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I did not watch it but if the match was what you said I agree that style is awful. Wrestling is best when it looks like a fight or a compeditive sport. Too much gymnastics in modern wrestling overall.
 

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What you guys are explaining is called "spot wrestling"

And yes, Cole and Gargano are huge spot monkeys. Nonetheless, Cole has potential to be US title contender and Gargano will probably be regulated to Curt Hawkins level type jobber for the rest of his career on RAW.
 

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I haven't seen this takeover yet but a 50+ minute match??? I'm not watching it now.

They are disappearing up their own wrestling-is-an-artform ass
 

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SGT. AT ARMS
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I love Cole, dude has star written all over him, the only time his matches are like this is when he faces Gargano because Johnny is Mr. Endurance and Mr. Kickouts, if Cole hit 3 Destroyers on Dream it would be over, same goes for everyone else on the NXT roster, its just Johnny that does this.

Someone said it best a few pages back, you know exactly what you're getting in a Gargano Takeover main event, its gonna go 40 minute plus, theres gonna be 30 finisher kickouts and by the end Gargano will do something stupid that causes himself to lose the match. Cole was just sucked into Johnny's vortex of kickouts.

It'll never get any dumber than when Cole hit a Canadian Destroyer on the outside on Gargano and Gargano kicked out, i mean the dude lost to a spike DDT on wood to Ciampa but he can kick out of a fucking flipping piledriver on concrete.... I said it last night in the thread that if Cole hit a Canadian Destroyer off the cage and through 2 tables Gargano would still kickout, i was actually waiting for that to happen.

I'm just looking forward to Johnny on the main roster, say bye bye to that goofy superman booking there, welcome to 205 Live my friend where your days of feeling like the top star and some kind of invincible kickout machine is over.
 

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To say they suck is OTT, but I'm in the same camp as everyone here. This was the worst case of 'Superkick Mania - The SuperKickening' and everything that comes along with it.

It's just one of the worst examples of booking that says the ultimate building of drama lies with kick out after kick out of huge moves. So you know before time that no regular version of a their finisher is ever going to finish the match. Then when you get these insane versions of the canadian destroyer etc then don't even finish anything it just gets ridiculous. The drama is in teasing the big move(s) only for them to be countered until they aren't, then that should be the end.

I preferred the booking of Trish vs Charlotte. Trish had her own awesome version of the figure 8, but it wasn't hers so Charlotte survived. Then when Charlotte had it on, it was clear she was the master of it so Trish had to tap. Simple.
 

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What you guys are explaining is called "spot wrestling"

And yes, Cole and Gargano are huge spot monkeys. Nonetheless, Cole has potential to be US title contender and Gargano will probably be regulated to Curt Hawkins level type jobber for the rest of his career on RAW.
think you have that backwards. Gargano is a solid mid upper guy same as Ricochet.

Cole is like 5'5. Hes lucky to make 205.
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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No there aren't. It's your opinion.
fpalm

Yeah, and guess what? If I'm making an argument using my opinion, then I'm making a case for something.

There is no real way to measure this stuff although I could make a case that them main eventing the last 3 shows for the 2nd biggest wrestling brand in the world says they do not suck.
:curry4

You literally just said I can't make a case for something that's opinionated. And then you immediately contradict your own argument by claiming that you could. So which is it?
 

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fpalm



Yeah, and guess what? If I'm making an argument using my opinion, then I'm making a case for something.







:curry4



You literally just said I can't make a case for something that's opinionated. And then you immediately contradict your own argument by claiming that you could. So which is it?


Exactly. There is no real way for you to prove they suck and there is no real way for me to prove they don't. I like them and can give my reasons why and you don't like them and can give your reasons why. HOWEVER....if there was one way to maaaaybe prove one of these sides, it would be the thing I said. But I'm not convinced of that argument myself.


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THE EXTREME HORSEMEN
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I love Cole, dude has star written all over him, the only time his matches are like this is when he faces Gargano because Johnny is Mr. Endurance and Mr. Kickouts, if Cole hit 3 Destroyers on Dream it would be over, same goes for everyone else on the NXT roster, its just Johnny that does this.

Someone said it best a few pages back, you know exactly what you're getting in a Gargano Takeover main event, its gonna go 40 minute plus, theres gonna be 30 finisher kickouts and by the end Gargano will do something stupid that causes himself to lose the match. Cole was just sucked into Johnny's vortex of kickouts.

It'll never get any dumber than when Cole hit a Canadian Destroyer on the outside on Gargano and Gargano kicked out, i mean the dude lost to a spike DDT on wood to Ciampa but he can kick out of a fucking flipping piledriver on concrete.... I said it last night in the thread that if Cole hit a Canadian Destroyer off the cage and through 2 tables Gargano would still kickout, i was actually waiting for that to happen.

I'm just looking forward to Johnny on the main roster, say bye bye to that goofy superman booking there, welcome to 205 Live my friend where your days of feeling like the top star and some kind of invincible kickout machine is over
.
:banderas

I can't tell you ho giddy I am at the prospect of Grapples being forced to have "normal" matches again instead of the horrible forced epic bullshit he's been doing.

Enjoying losing to ONE Cyclone Crash from Mr Gulak, you fucking asshole.
 

