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E:16
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Honestly, and this will please you and @RavishingRickRules but I could see Brexit being overturned at this rate. More MP's are becoming bolder in coming out for a 2nd referendum which was probably their true feeling all along and I could see either May being the weak leader that she is and truly a Remainer at heart too offering a 2nd referendum or calling a general election if the deal doesn't go through (which it won't) and Corbyn offering a 2nd referendum in the event that he wins because he is power hungry at his core.
I find the notion that the media is pro remain confusing, it was the S*n, Mail, Express etc with a circulation of 3.5 million+ that pushed Brexit, whereas the Mirror and the Guardian have about 1 million between them.

So, I fundamentally disagree with that idea that the media is largely more biased and so do yougov polls.



You could argue that BBCs viewership eclipses all of the papers, but the figures are only in the region of 3-5 million so its not excessive.

I am fundamentally torn on a second referendum because its going to cause massive division and leave voters KNOW they'll lose this time which is why they're so desperate to prevent it, but I also think applying the brakes before potentially going over a cliff is a good idea.

It seems weird that its less democratic to have a second vote now that we know all of the details about what Brexit means, than to just go on ahead with what is clearly not an acceptable Brexit for the people who wanted Brexit.

I won't celebrate either way because the UK loses which ever now.
 

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You need to be yourself, you can't be no-one else.
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well I had to see alastair campbell on the TV this morning, that is no way to start the day.

hes basically walking vomit in a suit.
 

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well I had to see alastair campbell on the TV this morning, that is no way to start the day.

hes basically walking vomit in a suit.
He should only ever be on TV after 9pm. There might be children watching before then.

There should have at least been a parental guidance warning before he came on
 

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You're Pretty Good
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What a fucking day. The whole thing would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic.

Easiest deal in history they said. Hang the traitors. Throw Arlene in the sea.
 

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If Brexit doesn't happen properly I think there'll be a new centre right party formed which will campaign with the promise of a future Brexit.
One way or another, Britain will be free from the Shackles of the European Union eventually.
 

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E:16
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Two resignations already, Brexit secretary now gone. These fucking Brexiteers keep disappearing.

Easiest deal in history one said.
 

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E:16
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And another cabinet member gone.

Teresa is hanging on by a thread.
 

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Roy "Gambit" Mustang
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If Brexit doesn't happen properly I think there'll be a new centre right party formed which will campaign with the promise of a future Brexit.
One way or another, Britain will be free from the Shackles of the European Union eventually.
What "shackles" exactly??

I voted remain but the EU are a bunch of cunts and have plenty of problems. Saying that this brexit deal is a fucking mess as I knew it would be
 

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I voted remain but the EU are a bunch of cunts and have plenty of problems. Saying that this brexit deal is a fucking mess as I knew it would be
This may be true but it's not like our politicians/government are any better. I'm just baffled by peoples thinking that they won't get screwed over once we are "free" (obviously don't mean you specifically)
 

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E:16
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They always whinge about unelected bureaucrats too then ignore the house of lords.

I'm no fan of unelected officials but let's not pretend like the UK has to bow to the whims of the EU, we always had sovereignty.

Now that we'll be out we're going to be politicallyinsignificant to Europe and the rest of the world.

Corbyn is being a useless little prick just sitting on the outside pointing at May, he's a Brexiteer at heart and you can see by how inept he's been on the issue.
 
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You're Pretty Good
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They always whinge about unelected bureaucrats too then ignore the house of lords.

I'm no fan of unelected officials but let's not pretend like the UK has to bow to the whims of the EU, we always had sovereignty.

Now that we'll be out we're going to be politicallyinsignificant to Europe and the rest of the world.

Corbyn is being a useless little prick just sitting on the outside pointing at May, he's a Brexiteer at heart and you can see by how inept he's been on the issue.
Corbyn is playing it well, from an electoral point of view.

Supporting a second referendum would alienate half the electorate, a lot of them in Labour constituencies. Pointless too as he can’t actually call for one so it would be a futile gesture. Supporting this deal would piss off everyone and he’s better off shooting down anything the Tories offer.

When the general election comes after the disastrous Brexit, deal or no, Labour can attack the Tories on all fronts without ever being called on it as they didn’t commit to anything.It’s actually not too different from the what the Brexiters are doing too - Although they can’t escape the wrath of remainers. Corbyn can claim he was a remainer who respected the referendum result, who supported a good (impossible) deal. That’s why he will be PM.
 

