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Discussion Starter #41
DB's surfboard is literally his opponent waiting there cooperating while he locks the legs and gives him the arms. Asuka's pop up knee looks like her opponents jump to just get hit with a knee. And hell no I'm not saying Cole/Gargano are at the level of a daniel bryan in terms of workrate, I'm just saying there's always something in nearly every wrestling match that looks choreographed or like the two are "helping each other" as you put it. That is unless you watch shoot style matches like Suzuki v. Barnett.
Bryan and Asuka have never had anything close to as fake looking as the 3 Cole/Gargano matches.
 

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My kind of thread.

I'm just not finding this type of wrestling entertaining at all. Having a rehearsed match and looking like a rehearsed match are 2 different things.

These scream rehearsed, like they are performing a dance. You are anticipating the spots like one does in a dance, "Oh, here it comes! How beautifully executed!".

Both competitors are helping each other flip around, I just can't keep from being sucked out of believing they want to beat each other.

Also to add, it seems like this kind of wrestling is fucking trash when it comes to selling. This match for example, Cole would 'hurt' his knee, then do a super duper move, and be completely fine up until he has to do a spot that hurts his leg again. It's garbage.
 

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THE NXT CHAMP BAYBAY !
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Bryan and Asuka have never had anything close to as fake looking as the 3 Cole/Gargano matches.
Great in-depth response, you have a good night pal.
 

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Johnny Gargano was awesome in his tag team with Ciampa. Their match against The Revival in 2015 or whenever it was was fucking beautiful. The problem is, that has kind of become Gargano's gimmick. He now always tries to have "epic" matches, and the drama rings false a lot of the time. I think he's very good, but the psychology in his program with Ciampa was awful and I feel that it's such a overrated program. It killed a lot of my interest in even the Takeovers.

They did that awesome spot where Ciampa pulled off Gargano's ring and tossed it away. Holy shit. That is wonderful heel heat. But then Gargano's big comeback was to put Ciampa on his shoulders and jump off something high with him. Like...why? Just throw the guy off? Imagine if you were fighting for your wife's honor on a cliff, and she was cheering you on. Your enemy rips your ring off and throws it into the ocean. So your response is to pick him up and jump off the cliff with him, much to wife's horror. It actually made me laugh out loud when I saw it.

Adam Cole has grown on me. At first he just didn't...look right to me. He's not cut enough or something. Seems more like an attractive bartender than a bouncer, you know? But there's something about that I like. He's manipulative. He's like Ryan O'Reilly in Oz but in a wrestling setting. He's a guy that should have hired muscle (probably replace Bobby Fish with someone more threatening) and get others to do his dirty work, but being smart and resilient enough to pick the bones of whatever corpse he comes across. There's a place in wrestling for that. And he commits. But I don't need to hear "Bay-bay!" ever again.

I liked their 2/3 Falls Match. There was some cute stuff in it. I liked Gargano not wanting to win by countout, but that being totally fine with Cole. Um, I can't really remember the rest of it. I'd like to see them interject some of that cute stuff and the things they get really well into shorter matches with a wider variety of opponents and prove that they can really work. The structured to hell matches in the NXT environment where everyone in the audience is a trained seal to clap along and chant "This is awesome" when they do the double-knockdown spot creates a false atmosphere of effective drama.

Honestly, I want Adam Cole to fuck off from The Undisputed Era and become Randy Orton's bag carrier on SmackDown. It may not seem flattering, but him giving little eyes here and there to lead people to believe he's going to stab Orton in the back at some point could be great stuff.
 

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Baby Yoda
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I hate NXT crowds, these geeks would chant "Fight forever" for a 2* match like it's the greatest thing they've seen in their lives because they're a bunch of virgin neckbeards who think getting over on TV is cool.

It's a notable life achievement for these jabronis.

Sit the fuck down and stop trying to make the show about yourself.
 

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I don't know why matches can't find a middle ground. They're either super slow with nothing but punches and clotheslines, or guys are kicking out of being blasted in the face with a shotgun while thrown off a ladder.

I've either not watched or barely paid attention to the last several Takeovers, and I've slowly come to the conclusion that Gargano is one of the major issues. I know exactly what his matches are going to be like no matter who he's facing. It's going to be over 30 minutes and he's going to kick out of everything until he does something super dumb and defeats himself. He CAN wrestle, he CAN create drama, but he overdoes it and the shtick is growing tiresome. Also, he's gotta stay out of the title picture.
 

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They've always been fucking shit. They both look like total shit, Gargano is an awful promo, Cole is an average one, Gargano has zero charisma, Cole has some, both are complete garbage workers, total shit. High spot high spot high spot high spot high spot, false finish that has zero suspense because they kick out of everything, no sell, repeat. They are the worst. Random guys over time, Mark Jindrak, Snitsky, Heidenreich, Luther Reigns, Van Hammer, you name them, all better workers than they are, and significantly so. They don't know how to work, don't know how to sell, don't know how to tell stories, they just do random moves. Any somewhat athletic 16 year old high school football or basketball player can do what they do with like 3 months of training. It really isn't that special, at all.

