Wrestling Forum banner

161 - 180 of 690 Posts

·
E:16
Joined
·
6,195 Posts
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/34ojsSm.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
Under the transition arrangement the UK follows every single EU law without being a member and without having any say on those laws until the end of 2020. That transition period can be extended until 31 December 20XX. The EU have spoken about December 31 2022 for that date, i.e. after the next UK election, so it may well be that a pro-European party gets elected and opts to apply to rejoin or extend the transition indefinitely.

Under the backstop some of those rules will apply until the EU says otherwise. Some of those laws may even apply to one part of the UK permanently.
It's temporary, and we'll be able to curtail any new laws our ends. The deal is shit, but that's what you get when you have nothing to offer the other negotiater.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ninja Hedgehog

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
It's temporary, and we'll be able to curtail any new laws our ends. The deal is shit, but that's what you get when you have nothing to offer the other negotiater.
"Temporary" until the EU agrees to let the UK leave.

So the UK has to come up with something that from the EU's perspective is equally as good as, if not better than, an arrangement where the UK follows all the rules on goods but has no say in making them, is part of the EU's customs union without having a veto. The UK doesn't even get services - a major part of its industry - included under the backstop.

There is no conceivable trade deal that the EU would ever agree to when the alternative is the backstop. The only way the UK will ever leave the backstop is by losing Northern Ireland or rejoining the EU, the latter of which is the only remotely sensible relationship for the UK to have with Europe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,145 Posts
Outside of the UK leaving the EU I really know nothing about Brexit and its impact. I've heard so much about it but never cared to dig even a little on it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,251 Posts
You can choose not to follow EU laws by not trading with them directly. :shrug

Kick NI out of the UK and half the issues are addressed. :troll
@Utero :HA.

In all seriousness, if I was a remainer which I am not, my best hope would be that the May deal fails and we get a 2nd referendum where the options are May's deal vs Remain, because I guarantee in that scenario Remain would win:

* Remain voters will be energized knowing that May's deal is shit and is widely not supported by either side.

* Leave voters will not be, knowing that May's deal effectively keeps us in the EU whilst having no say in it whatsoever. We become a vassal state under May's deal.


A no deal Brexit vs Remain vote would actually have a closer result in my opinion because there are hardliners who want to leave regardless. I personally think no deal is better in the long run than May's horrible Brexit deal as well. I'd be more inclined to vote no deal than May's deal at this point in time because I don't see the EU renegotiating, this is the best deal for them honestly in the circumstances because May rolled over at nearly every turn.

If you also believe May is trying to circumvent the process and keep us in the EU through the back door which is also a very real possibility considering she's a remainer and how she's handled it, this is the best play for her too should her deal fail. Offer the 2nd referendum with those options. Either she gets her deal through which cements a legacy for her or remain in the EU which was what she always wanted anyway. Either way, she wins.

That's if she survives up to that point :lol.
 

·
No Mercy
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
I'll just put out my point on the whole thing by bluntly stating that May's deal is absolute shite. I just don't see many benefits to it at all. Although I think with the last UK election it showcased that people didn't want a 'hard Brexit', this deal is way too soft. As @DOPA said, I'd prefer no deal at this point than that. I'm just disappointed because the politicians involved have all messed it up (the fear of that back in 2016 is partially why I voted Remain at the time). At the same time, I don't know about a second referendum - I don't think the public really should've been given the option to decide on a huge issue like this in the first place. Over here in Northern Ireland, there's real big uncertainty at the moment with Ireland and whether the country's long term future is within the United Kingdom, and the DUP clearly aren't happy with the deal (for once, I'm on their side).

On May herself, it just showcases as Labour pointed out that whilst she is the 'leader' of the Tories, she's not in control. I don't see her lasting long. I stopped supporting Jeremy Corbyn a long time ago (especially after realising how much more trouble the entire UK could be in, and the whole anti-semitism argument, as well as those questionable IRA links), but you have to ask whether he could've brought out a better deal than the one May has produced, and whether he'd be a better leader overall at the moment as there's no one else.
 

·
You need to be yourself, you can't be no-one else.
Joined
·
7,174 Posts
Removing everything to actually do with the situation of the current brexit plan, the constant reporting of what might and might not happen and the lingering shit of scare mongering about the whole thing has got incredibly fucking boring.

just shut up, get on with it and deal with stuff when it happens. I don't need some twat in suit on breakfast TV spouting his theoretical nonsense, just piss off with your shit and do something useful for once.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,251 Posts
The bad news for 2nd referendum remainers is that the Labour leadership have rejected the idea of another referendum. Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott have come out against the idea to my knowledge. There are also reports that McDonnell was furious at the fact Labour took the remain position during the 2016 referendum. Unfortunately the source I've seen it from is the Express which isn't the most reliable of papers....but there is no reason for me to believe that this isn't McDonnell's true feelings. After all, whilst a part of the EU, he can't take the UK as far left as he would like should Corbyn become PM.

