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Would you put up Cena in Mt. Rushmore of WWE/F? With his 16 time title reign, his run as the top baby face for a decade, his make-a-wish, his merch sale etc.., do you see him there?

While on topic, which four guys would be on Mt. Rushmore of WWE/F for you?
 

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Cena's legacy will be falsified by WWe until they no longer hold the pen writing the history books.

Cena's legacy should be the hindering of talent to the extent that not only his but the generation after his suffered.

WWe however will no doubt push him as a top four GOAT when in reality he doesn't fit ANY of the criteria needed to hold such a moniker, aside from kayfabe title wins which has little to nothing to do with one's "GOAT level".

He can't touch any of the Mount Rushmore candidates, and is at the very best in the third tier of top wrestlers.
 

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Each of the 4 presidents on Mt. Rushmore symbolise something specific, they weren’t picked to represent the 4 greatest technical politicians in American history.

Cena would definitely single-handedly best represent an important shift in WWE’s history to a politically correct, corporate, children-friendly family attempt at a product.

Whether that shift is worth celebrating or not is your answer as to whether Cena should be on the wrestling Mt. Rushmore.

I think WWE would choose:

Hogan - represents the first, heroic babyface with global stardom

Austin - representing attitude and victory at a time when WWE’s existence was under threat, leading to them having a monopoly on the industry

Cena - representing a maturation towards a family-friendly, corporate company

The final spot is not clear. You could argue for:

4a. The Undertaker - representing the magic of the gimmick

4b. The Rock - representing a popular wrestling star crossover to become Hollywood’s top celebrity (he doesn’t represent anything else that would get him on)

4c. Vince McMahon - the founding father puppeteer.
 

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Nah, it'll be Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, and The Rock for their drawing power during the three most profitable periods in pro-wrestling (WWWF, Golden Age, and Attitude era respectively.)
 

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Hell no.

Mt. Rushmore of the WWE wrestlers will always be Hogan, Austin, Rock & Andre. No other performer has made the kind of impact and drew the kind of money that these people have domestically or internationally in the history of the wrestling business.

Cena was the first babyface wrestler who was consistently shoved down people's throats by the WWE. He also was/is a pathetic excuse of a wrestler who to this day can't even execute wrestling moves consistently and properly despite being at the top for so long and working with some very talented performers.

I will never deny the fact that he was one of the top merch movers (not at the nWo or Austin levels mind you) but he also was responsible for bringing viewership down once he became that lame a** marine character. His one memorable feud was with the Rock, and that had more to do with The Rock returning to the WWE than whatever it is that Cena was doing.

Both Jericho and Edge testified to the instance where Cena buried the entire Nexus for no damn reason (despite both Jericho and Edge trying to talk some sense into him). Ryback, Alex Riley and Dykstra also talked about Cena burying people.
 

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I would not put him up there with Hogan, Andre, Austin and the Rock.

However, since the turn of the century, he is probably, over a long period of time, the most important wrestler the WWE have had. They will push for him to be on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling greats. I'd say he just falls short.

He needed a top opponent to really shine, I don't think he was capable of carrying a feud.
 

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WWE would probably choose Hogan, Rock, Austin and Cena just to cater to what the fans are more familiar with today.

In all actuality it's more like Andre, Hogan, Rock and Austin.

If their was a 5th, Cena would be it.

John Cena was around at a different time in wrestling than when Andre or Bruno Sammartino was. John Cena represented a wrestling company globally when their was the internet and fans were a lot more critical of wrestlers in-ring performance than they were decades ago. Lets be honest, a lot of us on here probably weren't watching wrestling when Andre and Bruno were in their prime.

Cena will have a great legacy in wrestling. The majority do love him, regardless of what the minority thinks. It's just that their are so many other greats that deserve those 4 spots on Mt. Rushmore too.
 

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Hell no.

Mt. Rushmore of the WWE wrestlers will always be Hogan, Austin, Rock & Andre. No other performer has made the kind of impact and drew the kind of money that these people have domestically or internationally in the history of the wrestling business.

Cena was the first babyface wrestler who was consistently shoved down people's throats by the WWE. He also was/is a pathetic excuse of a wrestler who to this day can't even execute wrestling moves consistently and properly despite being at the top for so long and working with some very talented performers.

