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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
On the March 18, 2002 WWF Raw, a green rookie, Brock Lesnar, debuts with Paul Heyman during a Hardcore title match, and doesn't even go for the Hardcore title, later in the months terrorizes The Hardy Boyz & lita, RVD.

Wins King of The Ring where the stipulation is the winner of KOTR, not only is King of The Ring but faces the WWE Undisputed champion at Summerslam 2002.

Leading into Summerslam, Brock Lesnar beat down Hulk Hogan severely, replusively wiping Hogan's blood on his chest.

At Summerslam, August 2002, green rookie Brock Lesnar beats The Most Popular Superstar in Wrestling, the Face of the WWF/WWE since 1998, The Rock for the WWE Undisputed Championship.

Where The Rock leaves, leaving a diluted product and lower ratings, and Brock Lesnar leaves to Smackdown and makes the WWE Championship exclusive to Smackdown.

Brock Lesnar then in October 2002, severely beats down fan favorite The Undertaker.

1 Month later, Brock Lesnar is turned face, and WWE expects him to be a cheered moral babyface after all the evil he did against Fan Favorites(Rock, Undertaker) without regret...

:ha

he then goes on to win the Royal Rumble in 2003 and main event Wrestlemania 19 with Kurt Angle, beating him for the title, only 1 year on the roster and a low drawing Wrestlemania 19.

Vince Mcmahon only pushed him for his athletic background and look, Brock Lesnar lacked mic skills and was green. they had so many people to choose from to be face of the company, their roster was stacked from the WCW acquisition.

I don't understand what Paul Heyman was thinking booking the show like this, that era is extremely overrated. WWE was in rough times from 2002-2012.
 

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vince mcmahon created a superstar, almost a legend with brock lesnar. lesnar is a household name around the world when it comes to fighting. if he didnt get his early push he wouldnt have been as valuable for the ufc to get the fights he got so he wouldnt be the legend he is today. everything worked out good for brock lesnar and vince mcmahon
 

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Not exactly.

I think he was the wrong one to make the #1 good guy of the company, as he seemed more suited to be the #1 monster heel tearing through everybody. Him as a face was so weird in late 02-mid 03 even watching as a child.

I know alot people LOVED RVD at this time, but I'd take Kurt Angle over him as the #1 face of the company as he was more well-rounded and more familiar with the audience.

Always thought the WM 19 main event should've been Lesnar walking in as the young heel champion (kinda like prime Mike Tyson) since Summerslam and Angle would be the wounded veteran trying to prove he is not obsolete despite facing a more "advanced" version of himself (think Arnold in Terminator II). Watching heel Angle beat up the larger face Brock was weird too, by the way.

Angle gets one over on the young buck and wins the title, then vacates almost immediately once his neck surgey is announced. Brock wins a tournament (beats Benoit or maybe Rock in the finals at Backlash 03 as he "turns a new leaf") to get the title back and goes on a short face run until Angle comes back, then Brock turns back into a heel at Summerslam 2003 to finally beat Angle.
 

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Brock definitely was positioned poorly around this time. I thought they did everything up to SummerSlam 2002 perfectly, but then they did that thing with the title split and Brock "running to SmackDown to avoid HHH" which hurt him a bit.

Then, more importantly, they turned him face for no real reason at Survivor Series by having Heyman move on to Big Show. I know there was an injury, but Brock could have beaten Big Show for reign #2 at the Royal Rumble 2003.

Brock/Angle was fundamentally flawed in that Angle should have been the conquering babyface, challenging the unbeatable heel Brock. Angle, with his wrestling skill that was on par with Brock's, taking down the big man and being the only one to stop him.

Always thought the WM 19 main event should've been Lesnar walking in as the young heel champion (kinda like prime Mike Tyson) since Summerslam and Angle would be the wounded veteran trying to prove he is not obsolete despite facing a more "advanced" version of himself (think Arnold in Terminator II). Watching heel Angle beat up the larger face Brock was weird too, by the way.