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This is my problem with NXT and NJPW to an extent aswell. The bar is for what is possible in a match is now so high that the matches don't feel important anymore. If the top 2 matches on every card aim to be epic, then eventually none of them will be.

30 mins should be the maximum in my opinion, unless it's a big multi-man match like the Rumble or Survivor Series Tags.
 
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Greek God of Knowledge
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Exactly. There is no real way for you to prove they suck and there is no real way for me to prove they don't. I like them and can give my reasons why and you don't like them and can give your reasons why. HOWEVER....if there was one way to maaaaybe prove one of these sides, it would be the thing I said. But I'm not convinced of that argument myself.


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I don't need to "prove" anything. That's not my objective here. My objective is to make what ever point I am trying to make as clear as possible for the other person to understand.

Whether or not you want to debate the matter is up to you. But resorting to "it's your opinion" when I obviously could give any less of a shit about whether or not it's my opinion tells me two things. You either think I am right, or you aren't capable of mustering up a proper retort because you aren't familiar enough with the topic at hand. No person goes on a website like this, and expects everyone to hold that same philosophy. Forums exist for a reason.
 

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I don't need to "prove" anything. That's not my objective here. My objective is to make what ever point I am trying to make as clear as possible for the other person to understand.

Whether or not you want to debate the matter is up to you. But resorting to "it's your opinion" when I obviously could give any less of a shit about whether or not it's my opinion tells me two things. You either think I am right, or you aren't capable of mustering up a proper retort because you aren't familiar enough with the topic at hand. No person goes on a website like this, and expects everyone to hold that same philosophy. Forums exist for a reason.
This is getting annoying. You’re getting a bit nuts. All I’m going back to is your initial comment that there are very good cases to be made regarding why they are very poor pro wrestlers. And I’m saying that makes it sound like you think you can somehow prove they are poor pro wrestlers. Which is arrogant and foolish at best and idiotic at worst.

I can give a laundry list of why I think they’re great but I don’t expect anyone to change their opinion based on that. In fact I’m sure I have stated what I like about them in other threads the last few years.

This could just be an issue of semantics. I think you understand the whole this is all subjective thing but I just took issue with you saying you can “make a case” for it. When there really is no way to prove either side.
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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This is getting annoying. You’re getting a bit nuts.
...no I'm not.

All I’m going back to is your initial comment that there are very good cases to be made regarding why they are very poor pro wrestlers. And I’m saying that makes it sound like you think you can somehow prove they are poor pro wrestlers. Which is arrogant and foolish at best and idiotic at worst.
How? Because it's my opinion? That's not being arrogant or foolish, and it's not idiotic. It's literally doing the exact same thing everyone else on the forum does with any wrestler that they don't think highly of.

And you're literally doing what you just described as idiotic. You're making a case for your argument. So please, do enlighten me on why you get a pass and others don't?

I can give a laundry list of why I think they’re great but I don’t expect anyone to change their opinion based on that. In fact I’m sure I have stated what I like about them in other threads the last few years.
Please, do name them. Otherwise, don't waste my time with your "they're just opinions" nonsense. Because that tells me that you can't and that you don't know what you're talking about. Don't use cop outs if you want me to believe you know what you're talking about. In this case, it's not about changing someone's opinions. I can already tell that you aren't going to change my opinion because you aren't capable of doing so.

This could just be an issue of semantics. I think you understand the whole this is all subjective thing but I just took issue with you saying you can “make a case” for it. When there really is no way to prove either side.
No, you can absolutely make a case for it. Making a case for something doesn't apply to facts. It absolutely applies to opinions.
 

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All I'm going to say is any of you who think Gargano is going to be a jobber on 205 with how much development HHH has given this guy, you're out of your minds.

He will likely be jobbing to guys like Jinder though...
 

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Man,I love cole and gargano. Always have even during their Indy days. I don't give a fuck about a hating ass bitch from the uk and what they gotta say. I enjoy their shit and I always will. That's just me. Calling people neckbeards but acting like bitches when someone else has a different is just mind blowing. Im not gonna suck you off like everyone else in here does. If you don't like my opinon so be it. Again Idgaf. ADAM COLE BAY BAY!! Fucking whiny ass bitches. Stay the fuck off the net since you're too pussy to handle someone's opinions.
 

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...no I'm not.



How? Because it's my opinion? That's not being arrogant or foolish, and it's not idiotic. It's literally doing the exact same thing everyone else on the forum does with any wrestler that they don't think highly of.

And you're literally doing what you just described as idiotic. You're making a case for your argument. So please, do enlighten me on why you get a pass and others don't?



Please, do name them. Otherwise, don't waste my time with your "they're just opinions" nonsense. Because that tells me that you can't and that you don't know what you're talking about. Don't use cop outs if you want me to believe you know what you're talking about. In this case, it's not about changing someone's opinions. I can already tell that you aren't going to change my opinion because you aren't capable of doing so.



No, you can absolutely make a case for it. Making a case for something doesn't apply to facts. It absolutely applies to opinions.
Look man, this has gone too far and is just getting stupid. You can search thru my posts over the last 3 years and you’ll see my opinions on them two.

And when you say you’re going to make a case for something that means you’re going to try and prove something. If you can’t follow that I don’t know what to say anymore.
 
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