I will never deny the fact that he was one of the top merch movers (not at the nWo or Austin levels mind you) but he also was responsible for bringing viewership down once he became that lame a** marine character. His one memorable feud was with the Rock, and that had more to do with The Rock returning to the WWE than whatever it is that Cena was doing.

Both Jericho and Edge testified to the instance where Cena buried the entire Nexus for no damn reason (despite both Jericho and Edge trying to talk some sense into him). Ryback, Alex Riley and Dykstra also talked about Cena burying people.

So lex luger doesnt exist
 

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I am sure if you asked me this a few years ago I would answer yes, he is there as one of the GOATs
even if I don't like him.

But for some reasons the last years of his career have put his legacy down in my eyes, I am not sure
why, maybe because he has been jobbing to everybody and feeling irrelevant.
 

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WWE/F alone

Most important by far is Vince Jr. No Vince, no national and thus international expansion, no mania, no Raw/SD etc. No platform for Hogan, Rock, Cena to become as big as they did in pro wrestling.

Second level down I would go Bruno and Hogan for their overall impact and longevity. Bruno obviously didn't need Vince Jr platform to become star he did.

Next level Rock and Austin. Huge drawing stars at peak but longevity wasn't there and business fell under their watch (not their fault obviously)

Next on his own is Cena. Consistency is key here. Business remained consistently above average during Cenas 10 years run on top.

Next level Andre and HHH.

I have seen people say Andre drew more than Cena. Not for WWE he didn't. Andre worked everywhere not just WWE. Bigger star in Japan than Cena, yes. Bigger star in Mexico than Cena, yes but they aren't WWE. Andre was never expected to carry company either. He had guys like Bruno, Superstar, Backlund and Hogan for that.

HHH gets shit on but he has been vital to WWE last 20+ in terms of being business mover and elevating talent like Orton, Batista, Cena at WM22 and completely reinventing what pro wrestling developmental should be. The PC alone has saved WWE millions this past 3 weeks.

Cena's legacy will be falsified by WWe until they no longer hold the pen writing the history books.
Cena was voted in first time he became eligible for selection by the observer and that's current and former wrestlers, journalists and historians voting. He easily passed voting threshold. Highly unusual a modern day us wrestler gets in first time these days in that.

The idea that WWE alone hold him up as a star is completely wrong

Cena's legacy should be the hindering of talent to the extent that not only his but the generation after his suffered.
What talent did Hogan elevate so that WWE had people to replace him. When Hogan left in 92 they had to fast-track Bret Hart into top spot who btw Hogan refused to do business with.

Hogan killed Savages drawing ability in 89 and undermined Warrior throughout 1990.

Who did Austin put over from 98-2002 so WWE had easy replacement when he walked out. Again they had to fast-track someone, this time rookie Lesnar who clearly wasn't ready to carry anything.

WWe however will no doubt push him as a top four GOAT when in reality he doesn't fit ANY of the criteria needed to hold such a moniker, aside from kayfabe title wins which has little to nothing to do with one's "GOAT level".

He can't touch any of the Mount Rushmore candidates, and is at the very best in the third tier of top wrestlers.
List people ahead of him so, so we can critique it.
 

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WWE/F alone

Most important by far is Vince Jr. No Vince, no national and thus international expansion, no mania, no Raw/SD etc. No platform for Hogan, Rock, Cena to become as big as they did in pro wrestling.

Second level down I would go Bruno and Hogan for their overall impact and longevity. Bruno obviously didn't need Vince Jr platform to become star he did.
Same with Hogan. Hogan was a star before he got to the WWE.

Next level Rock and Austin. Huge drawing stars at peak but longevity wasn't there and business fell under their watch (not their fault obviously)

Next on his own is Cena. Consistency is key here. Business remained consistently above average during Cenas 10 years run on top.
No it did not. They lost viewers compared to the AE days.

Next level Andre and HHH.
The very premise/foundation of the WWE is predicated/based on Hogan slamming Andre at WM3. The fact that you put a worldwide phenomenon and a drawing megastar in the same level with a clown whose only claim to fame is that he married the boss's daughter and attained high titles/positions because of that marriage has robbed you of serious credibility, and I for one used to enjoy reading your posts until this one.