Angle gets one over on the young buck and wins the title, then vacates almost immediately once his neck surgey is announced. Brock wins a tournament (beats Benoit or maybe Rock in the finals at Backlash 03 as he "turns a new leaf") to get the title back and goes on a short face run until Angle comes back, then Brock turns back into a heel at Summerslam 2003 to finally beat Angle.
Definitely this without a doubt is how I'd like to have seen it.

Anyway, they at least did this match right at SummerSlam 2003 where Angle beat Brock with both of them in the correct roles. I liked that match better anyway. And even their iron man match was very good.

But yeah, the booking of the two title matches at WrestleMania 19 is why I think that PPV is overrated.
 

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They should have strapped the rocket onto Edge in 2002-2003 and not Cena, Lesnar, or anyone else. That's what they really fucked up on. Edge could have and should have been Face of the Company. Cena should have been the top heel. However they also should have given Edge a better finisher than the Spear, since he didn't do it well at all.

Edge was too entertaining and he did too good of a job to really hate after the Matt Hardy saga blew over. Cena on the other hand? Would have made a perfect smug entitled heel that isn't as good as he thinks he is, especially since he basically plays one right now anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Brock definitely was positioned poorly around this time. I thought they did everything up to SummerSlam 2002 perfectly, but then they did that thing with the title split and Brock "running to SmackDown to avoid HHH" which hurt him a bit.

Then, more importantly, they turned him face for no real reason at Survivor Series by having Heyman move on to Big Show. I know there was an injury, but Brock could have beaten Big Show for reign #2 at the Royal Rumble 2003.

Brock/Angle was fundamentally flawed in that Angle should have been the conquering babyface, challenging the unbeatable heel Brock. Angle, with his wrestling skill that was on par with Brock's, taking down the big man and being the only one to stop him.



Definitely this without a doubt is how I'd like to have seen it.

Anyway, they at least did this match right at SummerSlam 2003 where Angle beat Brock with both of them in the correct roles. I liked that match better anyway. And even their iron man match was very good.

But yeah, the booking of the two title matches at WrestleMania 19 is why I think that PPV is overrated.
I would have let Angle's hair grow back and booked him how he was booked during his babyface run in 2001.

Remember when he took of his neckbrace proclaiming that he'll become the World Wrestling Federation champion again in 2001?

That's how he'd be booked, same characters, have big segments like the Milk Truck, no boring stuff.

Meaning they would have to turn Angle babyface in July of 2002, right after vengeance.

Having Stephanie Mcmahon be a heel Authority Figure who uses Brock Lesnar as her weapon, bring up the past Relationship between Stephanie and Angle from 2000 and etc.

Have Angle win the Rumble and beat Lesnar for the Undisputed Championship(No Brand Split), red, white and blue confetti.

One thing I didn't like was Wrestlemania 19 being in a baseball field.

They should have strapped the rocket onto Edge in 2002-2003 and not Cena, Lesnar, or anyone else.
Edge sucked on the mic from 2001-2003 after they split him from Christian, not until 2004-2005 when Edge turned heel that his character felt authentic.
 

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Edge sucked on the mic from 2001-2003 after they split him from Christian, not until 2004-2005 when Edge turned heel that his character felt authentic.
He had some decent comedy moments with Angle during that time, but generally I agree, he jumped up a level on the mic in 2005.

He was a superior all-around talent to Cena by then and should have got the rocket push IMO. Cena was light years behind Edge in the ring at basically every stage of his career and worse on the mic too IMO.

Back in late 2001 though I think they should have tried to make Angle or Jericho the face of the company, but the WWE ruined both of them during the InVasion with repeated face/heel turns, and then just exacerbated the situation afterward with weak (Jericho) and inconsistent (Angle) booking.
 

