take the time to watch a match, then don't use the match to call a bunch of people morons for liking it like you did earlier in the thread.



It's not ludicrous at all. There are very good cases to be made regarding why they are poor Pro Wrestlers.

No there aren't. It's your opinion. There is no real way to measure this stuff although I could make a case that them main eventing the last 3 shows for the 2nd biggest wrestling brand in the world says they do not suck.



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Magic, sparkles and Strap-ons!
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It doesn't matter that this small niche crowd loved it. The Young Bucks get cheers in small shows and they're still bad.

Everyone should know by now that a vocal minority means jack shit, we seen it happen on Twitter where properties and products cater to some minor base or some random demographic and have no success. The only times it's worked is when a property is so big it survives or it breaks even.

Putting on these types of matches is embarrassing. Not only is it goofy as fuck but desensitizes the audience to where you're in bad anime territory. You know where they make something so over the top that you keep having to one up it because you wrote yourself into a corner. That's what these types of matches are.

I'm not a size queen or a fan of the Orton snail paced matches but there needs to be some middle ground!
 

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If the crowd are going fucking crazy for two wrestlers' matches those wrestlers objectively don't suck, you just don't like them. Gargano is an absolutely amazing wrestler.
So a crowd cheers for a match and that is somehow an indication of objective greatness?

I'm not saying that either guy sucks but your idea of what objectivity is scares me.

Not only are crowds that are in an arena far too small a portion of a fanbase to determine that they speak for enough of the audience to form what may be a consensus opinion on a performer or a match but crowds can literally only determine if the enjoy things based on their own preferences and therefore cannot be objective.

At WrestleMania 33 the crowd went absolutely batshit crazy for Lesnar/Goldberg but that doesn't make them objectively great wrestlers nor is it cause to call their match a classic it's a gaggle of people that were entertained at the moment by something. You wouldn't call Fast and Furious great movies just because they made an ass load of money, would you?
 

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THE MAN has come around to collect her debts.
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I knew they were gonna do that spotty, endless kicking out, superkick spamming shit. Definitely won't be watching it now.
 
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