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Do you agree that the return of Punk is complete and utter Flop so far?

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Admittedly Sammy wasn't red hot or anything but he has been consistently over with crowds as a babyface. He has been prominently featured in every match/feud he's been involved with or without Jericho and has been doing pretty good.

I personally would have had him lose the first match and win the rematch but he got a huge pop for that win.
I don't have an issue with either loss outside of shit talk. I just find it weird how losing to a bonafide legend in Cena is treated as a negative. But other losses are A-okay. Like in an actual combat sports imagine that logic. Losing to a champ makes you a scrub, but losing to regional riff raff doesn't lol
 

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I don't have an issue with either loss outside of shit talk. I just find it weird how losing to a bonafide legend in Cena is treated as a negative. But other losses are A-okay. Like in an actual combat sports imagine that logic. Losing to a champ makes you a scrub, but losing to regional riff raff doesn't lol
It's because Cena gained absolutely nothing from these wins. Cena remained Cena. He always overcomes odds.

You build a heel for 2 months then Bam... Cena wins Lol. I mean it got repetitive and boring. And it started to become much more annoying when Cena turned from a guy rising to the top beating established stars, to WWE producing new guys just to feed Cena. It got boring, predictable and repetitive.
 

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It's because Cena gained absolutely nothing from these wins. Cena remained Cena. He always overcomes odds.

You build a heel for 2 months then Bam... Cena wins Lol. I mean it got repetitive and boring. And it started to become much more annoying when Cena turned from a guy rising to the top beating established stars, to WWE producing new guys just to feed Cena. It got boring, predictable and repetitive.
For me I just thought of it as the alternative as well what do you have him put over everybody, then that doesn't exactly help anybody either similar to how beating Jericho and Kane didn't mean much after a while.
 

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For me I just thought of it as the alternative as well what do you have him put over everybody, then that doesn't exactly help anybody either similar to how beating Jericho and Kane didn't mean much after a while.
Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog.

Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena.

It's not the win/loss record, it's fixed, nobody cares. It's the story that matters. If it makes sense for one wrestler to lose to another because it makes the other guy look credible than you have two stars that can go back and forth. Makes for a good story you are trying to tell.

Nobody will take you for an underdog if you win ever ppv match for a decade.

Jericho/Kane losing all the time was just as stupid just at the other end of the spectrum. Balance is key, you build then you make them lose. Then you give them credibility back. That's how every wrestler should be booked. Regardless if they are a top face.

No wonder they didn't make many stars during CenaWinsLol era. They still are relying on AE guys. Because the only 5 other names that made a name for themselves were Punk, Bryan, Batista, Orton and Edge.

And we all know Punk and Bryan popularity forced Vince's hand on their push otherwise they would have been treated the same as Umaga and Barrett and countless others.
 

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Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog.

Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena.

It's not the win/loss record, it's fixed, nobody cares. It's the story that matters. If it makes sense for one wrestler to lose to another because it makes the other guy look credible than you have two stars that can go back and forth. Makes for a good story you are trying to tell.

Nobody will take you for an underdog if you win ever ppv match for a decade.
Yeah but at a point it became pretty much everybody allegedly should've beat Cena. I think like a Barrett should've beat Cena. But a Rusev was fucked regardless because win streak characters are fucked once they lose anyway.
 

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Yeah but at a point it became pretty much everybody allegedly should've beat Cena. I think like a Barrett should've beat Cena. But a Rusev was fucked regardless because win streak characters are fucked once they lose anyway.
I agree. I don't think Rusev should have won either. Wasn't ready for that kind of rub anyways. But then don't have him feud with Cena.

I was mad about Barrett, Wyatt (Cult) and Ryder.
 

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bischoff is a fucking boomer who never really understood the business anyway. he had about as much grasp as vince russo. he needs to keep talking shit to get people tuning into his shit and it's obviously working because i'm making a comment about his comments like a fucking mark.
Never really understood the business but was the first and only man to ever beat Vince McMahon.

he had no idea how to book young talent and create new stars. stunad.










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To not embarrass you I'm not counting the careers he improved either such as Steiner, Hogan, Outsiders etc.
 

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Never really understood the business but was the first and only man to ever beat Vince McMahon.