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- If hadn't been for that neck injury, I truly believe Edge would've been crowned as THE GUY in 2004, probably at WM 20

- Totally agree that WWE should've tried to get behind Angle as at least the placeholder for top guy in 2002-2004; Brock's the top monster heel and Angle's the versatile top face who will turn heel once a new top face (Edge, Cena, Batista, Orton) steps up; With that being said, damn did WWE take Angle for granted during his last 3-4 years in WWE
 

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Lesnar was money. I don't think they were wrong at all to push him to the moon. I agree that the babyface turn was poor though. That guy had some serious credibility as a legitimate monster heel and should have stayed as such.
 

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I wonder where Lesnar's career would be if he stayed with WWE for the last 10 years.

I think if Brock stayed with WWE he would become extremly stale and maybe even demoted to the midcard since in his first three years he allready destroyed all the Icons, (Hogan, Rock and Undertaker) and won all the major titles (Royal Rumble, WWE Title and KOTR) I think Lesnar would of been moved to Raw as a babyface and feud with Evolution beating Triple H for the WHC if he's promo didn't improve he would been demoted to the midcard after losing the WHC.
 

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On the March 18, 2002 WWF Raw, a green rookie, Brock Lesnar, debuts with Paul Heyman during a Hardcore title match, and doesn't even go for the Hardcore title, later in the months terrorizes The Hardy Boyz & lita, RVD.

Wins King of The Ring where the stipulation is the winner of KOTR, not only is King of The Ring but faces the WWE Undisputed champion at Summerslam 2002.

Leading into Summerslam, Brock Lesnar beat down Hulk Hogan severely, replusively wiping Hogan's blood on his chest.

At Summerslam, August 2002, green rookie Brock Lesnar beats The Most Popular Superstar in Wrestling, the Face of the WWF/WWE since 1998, The Rock for the WWE Undisputed Championship.

Where The Rock leaves, leaving a diluted product and lower ratings, and Brock Lesnar leaves to Smackdown and makes the WWE Championship exclusive to Smackdown.

Brock Lesnar then in October 2002, severely beats down fan favorite The Undertaker.

1 Month later, Brock Lesnar is turned face, and WWE expects him to be a cheered moral babyface after all the evil he did against Fan Favorites(Rock, Undertaker) without regret...

:ha

he then goes on to win the Royal Rumble in 2003 and main event Wrestlemania 19 with Kurt Angle, beating him for the title, only 1 year on the roster and a low drawing Wrestlemania 19.

Vince Mcmahon only pushed him for his athletic background and look, Brock Lesnar lacked mic skills and was green. they had so many people to choose from to be face of the company, their roster was stacked from the WCW acquisition.

I don't understand what Paul Heyman was thinking booking the show like this, that era is extremely overrated. WWE was in rough times from 2002-2012.
oh boy I never want to argue with a fellow Bryan mark but I'm going to have to. first and foremost brock wasn't green he was incredible the moment he showed up he had/has incredible freakish strength that put him him over you find me some one who can belly 2 belly mark henry like it's nothing

note the pop brock gets everyone loved him straight away

the dude is also incredible on the mat

also you talk about the feud with Kurt as if brock had no right to be in the ring with him. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE MATCHES?



the fact is you are pissed off that Bryan brock isn't going to happen so you are trying to discredit brock. and we all know the truth if Bryan had won the rumble then this thread wouldn't be here
 

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I personally hated Lesnar's initial super push and it led to me watching a lot more ROH/TNA/Indies at the time. Brock literally had a (kayfabe) hall of fame career in his first year. It was too much. Then he up and quit, rendering pointless the past two years where WWE bent over backwards in feeding everybody to UnstoppaBrock.

I suppose WWE eventually got something out of this investment but that wouldn't materialize for another eight years.
 

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Then he up and quit, rendering pointless the past two years
I disagree. He entertained. He did his job way better than the vast majority of his co-workers and it was a pleasure watching him. The fact he didn't "rub" somebody doesn't bother me at all.
 