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So the Brexit secretary Dominic Raab and a few other ministers have resigned. I would have thought at the very least that the cabinet would be united behind May's deal but it turns out to not be the case.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/the-news-explained/draft-withdrawal-agreement-explained/

Cabinet Ministers have backed a 585-page draft withdrawal agreement between the UK and EU after a five-hour meeting with Theresa May, but what does the agreement actually say?

The 585-page document was published late Wednesday night, after a five-hour-long Cabinet meeting at Downing Street.

The draft Brexit agreement covers 'divorce issues', setting out arrangements for citizens' rights, the transitional period, matters of the ECJ, and matters of the Irish border. It also establishes a new joint committee between the UK and EU which will oversee the implementation and interpretation of Brexit and the withdrawal agreement.

Transition Period

The transitional (or implementation) period will end on the 31st December 2020, however this can be extended if decided by the joint committee before the 1st July 2020.

If the transition period is extended, for whatever reason, the UK will still contribute financially to the EU budget for as long as required.

The Northern Ireland Border

The draft agreement says that if there is no trade agreement between the UK and the EU, there are two options - an increase transition period or the use of the "backstop" to ensure there is no hard border in Ireland.

The backstop is the agreement both sides struck in December 2017 to guarantee to avoid a hard border under all circumstances.

If the backstop is needed, it will involve a temporary customs union encompassing not just Northern Ireland but the whole of the UK, in order to respect the constitutional and economic integrity of the UK.

However, Northern Ireland will be in a deeper customs relationship with the EU than Great Britain, including being more closely tied to the rules of the EU single market.

Joint Committee

Matters of the withdrawal agreement will be handled by a new joint committee with representatives from both the United Kingdom and European Union.

It will be held responsible for the implementation of the withdrawal agreement, and to resolve any issue with its interpretation.

A number of committees will also be established for matters of citizens' rights, finance, the Irish border, Gibraltar, Cyprus, and other withdrawal issues.

The Rights Of UK And EU Citizens

For UK/EU nationals seeking a new residence status, their new host country must ensure a "smooth, transparent and simple" administrative procedure, and application forms must be "short, simple and user friendly".

Applications made as a family at the same time will also be considered together.

In order for these applications to be processed, the UK will continue to take part in European Union IT systems that share social security information, and will continue to pay "related costs".

Immigration

The agreement will mean an end of freedom of movement of people.

The government will then introduce their own new skills-based immigration system, likely to be similar to the Australian points-style immigration model.

The UK and the EU has agreed that citizens will not need visas to travel between countries for tourism and temporary business activity.

Policing And Judicial Cooperation

There is an expectation of cooperation for any requests made between the UK and EU member states during the transition period.

This includes the European arrest warrant, European Investigation Orders, freezing and confiscation orders, new criminal proceedings, requests for information for ongoing proceedings, and the participation in certain joint investigation teams.

The ECJ will continue to have jurisdiction over the UK in any proceedings brought by or against the United Kingdom before the end of the transition period. For cases that have been filed but won't make it to court before this time, they will be "considered as having been made".

On matters of surveillance, a "mutual assistance and cooperation" is also expected throughout the transition period for requests for: information, surveillance, cross-border surveillance, and the authorisation of covert investigations.

Customs Arrangements

Unlike in other parts of the European Union where access to services will terminate at the end of the transition period, the UK will benefit from access to Customs related services up until other set dates.
The one good news for Brexiteers is that free movement of people will end so the deal is not a total failure....good grief :lol. Looks like we're going to be staying part of the customs union through the transition period at least which isn't shocking. Single Market will apply until a trade deal is sorted out to avoid the Northern Irish hard border. Apparently we'll be able to negotiate new trade deals outside the EU during the transition period though they won't apply until after they are up....I don't see how under a May government we would even have time to do this. Plus I'm kind of confused how we would be able to do this when the Chequers deal clearly stated we are going to remain part of the single market i.e a soft Brexit. Maybe that's been scrapped?

Not surprisingly, the Northern Irish Border and the Fisheries have and will be hardest thing to sort out and negotiated, it's not surprising with how ill prepared May has been that we have no clear answers beyond the temporary arrangement.

