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Discussion Starter #1
From what AEW said they wanted to make wins and losses matter, therefore score keeping would be an important part of it, but the rankings don't make sense, these are the current rankings.

Men's.
Champion: Jericho 0 - 0 (obviously the champion is first)
1st. Moxley (4 - 0), 2nd: Cody (2 - 0), 3rd: Pac (1 -1), 4th: Omega (0 - 0), 5th: Sabian: (3 - 1)... Ok why isn't Sabian ranking higher than Omega? Or is 1 loss enough to be below someone that hasn't had a singles match for 2020?

Women's
Ok the website isn't up to date here but Nyla is the champion, then you have Statlander at 3rd (0 - 1) over Yuka(1 - 0) and Baker(1 - 2), wouldn't Yuka be ranked higher than Statlander?

Tag-teams:
Dark Order is below the Bucks and Scu despite being 2 - 0, Bucks being 1 -1 and SCU being 2 -1, OK I get if Bucks are number 1 contenders because they won a match to earn it, but why wouldn't they be ranked 1st with Dark Order 2nd above SCU that have a tag-team lose to their name in 2020?

Can someone please explain this, I genuinely want to make sense of this.
 

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This is why ranking systems are a bad idea. Many have been saying it from the start. Jim Cornette covered it quite effectively on his one of his recent podcasts. Wins and losses should be emphasized to highlight the story details you want people to focus on. When you've got a bunch of talent 50/50 going for your top titles and you're constantly reminding fans that people are losers, it looks bad.

This was fundamentally and philosophically a flawed idea from the start, but they had to do it because Tony Khan is a mark for numbers without really understanding how they work (or else he wouldn't be putting them up there).
 

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From what AEW said they wanted to make wins and losses matter, therefore score keeping would be an important part of it, but the rankings don't make sense, these are the current rankings.

Men's.
Champion: Jericho 0 - 0 (obviously the champion is first)
1st. Moxley (4 - 0), 2nd: Cody (2 - 0), 3rd: Pac (1 -1), 4th: Omega (0 - 0), 5th: Sabian: (3 - 1)... Ok why isn't Sabian ranking higher than Omega? Or is 1 loss enough to be below someone that hasn't had a singles match for 2020?

Women's
Ok the website isn't up to date here but Nyla is the champion, then you have Statlander at 3rd (0 - 1) over Yuka(1 - 0) and Baker(1 - 2), wouldn't Yuka be ranked higher than Statlander?

Tag-teams:
Dark Order is below the Bucks and Scu despite being 2 - 0, Bucks being 1 -1 and SCU being 2 -1, OK I get if Bucks are number 1 contenders because they won a match to earn it, but why wouldn't they be ranked 1st with Dark Order 2nd above SCU that have a tag-team lose to their name in 2020?

Can someone please explain this, I genuinely want to make sense of this.
Because AEW factors in quality of wins and status. For example Kip Sabian 3-1 but his wins are vs Janela, QT Marshall and Nakazawa. So W/L matter but so does what AEW determines what quality win is based off status of their wrestlers.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Because AEW factors in quality of wins and status. For example Kip Sabian 3-1 but his wins are vs Janela, QT Marshall and Nakazawa. So W/L matter but so does what AEW determines what quality win is based off status of their wrestlers.
Maybe they should expand their rankings to see the scores of the other members of the roster so we can see people moving up for example.
 

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Maybe they should expand their rankings to see the scores of the other members of the roster so we can see people moving up for example.
Yeah giving wrestlers a tier score based off W/L and status. Would help explain quality of wins better.
 

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They are factoring in strength of win (I have heard no mention of a terrible loss yet), and overall record. As confusing as it is it is not too difficult early on. But come this time next year every fan will have to do a lot of research to try and understand the rankings.
 

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Because AEW factors in quality of wins and status. For example Kip Sabian 3-1 but his wins are vs Janela, QT Marshall and Nakazawa. So W/L matter but so does what AEW determines what quality win is based off status of their wrestlers.
So you can have a 10-0 record and not challenge for the titles because those wins were not over a "quality" opponent?
Who decides who is a quality opponent?
Sorry but that makes the entire W/L record pointless.

AEW should just nixed the idea later in 2019, they are overcomplicating things only to get the same result.

Incidentally they are destroying the little credibility the lowcarder have left, we know they are there to make the other guys looks good but it's a terrible business move to discredit your talent by putting their negative record on screen every week.
 

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So you can have a 10-0 record and not challenge for the titles because those wins were not over a "quality" opponent?
Who decides who is a quality opponent?
Sorry but that makes the entire W/L record pointless.

AEW should just nixed the idea later in 2019, they are overcomplicating things only to get the same result.

Incidentally they are destroying the little credibility the lowcarder have left, we know they are there to make the other guys looks good but it's a terrible business move to discredit your talent by putting their negative record on screen every week.
Cody compared it to College Football rankings. It's all based off what college football views as the top teams from big schools and strength of schedule. In AEW its obvious the top guys are Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, MJF, Pac and Page.


So yes some guy could go 10-0 but if all of those wins are coming off jobbers. Well they aren't gonna rank in the top three. They gotta show they are capable of beating top guys as well as job guys.


The ranking system is just the top five of each division anyways. The whole purpose of it is to give title opportunities more meaning. They don't want guys to go from Mid card acts to get title shots. Like Vince randomly decides to do without any build up. Kinda like we are seeing right now with Ricochet facing Brock. When there's no way he's been built up as a type five guy on Raw.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Cody compared it to College Football rankings. It's all based off what college football views as the top teams from big schools and strength of schedule. In AEW its obvious the top guys are Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, MJF, Pac and Page.
But if Cody can not challenge for the world title again why is he in the rankings for it? They shouldn't have him on the list at all if he's not ranked.
 

