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Cole/Gargano matches are fucking lit!
 

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Under Jolly Roger
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421 Posts
"choreographed gymnastics"

That's pretty much all wrestling is.
The whole point of wrestling is to get the crowd to suspend their disbelief and get invested in the story of a match. Prancing around like you're Billy sodding Elliot is the worst way to do that.
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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Get a grip, I haven't seen any of their matches and chose not to because I knew they weren't a type of match I'd enjoy given what I read on it. I'd rather not go back and watch something when I know I'll hate it.
So if that's the case, why would you claim that Meltzer usually isn't off on his ratings like you did after the first Gargano/Cole match? This literally contradicts that statement. Either you have watched the matches and this is your attempt at saving face, or you are flip flopping your opinions again. Which is it?

People loved the matches, the consensus/majority seem to eat them up judging by the reviews on cagematch, VoV, Meltzer and social media. So of course he's in the all time in ring discussion especially considering matches that create the same kind of buzz, or receive that kind of adulation has been rare on the main roster for years.
He's not in any all time great in-ring discussion, not even close. He has yet to showcase that he can perform legitimately great matches under a limited and boxed environment, and he has yet to demonstrate that he even understands the most basic concepts of storytelling. Until he can do that, he hasn't earned that right to be called one of the greats in the ring. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. So it doesn't surprise me that you're saying this.

I've enjoyed Gargano's run outside his feud with Cole and can see him making a good argument for it given his match catalog and general view of his matches. It would be ignorant to think otherwise, you might not rate him highly but the majority appear to.
And the majority rate Kurt Angle highly, especially his early run in the WWE, despite the guy literally admitting he had no idea what he was doing for, at the very least, the first two and a half years of his career. I'm not denying that a lot of people rate him highly. What I do deny is this idea that the majority of those people have any basic understanding of in-ring work and what made legends of the past so good at it. Because they clearly aren't comparing these guys to them when judging just how good they are.

And you're just proving my point for me by pointing out that people would rank him that highly based on match catalog. Match catalog doesn't make someone one of the all time greats in the ring. It's what you do in the ring that matters.

Just an FYI, the match with Almas as well as some of Gargano's other "classics" in NXT are basically the same as the matches with Cole. The only reason people are rating those more highly at this point is because Gargano didn't have an opponent that felt like a carbon copy of him in terms of how he performed in the ring. Otherwise, those matches still had the same problems: repetitive moves, little to no selling and consistently fast paced action with little to no slow down time.

If he were to produce several more classics in NXT and produce several great matches on the main roster, it would be tough to look past him in terms of match catalog in the WWE. Then it's down to what you value most and if you put producing in NXT on the same level as on the main roster/ or value actual in ring ability over match catalog.
And this just once again goes back to the argument many others and I have been making against why you are a terrible poster on this site. You just claimed it would be tough to argue against Gargano being one of the all time greats because of how other people with no knowledge of Pro Wrestling feel about him. Learn to form your own opinions. It's not difficult to demonstrate why a literal spot monkey isn't one of the all time greats in the ring. If you had any basic understanding of this, it wouldn't be difficult to call it into question. Look how many people even now are criticizing Gargano's style of wrestling. There isn't anything special about their knowledge of Pro Wrestling, and the same can be said about me. You just have to KNOW stuff.
 

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Listen to me, When the times comes, you gotta run
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527 Posts
I'm going to preface that I like stuff like the Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and kicking out of finishers usually does not bother me but last night was massive fucking overkill.

It was finisher after finished, real lack of psychology and towards the end you wish it would just end. Say whatever about the Bucks but atleast a Meltzer Driver usually ends a match, Omega a One Winged Angel is a match finisher and Kenny matches usually have pretty good Psychology which this match lacked.
 

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I don't know about sucks, but I'm not as in awe of Gargano as most. Imo a lot of his matches going back to the Ciampa feud just suffer from being too long or having a dud finish.
 

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You could take every semi athletic person and they'd be able to do all the high spots these guys could within a few months. What they do isn't art, any simpleton with some athletic ability can do it.
 

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I just don't get it either. I don't like any of it. Way too fast paced and nothing means anything anymore. Also, that finisher was so silly. :lol:

As for Gargano... I'm sick of him. His whole gimmick is lame, his promos are lame, he sells with the same expression, etc. Cole is a bit more interesting, but same super fast spot monkey stuff... also would it kill him to look a little more intimidating physically? I mean, I'm not one to say someone's a vanilla midget, but couldn't he at least have a similar build to late 90's HBK?
 

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Yep. But worryingly according to a growing number people on here, it should be big sweaty men like Lashley and Baron Corbin grappling with each other at a mind numbingly slow pace. That has "character" and is "badass" apparently....????
You know theres a ton of area between "slow and plodding" and "just because I got destroyed with a chair doesn't mean I can't wrestle another 40 minutes".
 

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There's working a sort of American independent style and then there's being goofball and silly for an hour. I only really know about NXT from what I've seen from the Takeovers and a few matches people suggested to me, and my opinion is that Adam Cole and Johnny Gargano are pretty cool...when they aren't wrestling each other. Cole/Gargano II and III are criminally bad. Their other stuff is better, leagues better. These guys bring out the worst in each other.
Yeah this is about where I stand. I love Gargano as well as Cole and I wont stop just cause guys I like had some shitty performances I'mma stick by them as off days/poor pairings happen. However I'm also not going to deny the last few main events have been some shitty performances (mainly 2 and 3 the first had enough emotion in it I could get behind it despite being a bit over the top and a nice moment for Gargano) and I don't think these 2 work as a pairing overall and I hope they will be moving on from each other now so I can see them paired with people they work well against again cause I don't just want to see people I like I also want to see said people I like deliver and this pairing just doesn't do so for me personally despite them both being guys I like (Kind of like KO and AJ Styles in that regard)
 

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THE NXT CHAMP BAYBAY !
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I see a lot of people who may shit on the Cole/Gargano series but praise his matches against Almas, Ricochet, & Black. When in reality all those matches were the same style of no-selling spotty matches, it just happens that Cole & Gargano wrestle extremely similar in terms of styles whereas Ricochet is a high-flyer, Black is a striker & Almas is a lucha technician. Gargano in his entire NXT run for the most part has had big spotty matches.
 

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Cutting a Shoot Promo To Get Over
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5,454 Posts
I put this in the other thread but this is probably the better place;

Quick disclaimer that I loved the match at New York and I'm really into Adam Cole but I really didn't the match here. It was one of the most poorly put together and illogical matches I can remember.


  • These two guys are supposed to hate each other yet they are wrestling at the start with wristlocks
  • What the hell was the first fall? Gargano is an idiot. I got they we're doing the HHH vs HBK 2/3 falls spot when HHH wanted to throw HBK off the cage, so I'm fine with Gargano losing the first fall by DQ, but he has to attempt to go for the pin right away. He starts to hit Cole with the chair and I'm thinking this is clever and great, but then he sets up the chair and sits on it and lets Cole escape fpalm
  • I thought there was going to be tacks in the bag but instead Gargano gets out pliers and gets the barbed wire. btw Gargano is just holding the barbed wire like its nothing.
  • They we're kicking out of the Canadian destroyer 50 MINUTES INTO THE MATCH
  • The final spot was contrived. Why can't cole throw him off if you want Cole to win
The final spot was almost as bad as this spot.


Contrived and infuriating. I'm at least glad others are sharing some of these views, I expected to come on here and see ***** being thrown around.

A 20-minute cage match would have been far far better.
 
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