The only thing that gives me breathing room is that seems to be a temporary transitional arrangement. I'm not happy with the delay in getting an actual exit from the EU rather than being stuck to the union's institutions but this deal which has been set up thus far does not seem to be the final one, which is why on the one hand many Brexiteers like myself aren't happy yet at the same time it does give us a path to move forward in a more positive direction.

So I'm torn, I don't like how the deal is set up currently yet if it gets voted down by parliament which is very much likely, then we move a step forward to either no deal or having a 2nd referendum. Neither situation I want.

I don't believe May is the right person to lead these negotiations after March 2019.


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Speaking of the EU: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/emmanuel-macron-eu-army-european-france-angela-merkel-germany-trump-a8631806.html?fbclid=IwAR04oY2FRVz3o9ENPZ8CYV7dxA_UIv7oYC0KLY4FRBihNttQwBJ4maKlsbQ

Angela Merkel has called for the creation of a “real, true” European army, echoing a similar call by her French counterpart.

The German chancellor’s backing for the force comes amid a spat with US president Donald Trump, who took offence to a suggestion by Emmanuel Macron that such an army could ensure Europe’s security in the shadow of the United States.

Ms Merkel endorsed the creation of the army while addressing MEPs at the European parliament in Strasbourg.

Watch more

Emmanuel Macron calls for creation of a ‘true European army’
“We should work on a vision of one day establishing a real, true European army,” Ms Merkel said.

The French president made his call during a radio interview last week: “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America.

“We will not protect the Europeans unless we decide to have a true European army.”

He added: “When I see President Trump announcing that he’s quitting a major disarmament treaty which was formed after the 1980s Euro-missile crisis that hit Europe, who is the main victim? Europe and its security.”

The suggestion angered Mr Trump, who sent a series of hostile tweets about the comments.

On Tuesday the US president tweeted: “Emmanuel Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia. But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two – How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!”

The election of Mr Trump to the White House appears to have given more urgency to the cause of boosting the EU’s defence capabilities, with leaders warning they cannot simply rely on the United States.

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said last year that “deference to Nato can no longer be used as a convenient alibi to argue against greater European efforts”.

Ms Merkel’s intervention is significant because France has historically been the strongest and most vocal proponent of an EU army, with its neighbour tentatively endorsing proposals for a joint command structure for military interventions.

Eurosceptics reacted angrily to the speech. Conservative MEP David Campbell Bannerman said: “This is one of the scariest speeches I have heard as an MEP in my nine years. Merkel is an out-and-out European federalist and we should not be pandering to her as if she is on our side. She is on the side of the superstate.”

In 2016 then defence secretary Sir Michael Fallon said the UK would use its veto to stop the creation of any EU army. However, the UK is leaving the EU, and will therefore no longer have any say in its governance.

A number of proposals have been put on the table for how EU nations could cooperate more closely on defence. The European Commission says closer defence cooperation “is not about creating an EU army”.

A dangerous fantasy they said.
 

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E:16
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Is there a particular reason why a European army is dangerous? Never cared for any army but why this specifically?

I almost feel bad for May, but then she picked up a clearly poisoned chalice.
 

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Is there a particular reason why a European army is dangerous? Never cared for any army but why this specifically?

I almost feel bad for May, but then she picked up a clearly poisoned chalice.
Nick Clegg and other Eurocrats said it was a dangerous fantasy to suggest that the EU was pushing towards having a common European army under the EU's discretion even though the EU's biggest supporters have been calling for it for years. Now it seems like it's getting pushed closer to reality. Eurosceptics are being proved right in their claims.

That's what I was referring to.
 

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Corbyn just playing both sides while the Tories eat themselves alive and the country with it, pissing off literally everyone. Labour gonna get all the outrage votes.

Best brush up your Marx comrades. Gonna paint the country red. Preferably with Tory blood.
It is funny how all of those Tory supporting morons joined up to the Labour Party back when they had that leadership contest and were gloating all over the place how they got Corbyn in and he was going to keep Labour out of power forever....

Then May turned up and suddenly all those dipsticks will now be regretting that (or more likely denying they ever did it) because we are going to get at least 5 years of his ruinous polices

But at this point the Tory Party needs to die off so let it all burn and hope something actually conservative (small c) rises in its place

although with this Brexit screw up the UK Parliament will effectively become like a local town hall anyway so elections will be pretty pointless
 
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