There are of course rebels from both the Tories and Labour but there isn't really the votes for a 2nd referendum to be called through parliament, they would have to hope that May herself would call a 2nd referendum in the event of her deal being rejected.....which is possible but she would fracture her own party by doing so, realistically it would be a bad move for her so I doubt she does it.

So Remainers who want to overturn the Brexit vote would have to hope that a general election is called....which won't happen because of the Conservative majority along with the unionists. There wouldn't be a desire for another general election unless May goes....and the Tory rebellion against May looks like it has fizzled out for now.

Honestly, whilst my initial reaction was of concern that a 2nd referendum would happen, a no deal scenario looks more likely. The vote is touch and go for May, it's not impossible that her deal gets through but it's going to be tight. In the event of a rejection, the ball would be in her court and I think this is where we'll see where her loyalties truly lie. If she calls a 2nd referendum then, we'll know she was looking to overturn the process all along. If she flips the table and says fuck it, we're leaving without a deal then at least we'll know she's serious about Brexit even though she's handled it horribly. The most likely outcome would be she goes back to Brussels and tries to renegotiate a bare bones agreement on the basics of the UK leaving.

At this point with the very few options left available to us, I believe no deal is the best option. It's not ideal and there's a chance we take an economic hit in the short term but the EU have made it clear and I do believe them when they say they want to avoid a no deal because at the end of the day, they want us as close to the EU and it's institutions as possible. More importantly for them, they'll lose our contributions to the European Project which are the 2nd highest out of all the EU nations. That won't be an easy budgetary hole to fill and to work out just who pays what to cover the costs. It'll be a headache for them to sort out, which is one of the reasons why they honestly don't want us to leave.

Because of that, we'd actually be in a prime position to negotiate in the future terms that both sides can agree to and benefit from. I wish May's government were competent enough so we wouldn't be in this position but the one thing everyone can agree to is that they have not been. Hence this is where we are at.


Meanwhile in the EU:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/21/eu-opens-disciplinary-procedures-against-italy.html?fbclid=IwAR0rBD8nzFz5Ff-vyfcY5SMyRu4S_41XT3YTLs1ql-UM8pEEAdxhUrJcMqM

The European Union announced it will look to sanction Italy with a fine after the country refused to submit a budget proposal that squares with its rules.

Italy's populist and partly right-wing coalition wants to increase the country's deficit to 2.4 percent of annual economic output in 2019, as it looks to make good on pre-election spending pledges. A previous Italian government had submitted a 2019 budget which would have recorded a deficit of just 0.8 percent.

In a statement, the European Commission — the EU's executive arm — said: "With regret, that today we confirm our assessment that Italy's draft budget plan is in particularly serious non-compliance with the Council recommendation of 13 July."

The Commission said that as Italy's spending for 2019 didn't comply, commissioners would now open a "debt-based Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP)." The European Union member states now have two weeks to decide if they agree that an EDP against Italy is warranted. If so, the Commission will prepare a document that asks Italy how it will remedy its budget plan to abide with the EU rules. Should Rome ignore that, then officials in Brussels could sanction Italy with fines.

Speaking to CNBC's Silvia Amaro on Wednesday, Vice President of the European Commission, Valdis Dombrovskis, said it was the EU's position that Italy's budget plan would risk more austerity for Italians in the future.

"Instead of that fiscal stimulus that the government is hoping for, (we expect) there is a further slowdown of the economy," he said, before adding he was open to more discussions with Rome but the Italian government now needed to take action.

"You cannot cure high levels of debt with more debt, it is a vulnerability that needs to be addressed," he said.

What's an 'Excessive Deficit Procedure'?
Although it has the power to sanction governments whose budgets don't comply with the EU's fiscal rules, the European Commission has stopped short of issuing fines to other member states before. The rules states that deficits should not exceed 3 percent of a country's gross domestic product (GDP) and public debt must not exceed 60 percent of GDP — a far cry for many European countries.

Although Italy's draft budget envisages a deficit within the 3 percent limit, increasing the deficit from a previously lower target has angered the Commission because European member states are meant to work toward adhering to the rules, not deviating from them.

Now, the European Commission will recommend to EU finance ministers that an "Excessive Deficit Procedure" (EDP) is launched against Italy. Basically, "the EDP requires the country in question to provide a plan of the corrective action and policies it will follow, as well as deadlines for their achievement," the European Commission states, adding: "Euro area countries that do not follow up on the recommendations may be fined."

Italy's Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini said earlier Wednesday that the 2.4 percent deficit target was not negotiable, but other aspects of the proposal could be discussed.

Italy's public debt pile is 131 percent of its GDP, and at 2.3 trillion euros ($2.6 trillion) is the second largest in the euro zone.