I have seen people say Andre drew more than Cena. Not for WWE he didn't. Andre worked everywhere not just WWE. Bigger star in Japan than Cena, yes. Bigger star in Mexico than Cena, yes but they aren't WWE. Andre was never expected to carry company either. He had guys like Bruno, Superstar, Backlund and Hogan for that.
Without Andre, WM 3 wouldn't have the kind of impact that people still talk about to this day. In terms of sheer impact in the WWF/E, Andre has already beaten Cena.

HHH gets shit on but he has been vital to WWE last 20+ in terms of being business mover and elevating talent like Orton, Batista, Cena at WM22 and completely reinventing what pro wrestling developmental should be. The PC alone has saved WWE millions this past 3 weeks.
Rightfully so. He did not elevate Cena or Orton. In fact with Cena, he made him look like a chump at RTWM and WM 22. He also made Orton look like a joke and stunk up the joint with all of his matches with him. The feud with Batista clicking has more to do with Batista than Triple HGH. We have yet to see proof that PC is profitable, and WWE most likely has lost money on live events in the past 3 weeks, so I don't know where you got this "saved WWE millions" rhetoric from.

Cena was voted in first time he became eligible for selection by the observer and that's current and former wrestlers, journalists and historians voting. He easily passed voting threshold. Highly unusual a modern day us wrestler gets in first time these days in that.

The idea that WWE alone hold him up as a star is completely wrong
Was it before or after he was being shoved down people's throats?

What talent did Hogan elevate so that WWE had people to replace him. When Hogan left in 92 they had to fast-track Bret Hart into top spot who btw Hogan refused to do business with.
Hogan killed Savages drawing ability in 89 and undermined Warrior throughout 1990.
Hogan put over Warrior at WM 6 in a major way. This whole "stealing Warrior's thunder" thing is horse sh*. Proven by multiple people that ending of that match was laid out like that by Patterson and Vince. He made Warrior. He also put over the Yokozuna, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, the Rock, etc. Hogan tends to be full of sh*, but when push came to shove, he did business. Also proven multiple times that the whole Hogan-Hart not putting over thing was a ploy by McMahon. Hogan also put over Goldberg, and Sting in WCW making them bigger stars than before, but I get it if you don't want to count this. How did he kill Savage's drawing ability?

Who did Austin put over from 98-2002 so WWE had easy replacement when he walked out. Again they had to fast-track someone, this time rookie Lesnar who clearly wasn't ready to carry anything.
List people ahead of him so, so we can critique it.
Austin was the top guy in the WWF/E between 1998-2002. It would have been a bigger loss to the WWE had he been jobbing to others. But to answer your question, he made Mankind in that Summerslam by losing to him in that Triple Threat match. Triple HGH had no business winning the title then or ever.
 

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Flair shouldn't be in conversation if this is WWE/F as vast majority of his success came in NWA/WCW

Flair would be ahead of Cena if this was overall wrestling or even just North American wrestling
I thought it was North American wrestling, it'd be hard not to include Rikidozan or Inoki if it was global.
 

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Cena does not belong anywhere near a mountain. His stale, boring character chased millions of fans away and Vince was too stubborn to do anything to change it.
 

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Same with Hogan. Hogan was a star before he got to the WWE.
Hogan was not close to level of star he would become in 1983. Not even same universe

No it did not. They lost viewers compared to the AE days.
Attitude Era was boom period so wouldn't be considered normal.

Viewership if you are counting it which I wouldn't was still well above average from 2005-14. Not attitude era levels obviously but 2009 Raw averaged more live viewers than 1998.

I am talking attendance, merch/toy sales, overall revenue that brings actual money in. If we assume outside AE WWEs average paid attendance since 1990 is 5,000 then Cena kept it above that comfortably.

Attendance was much higher once they pushed Cena compared to 2003-04.

The very premise/foundation of the WWE is predicated/based on Hogan slamming Andre at WM3. The fact that you put a worldwide phenomenon and a drawing megastar in the same level with a clown whose only claim to fame is that he married the boss's daughter and attained high titles/positions because of that marriage has robbed you of serious credibility, and I for one used to enjoy reading your posts until this one.
Wrestlemania 1 is a far far more important show for WWEs national and international expansion. First Wrestlemania blows away 3 in terms of main stream attention garnered.

HHH didn't marry Stephanie until 2003 which by that time he was already established as top guy in company.