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To not embarrass you I'm not counting the careers he improved either such as Steiner, Hogan, Outsiders etc.
lol it's really easy to post pictures.

let's start with goldberg. young? no. got over organically but we can give bischoff a win here

ddp was in his 40s lol.

sting was over before bischoff. sting was being pushed as their hogan in the late 80s.

big show- a guy that size would have gotten top billings everywhere and what did bischoff do for him? jobbed him out to hogan and made him look like a doofus every which way. turned him into a smoker and alcoholic lmao.

benoit- ran him out of the company. gave him that world title for a night bc he thought it would make him stay. it didn't. had to come up with some convoluted ass bullshit reason like his foot was under a rope to get the title off him after he signed with kennedy.

improved hall and nash how? financially. they were on daytime tv talkshows before wcw. they became hogan's lackeys until nash got the book and totally screwed up your boy goldberg.

so you didn't really embarrass anyone but yourself, stunad.

jericho, benoit, eddie guerrero, rey mysterio, dean malenko, booker t, public enemy, yuji nagata, chono, muta all say hi.

keep being smug though. it's a good look for you. fucking lol

bischoff understood the business so much that he was gifted the man coming off the hottest work in wrestling history and totally dropped the ball.

cliffs: you're dumb.
 

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lol it's really easy to post pictures.

let's start with goldberg. young? no. got over organically but we can give bischoff a win here

ddp was in his 40s lol.

sting was over before bischoff. sting was being pushed as their hogan in the late 80s.

big show- a guy that size would have gotten top billings everywhere and what did bischoff do for him? jobbed him out to hogan and made him look like a doofus every which way. turned him into a smoker and alcoholic lmao.

benoit- ran him out of the company. gave him that world title for a night bc he thought it would make him stay. it didn't. had to come up with some convoluted ass bullshit reason like his foot was under a rope to get the title off him after he signed with kennedy.

improved hall and nash how? financially. they were on daytime tv talkshows before wcw. they became hogan's lackeys until nash got the book and totally screwed up your boy goldberg.

so you didn't really embarrass anyone but yourself, stunad.

jericho, benoit, eddie guerrero, rey mysterio, dean malenko, booker t, public enemy, yuji nagata, chono, muta all say hi.

keep being smug though. it's a good look for you. fucking lol

bischoff understood the business so much that he was gifted the man coming off the hottest work in wrestling history and totally dropped the ball.

cliffs: you're dumb.
Goldberg was only 31 when he debuted in WCW, is that considered old?

DDP was in his 40's but he was what you call TV young meaning he was new and fresh to TV audiences. Batista was late thirties when he got his big push with WWE but you didn't see anyone calling him an old star, do you?

Sting reached the peak of his fame during Eric Bischoff's run in charge. AEW uses the gimmick to this day despite it being 25 years later, that's how good Eric's use of Sting was.

Giant was booked just as well as he was in WWE tbh.

Benoit wasn't given the belt by Bischoff but Bischoff's booking got him to the point where people would accept that. Dude was a star.

Nash and Hall are most known for the nWo, that was proven when Vince brought back the nWo in 2002 instead of Diesel and Razor. Yes, they were famous before joining WCW but Bischoff took them to the next level as opposed to guys like Tony Khan who have signed big stars and had them decline in fame...

As for your young guys, lets assess those one by one:

Jericho - Has openly admitted he wasn't ready for a main event run in WCW when he was there.

Benoit - Reached the top, became a Horseman, multi time champion etc.

Eddie - Nowhere near ready for a main event run during his time in WCW, he started becoming the huge deal he was near the end of his life around 2003-2004.

Rey - Was nowhere near ready.

Booker T - Actually technically reached the top under the watch of Bischoff and Russo as well, lol.

Public Enemy - Were good simply as a regional act and could never reach the heights of their 2-3 year run with Heyman ever again.

Nagata, Chono and Muta - Commitments were with NJPW and Japanese wrestlers never get over with American audiences. None of these guys had main event potential in WCW especially with the likes of Hogan, Sting, Savage, Hall, Nash, Luger etc running around.

You are right that Eric dropped the ball on Bret but Bret has said himself that he wasn't exactly motivated during his WCW run.
 

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Rock lost all the time man... He still was the top dog.

Austin was much more protected, but even he lost alot more in his career than Cena.
As a top guy no way.

Austins run on top 98-2003 he only lost clean twice, once to HHH at NWO 2001, which btw was treated more as fluke and on his final match to Rock at WM19.