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I would like to propose a chip. A tournament for a chip. Whoever wins is the chip holder.

If you beat the chip holder you become the chip holder and have claim that you are better than the previous chip holder (s), and so on. You have a chip on your shoulder, but can never compete for a title while chip holder.


That's it. Book some stuff around it
 

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But if Cody can not challenge for the world title again why is he in the rankings for it? They shouldn't have him on the list at all if he's not ranked.
You can't pretend he's not there. Like in college sports W/L matter and he can still be ranked. He's just not eligible for the title shot. It's also a way to make sure the audience knows Cody a top guy and good as other contenders. So if beating Cody is a win that will put a wrestler in the top five. Well you gotta present him in that top five if he's worth it. Even if it means it's really a top four title picture wise.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You can't pretend he's not there. Like in college sports W/L matter and he can still be ranked. He's just not eligible for the title shot. It's also a way to make sure the audience knows Cody a top guy and good as other contenders. So if beating Cody is a win that will put a wrestler in the top five. Well you gotta present him in that top five if he's worth it. Even if it means it's really a top four title picture wise.
A few years back a football team where disqualified from the ladder as punishment (for drugs if I remember correctly) and as punishment the next year they just sat at the bottom and couldn't earn points or qualify for the final series, I thought it would make sense that way when Cody's ban is lifted they can have a story him working his way up the rankings, not sitting in the top 3 52 weeks in a year taking up a spot.
 

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I agree that this shouldn't exists. The moment they've had #1 contender's match after 6 weeks of Moxley already being the #1 contender non-stop, this became a joke to me.

I understand the sports references. BUT, it just doesn't work with wrestling. You make your #1 contenders out of storyline purposes, which they do anyway, so they have to match the rankings table with their actual plans. So in the end there are just more difficulties coming with it. Make things easier, not harder, for YOURSELVES to book.
 

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The rankings are crappy just as they are in NCAA football. I hate seeing a Division-II team go undefeated and not get any chance to prove themselves capable against other undefeated teams just cause a few people have deemed Alabama more important than some no name school.

That’s what this boils down to. They’re saying records matter when it comes to the championship, but they only matter to 5-6 guys in the company. “So, fuck Kip Sabian, right?”

Get rid of the rankings for this reason.
 

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I think it was a knee jerk idea that just doesn't work in wrestling. They want to try and create a reason to care about every match, which is a GREAT idea, but it's just hard to keep up without burying certain talents.

I'd like them to abandon it or embrace it fully.
 

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I like the rankings, and I can suspend the disbelief about the ‘quality of wins‘ matter

to me, its purely a way to plainly show who is your top guys - and to show who you are suddenly giving a rocket push too - also a shortcut for new fans to see who they should watch out for

the sort of - ‘it’s important you watch this, as we also think its important‘ - mindset

and for that alone, i think its effective.

it is also great discussion feul online - everybody argues about it, so it makes AEW‘s SEO better and their trends better - while turning zero people away. no downside from where i’m sitting

its gonna be a big story as Kenny falls out of the top 5 soon, by not doing any singles matches / or if he loses to Pac
the opposite also, if he beats Pac and rockets up, and becomes number 1 contender - does he go for the title? Does he prioritise the tag titles

it’s good 🤷‍♂️
 

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Because AEW factors in quality of wins and status. For example Kip Sabian 3-1 but his wins are vs Janela, QT Marshall and Nakazawa. So W/L matter but so does what AEW determines what quality win is based off status of their wrestlers.
Except that's not really true either we've seen Darby get a title shot over PAC because he beat Cima, despite PAC having wins over Omega and Page at the time. Nyla Rose shoot up the rankings the week she beat Leva Bates. Even if you consider win quality how is Omega ranked on win quality when he hasn't had a singles match this year.
 

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I like the rankings, and I can suspend the disbelief about the ‘quality of wins‘ matter

to me, its purely a way to plainly show who is your top guys - and to show who you are suddenly giving a rocket push too - also a shortcut for new fans to see who they should watch out for

the sort of - ‘it’s important you watch this, as we also think its important‘ - mindset

and for that alone, i think its effective.

it is also great discussion feul online - everybody argues about it, so it makes AEW‘s SEO better and their trends better - while turning zero people away. no downside from where i’m sitting

its gonna be a big story as Kenny falls out of the top 5 soon, by not doing any singles matches / or if he loses to Pac
the opposite also, if he beats Pac and rockets up, and becomes number 1 contender - does he go for the title? Does he prioritise the tag titles

it’s good
The thing is it really just hurts anybody who doesn't have an overwhelmingly positive record. It's even sillier they reset the records but show the overall. Do you really want to remind folk that Page is 9-8, Darby is 6-7-1, Pac is 6-5-1, Sammy is 6-7. Stuff like that just calls immediate attention to how mediocre they apparently are and not worth attention.
 

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The thing is it really just hurts anybody who doesn't have an overwhelmingly positive record. It's even sillier they reset the records but show the overall. Do you really want to remind folk that Page is 9-8, Darby is 6-7-1, Pac is 6-5-1, Sammy is 6-7. Stuff like that just calls immediate attention to how mediocre they apparently are and not worth attention.
i think any negative of showing the top 5 is outweighed by the positives i pointed out

and they also only show the top 5 / so anybody with a bad record is not buried as a result

we’ll see how it plays out this year, but so far for me ‘positive >> negative’ because of my reasons
 
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