Look you can argue with Meltzer, it's his numbers and research I am using re: HHH

Without Andre, WM 3 wouldn't have the kind of impact that people still talk about to this day. In terms of sheer impact in the WWF/E, Andre has already beaten Cena.
Again 3 is vastly over-rated for it's overall impact on the business. It created the blue-print for Wrestlemanias after but there have been bigger and more important shows.

Cena carried WWE on his back for 10 years, some of it through darkest days for company like Benoit suicide/murder. Not sure how one show beats a decade where WWE hit all time revenue and was hugely profitable each year.

Andre played a huge role in pro wrestling but he was not a bigger draw in WWE than Cena which this thread is about WWE only.

Rightfully so. He did not elevate Cena or Orton. In fact with Cena, he made him look like a chump at RTWM and WM 22. He also made Orton look like a joke and stunk up the joint with all of his matches with him. The feud with Batista clicking has more to do with Batista than Triple HGH.
beating HHH at Wrestlemania established Cena as clear number one guy.

Where are Orton and Batista without evolution. Where is Jindrak now?

We have yet to see proof that PC is profitable, and WWE most likely has lost money on live events in the past 3 weeks, so I don't know where you got this "saved WWE millions" rhetoric from.
PC is a training facility so obviously it's not going to make money.

the fact the building exists means WWE could continue taping tv this past 3 weeks. If building didn't exist it would be much harder and likely have to stop taping in worst case scenario. Considering NBC and Fox are paying them about $10 million weekly for Raw/SD and NXT that adds up quickly.


Was it before or after he was being shoved down people's throats?
He is hardly getting voted into a HOF pre 2005 is he. His drawing ability is main reason he is in.


Hogan put over Warrior at WM 6 in a major way. This whole "stealing Warrior's thunder" thing is horse sh*. Proven by multiple people that ending of that match was laid out like that by Patterson and Vince. He made Warrior.
Hogan has a clean 123 when ref is down before end of match. Then instead of allowing warrior his moment after he wins Hogan is there. It's well established Hogan kept telling Vince that Warrior wasn't up to it and undermined his run and as soon as Hogan returned in July 90 all the focus was on him not Warrior. Of course Hogan would mainevent following 2 Wrestlemanias and win title last thing at Wrestlemania 9.

He also put over the Yokozuna, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, the Rock, etc. Hogan tends to be full of sh*, but when push came to shove, he did business.
He lost to Yokozuna with a total BS finish. Yokozuna wasn't the guy Vince and Monsoon wanted to build around it was Bret and Hogan refused to work Bret never mind lose to him.

Brock, Taker, Rock all came when Hogan was nearly 50 years old.

Also proven multiple times that the whole Hogan-Hart not putting over thing was a ploy by McMahon. Hogan also put over Goldberg, and Sting in WCW making them bigger stars than before, but I get it if you don't want to count this. How did he kill Savage's drawing ability?
Goldberg fair enough but even he couldn't deny Goldberg was nuclear hot in July 98 and beating him would have been stupidest thing ever. From everything I have heard Hogan started undermining Goldberg soon after and talking wanting his win back eventually.

Sting was massively hurt by the disaster that was Starrcade 97. Sting takes some of the blame for turning up in bad shape but the bs booking meant he never came close to being as over as he was pre Starrcade again.


Austin was the top guy in the WWF/E between 1998-2002. It would have been a bigger loss to the WWE had he been jobbing to others. But to answer your question, he made Mankind in that Summerslam by losing to him in that Triple Threat match. Triple HGH had no business winning the title then or ever.
Why are people so critical of Cena though? Cena lost to Edge, lost RVD, multiple times to Orton, Punk, Del Rio, Sheamus, Bryan. He lost multiple tag matches to Shield which massively helped their rise.

Previous poster claims Cena hindered talent going forward. I say what's the difference between him and Hogan/Austin in that respect.
 

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There are 2 things that I just want to say in this thread. First of all, I also don't get why people always say that Cena never put anyone over, when in fact he lost far more than other Top guys( and more than Austin, who is treated like a god among the IWC, yet notoriously refused to put other talent over). Second of all @deadcool is such a toxic guy, reading his stuff almost makes him look like a troll. Dude did Triple H personally do something to you? I have never seen someone hating another wrestler so much without valid reasons, and no the Stephanie argument is invaild.
 
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