Rock lost but rarely clean. Lesnar and Goldberg were two times but again he was on his way out both times. Vast majority of his other losses were by interference or distraction.

Cena in 2008 on ppv lost clean more times than Rock and Austin (as top guys) combined I suspect. HHH, JBL, Batista and Orton all pinned Cena clean as a whistle.

And btw wrestling 101 is build up monster heel, have them beat everyone then top baby takes them down, then heel leaves territory or drops into midcard if under long contract. This was the way its been for 100 years. It was during Brunos run (Monsoon), Hogan (Bundy, Andre, Studd, Quake), Austin (Kane, Taker).

1/3 of the entire UK population watched top mega babyface Big Daddy beat monster heel Giant Haystacks on ITV in 1980.
 

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Dude, you know when was the last time that a major star returned to wrestling in a semi-frequent basis after being away for 7+ years?

It was Brock Lesnar in April 2012.

He had a rough start booking-wise in the beginning, but he was eventually presented like an unstoppable dominant monster by April 2014 after he ended the Undertaker's Streak.

I guarantee you that if this same thread was made about Lesnar in June 2012 (a couple of months after his return) or even within that same calendar year, the majority of folks on here would be calling his run a major "flop."

However, Lesnar eventually went on to receive what is arguably the strongest push out of anybody on the roster just a couple of years later in 2014 until now. He's only rivaled by the current Universal Champion on that department. I definitely wouldn't call Lesnar's 2nd WWE run to be a "flop" at all.

It's just plain ridiculous to claim that CM Punk's run is already a "flop." The dude has even yet to sniff the world title picture, and he wants to take his time before he's involved in major main-event programs (which I respect completely because Punk does not want to under-deliver in the main-event scene).

You'll have a MUCH better idea of how Punk's run turns out a couple years from now. After all, It took Lesnar a couple of years to erase any doubts of his 2nd run.
Lesnar came in to HUGE fanfare and had huge booking. Yeah, he lost his first match to Cena, but he looked like a beast in the match and it may have very well been asked to lose to prove his commitment to the business as he left because he was disinterested. After that, he tapped Triple H out and won 2 of the 3 in their trilogy. After the HHH loss at WM 29, he didn't get pinned or submitted for 2 and a half years when he passed out in Undertaker's Hell's Gate after a screwy finish.

Punk came back, made (not so) subtle remarks about WWE (which have very little impact on an AEW show because everyone from the top stars to jobbers and journey people take digs at WWE EVERY SHOW), gave out ice cream bars, beat little Darby in Chicago and has wrestled 15 minute matches with low midcarders and jobbers ever since....REAL IMPRESSIVE!
 

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Lesnar came in to HUGE fanfare and had huge booking. Yeah, he lost his first match to Cena, but he looked like a beast in the match and it may have very well been asked to lose to prove his commitment to the business as he left because he was disinterested. After that, he tapped Triple H out and won 2 of the 3 in their trilogy. After the HHH loss at WM 29, he didn't get pinned or submitted for 2 and a half years when he passed out in Undertaker's Hell's Gate after a screwy finish.

Punk came back, made (not so) subtle remarks about WWE (which have very little impact on an AEW show because everyone from the top stars to jobbers and journey people take digs at WWE EVERY SHOW), gave out ice cream bars, beat little Darby in Chicago and has wrestled 15 minute matches with low midcarders and jobbers ever since....REAL IMPRESSIVE!
CM Punk has STILL yet to lose a match so far, and is still one of the most over men on the show (which he'll continue to be even more over once he faces more top talents), so they must be doing something right then :)
 

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CM Punk has STILL yet to lose a match so far, and is still one of the most over men on the show (which he'll continue to be even more over once he faces more top talents), so they must be doing something right then :)
Matches are pre-determined and he is over because of all he did prior to AEW. He has done absolutely nothing of note in AEW except give out ice cream bars and take jabs at WWE.

Ratings have plummeted and since Darby has faced nothing but jobbers. I din't want to hear about him having to work off rust because the guy is blown up every match....even against Bobby Fish who is older than him and is in far better shape. He has to work much harder to get in that "wrestling shape" (which he clearly isn't doing) because he doesn't have a house show loop to work 3-4x a week like if he was in WWE. Merely wrestling a jobber once every other week isn't going to cut it.
 
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