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The rock deefeated Lesnar in a PPV in 2002, a triple threat with HHH and Lesnar.

But, i watched last Royal Rumble and the triple threat with Rollins and Cena. Lesnar is the most powerful WWE champion for a looooooooooooooooong time.
 

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I wish that Brock had stayed until Wrestlemania 21. It would've been cool if he'd beat Goldberg at Wrestlemania 20, then jumped to Raw for the dream matches we all wanted at the time: Brock/Orton, Brock/Triple H, Brock/Batista, Brock/Jericho, Brock/HBK, Brock/Kane and Brock/Maven. He'd outgrown Smackdown by the time he left, to the point where he was facing dudes like Hardcore Holly (who, no offense, definitely didn't deserve a title match) on PPV.
 

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The face run wasn't bad at first, he was still being booked as a loose cannon for a while as a face. It was the comedy stuff later on that was odd. It was similar to Austin's heel run in 2001 where at first he was booked as a ruthless heel and later on became more of a comedy/coward heel.
 

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I wonder where Lesnar's career would be if he stayed with WWE for the last 10 years.

I think if Brock stayed with WWE he would become extremly stale and maybe even demoted to the midcard since in his first three years he allready destroyed all the Icons, (Hogan, Rock and Undertaker) and won all the major titles (Royal Rumble, WWE Title and KOTR) I think Lesnar would of been moved to Raw as a babyface and feud with Evolution beating Triple H for the WHC if he's promo didn't improve he would been demoted to the midcard after losing the WHC.
While I know there's no comparison between Brock and Big Show on a talent/starpower level, I think he could have received treatment similar to that after sticking around for a while. Then, he would have eventually quit.

A big part of why his character works now is that he has all of that UFC credibility that helps us buy into him as a wrecking machine.
 

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I didn't like his initial push. In fact I hated it and him. But compared to what would come a couple years later in John gayboy ****** Cena. It makes me like Brock more in hindsight. Also Brock these last few years has made me a fan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
oh boy I never want to argue with a fellow Bryan mark but I'm going to have to. first and foremost brock wasn't green he was incredible the moment he showed up he had/has incredible freakish strength that put him him over you find me some one who can belly 2 belly mark henry like it's nothing
Strength doesn't stop someone from being green, he lacked mic skill.

note the pop brock gets everyone loved him straight away
No they didn't, that's a Smackdown taping, and at Summerslam they booed Rock because they knew he was leaving.

the dude is also incredible on the mat

also you talk about the feud with Kurt as if brock had no right to be in the ring with him. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE MATCHES?


Matches with Angle and Benoit, mat technicians.

the fact is you are pissed off that Bryan brock isn't going to happen so you are trying to discredit brock. and we all know the truth if Bryan had won the rumble then this thread wouldn't be here
Nice try, I'm actually a Brock Lesnar fan, I'm not discrediting Brock, I'm discrediting his run from 2002-2004, now Brock's established, back then he was generic, he was a vanilla giant back then.

This thread would exist whether Daniel Bryan faces Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania or not, Brock Lesnar was a green vanilla giant in 2002-2004, I didn't become a fan of Brock Lesnar until he returned in 2012, before that I booed him for being boring.

He had some decent comedy moments with Angle during that time, but generally I agree, he jumped up a level on the mic in 2005.

He was a superior all-around talent to Cena by then and should have got the rocket push IMO. Cena was light years behind Edge in the ring at basically every stage of his career and worse on the mic too IMO.

Back in late 2001 though I think they should have tried to make Angle or Jericho the face of the company, but the WWE ruined both of them during the InVasion with repeated face/heel turns, and then just exacerbated the situation afterward with weak (Jericho) and inconsistent (Angle) booking.
I agree, Kurt Angle was the top babyface when Rock was gone, outpopping everyone, he wins the title for the USA after 9/11, then they turn him heel.

Then they got people crazy for Rock/Jericho, only to turn Jericho heel.
 
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