These guys are the "future" of the business, it part of the reason why the business is going to absolute shit. You think it's hit rock bottom? Trot jobbers like these guys out on national TV and see what happens, you haven't seen anything yet. But Dave Meltzer will give it 5 and a half stars and his tiny army of 13-28 year old indy marks who don't know any better will go on message boards and talk about how these absolute nobodies are all time great workers and they'll bitch about how WWE is wasting all of this so called great talent. And people will continue to leave in droves, no one will watch on TV and no one will come to the arenas because these guys are an absolute joke, a bunch of small nobodies with no charisma who trained on a trampoline for a little while and are cosplaying wrestler. Any random guy who has played sport, any guy who has spent some time in a gym, any guy with an ounce of charisma and personality is a better option to put on national television and push than these two are. There are millions of random people in this country more suited for the spot Cole and Gargano are going to get. But these guys are going to "lead the way" for the next generation. The business is dead.
 

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I didn't know that. because I didn't watch it in over a while. but I remember pretty much every NJPW main event match I saw being over 30 minutes and it got very tiring to me.
The ones that get the most hype, and so are the most likely for you to have watched are often the 30 minute to 1 hour epics. The G1 in particular doesn't allow for those kinds of matches in the block matches but outside the G1 block and BOSJ block matchws, they do have an affinity for 30 minute plus main event matches. The G1 final is pretty much assured to go beyond 30 minutes at the very least.

I do agree with you that they really don't need to have so many long matches. My rule is, if you go above 20 minutes, it better be at least 4 stars. If you go beyond 30 minutes, it better be a fucking Match of the year candidate. Otherwise, I'll lost interest in the match
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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We're really doing this?

Johnny Gargano, who has had some of the best matches, singles or tag in NXT history and Adam Cole, who has had great matches and is one of the best characters in wrestling.

I mean I get not liking a match, or not liking a certain pairing even. But now "they suck".

I mean that's a definition of a knee jerk reaction.
First off, I wouldn't rank Cole anywhere close to being one of the best characters in wrestling. Second, having some of the best matches in NXT history isn't all that great of an accomplishment, since a lot of their most notable matches apart from the select few follow the same style as the one being discussed here. Third, it's not a knee jerk reaction. Gargano has been doing this shit since he came into the WWE, and this really took things to ridiculous levels. He's no different from Seth Rollins at this point.

It's a company wide problem for big matches, it's worse in NXT as there's more morons there who like this shit and eat it up.
Stop pretending that this is a view you've always had. Six months ago you were eating up the first Gargano/Cole match and proclaimed Gargano to be one of the best WWE performers of all time. Pick an opinion and stick with it.
 

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THE EXTREME HORSEMEN
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He kicked out of a Canadian Destroyer off a ladder...:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

I almost want to see this whole match just to laugh at how much I hate it. :lmao
Best part, mate, it was the FOURTH Destroyer of the match :lmao

Also, Cole nearly died when his face hit the top of an open chair, and then then they botched the finish.

But hey, NXT is the best, and these two are the GOAT's.
 

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Johnny Gargano really should have been up on Raw in 2016 with Ciampa as part of the tag scene with American Alpha and The Revival. It's a three hour show and it really could have used some hot in-ring action with those teams that had amazing chemistry. WWE always seems to be at least three years too slow.
 

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Asuka
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Amazing.

So, again, I ask, if Gargano can kick out of all of that nonsense, and Cole can beat him, why are these Supermen not on the main roster as the top guys trading the world title? I mean, if Johnny can kick out of Four Canadian Destroyers, especially one off a ladder, and another off the top rope, and those are just the ones I saw, then he can beat Brock Lesnar easily, right? He'll kick out of more F5's than Roman did. An F5 is like getting slapped with a Kleenex compared to a Canadian Destroyer.

Really makes you think what they're doing down there when they're the toughest guys in WWE. The main roster guys are pussies compared to them.
 

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I don't watch NXT because of the neckbeards.

My only exposure to Adam Cole is that stupid celebration he does "bay bay". And my only exposure to Gargano is a picture of him dressed as a comic book character.

Nice to hear they are also from the "kill yourself and your finish" school of wrestling.
 

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I don't watch NXT because of the neckbeards.
Talk about an ironic statement :lol

My only exposure to Adam Cole is that stupid celebration he does "bay bay". And my only exposure to Gargano is a picture of him dressed as a comic book character.

Nice to hear they are also from the "kill yourself and your finish" school of wrestling.
Oh, you wouldn't like both men anyway since both men are charismatic and great in the ring ;)
 
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