Following the announcement in Brussels, stocks listed on Italian markets held onto their morning gains while yields on 10-year Italian debt dipped to near session lows. Yield on bonds move inversely to prices.
More Turmoil with Italy, this time over their budgetary proceedings.
 

·
Fighting the feeling...
Joined
·
2,462 Posts
Just fuck Northern Ireland off. Problems solved. Half of them don't give a rat's arse about the United Kingdom anyways.
 

·
E:16
Joined
·
6,195 Posts
I'm still in awe that pig fucker Cameron and his cronies set this in motion and fucked off when he lost.

Just fuck Northern Ireland off. Problems solved. Half of them don't give a rat's arse about the United Kingdom anyways.
Scotland will be next out the door.
 

·
No Mercy
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
Just fuck Northern Ireland off. Problems solved. Half of them don't give a rat's arse about the United Kingdom anyways.
Not true at all, especially in areas like mine. Once again, just ignorance shown by English towards NI, but that's pretty common. It was hilarious when folk were finding out about NI and the DUP after the last election lol. But onto the point...

If Northern Ireland left the United Kingdom, I'd seriously worry. The return of 'The Troubles' would surely occur. Especially in rundown UDA-ran shiteholes like here, were problems with Catholics are sadly daily. Without a government here too (it's a joke) at the moment due to the DUP fuck ups and them/Sinn Fein refusing to make a deal with the other, we need the United Kingdom.

I very much doubt Ireland could afford six more counties at the moment too. I'm not against the idea of a united Ireland (I don't believe it'll happen in my lifetime though), but there's more cons than pros right now. For folk stating for Northern Ireland to 'fuck off' just shows how little folk still know about here, especially towards the northern part of the country. If you came here, you'd be in for a shock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
Not true at all, especially in areas like mine. Once again, just ignorance shown by English towards NI, but that's pretty common. It was hilarious when folk were finding out about NI and the DUP after the last election lol. But onto the point...

If Northern Ireland left the United Kingdom, I'd seriously worry. The return of 'The Troubles' would surely occur. Especially in rundown UDA-ran shiteholes like here, were problems with Catholics are sadly daily. Without a government here too (it's a joke) at the moment due to the DUP fuck ups and them/Sinn Fein refusing to make a deal with the other, we need the United Kingdom.

I very much doubt Ireland could afford six more counties at the moment too. I'm not against the idea of a united Ireland (I don't believe it'll happen in my lifetime though), but there's more cons than pros right now. For folk stating for Northern Ireland to 'fuck off' just shows how little folk still know about here, especially towards the northern part of the country. If you came here, you'd be in for a shock.
Why does Northern Ireland want to be in the UK if the rest of the UK doesn't want it?
 

·
No Mercy
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
Why does Northern Ireland want to be in the UK if the rest of the UK doesn't want it?
It doesn't matter if they don't want Northern Ireland to suit their own agenda. Northern Ireland NEEDS the United Kingdom right now. Irish nationalists (even Catholics - before anyone calls me a Protestant twat or whatever, I'm agnostic - religion has pretty much destroyed Northern Ireland and continues to control it) will obviously disagree with that, but it's just how it is. I doubt Ireland could afford us, as I've said, but the results would be disastrous. Troubles returning, more terrorism, more uncertainty, etc. I dread to think what'd occur - especially in shitehole areas like where I live.

Northern Ireland doesn't have a government right now, which all began with that botched heating scandal by the DUP. The dinosaurs which run this country, my word. NI needs the United Kingdom. Unionism still pretty much is over the majority of NI. As stated before, religion/backwards mentality completely runs here (as you might know, says a lot that gay marriage is still banned, and bible bashing is the norm), especially paramilitaries too. Speaking of the paras, the police can't do anything about them. Outlawed in the areas - and some folk actually prefer paramilitary justice. Stacey Dooley done a good documentary on Northern Ireland there, I'd recommend checking it out.

Most people here would refer to themselves as 'British' (personally, I'd say I'm Northern Irish - though I've applied for my Irish passport recently, so I'll be holding both - random fact out there haha). Just because it doesn't fit with the English's agenda, doesn't mean the country should be tossed aside or folk who don't know what they're talking about demanding a united Ireland without actually knowing anything about Northern Ireland. (hell, call yourself 'Irish' here or wave an Ireland flag, and you'd most likely be burned out of your house. No exaggeration).

Someone I know (who lives in London, England) from an Oasis fan forum travelled over here to stay at mine for a few nights. It actually educated him a lot about NI/areas like here, and he was very shocked to say the least. Perhaps some folk here need to do the same. This is why I was glad news sites and such were covering NI, and opening some eyes.

EDIT: Nothing personal by the way, and don't mean it to sound that way. It's just how things are, sadly. Besides, it's a guarantee that the Good Friday Agreement will be stuck to, and NI aren't leaving the United Kingdom anytime soon. The risks wouldn't be worth it - the UK government know that too. It'd just be another colossal fuck-up.
 
161 - 180 of 690 Posts
Top