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E:16
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Fighting the feeling...
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What about Pro-Remain London? London independence anyone?
Let them have independence. They can keep their sky high knife crime rates, overpriced living accommodation and general arseholeness in their own little bubble away from everyone else.
 

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E:16
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Let them have independence. They can keep their sky high knife crime rates, overpriced living accommodation and general arseholeness in their own little bubble away from everyone else.
Lol, good luck losing 25% of our GDP.
 

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From parts unknown
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Lol, good luck losing 25% of our GDP.
I wouldn't call it your GDP. I would call it stolen wealth from India.

It's amusing listening to Brits talk about their welfare programs and economy when it would not currently exist as a power without the approximate 10 trillion they made off of India during the occupation.
 

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One major mistake in logic that "Leavers" make every day, in every discussion I've seen or been part of, is that "Britain stood on it's own two feet for many years before the EU, so we can do so again!"

The first half of the statement is true, of course. But people always tack on the second half, almost as a conclusion to the first, and that's just completely inaccurate.

Once the UK entered into the EU, the UK's political and financial climate changed, forever.

We can't go back to this magical, fantasy version of Britain, where everything was amazing and controlled perfectly by our own people. First, because that never existed. But second, because the UK's position in the EU over the years has changed the UK. We are no longer the great exporter of dozens of British products. Furthermore, the industries that produced those products are either a shadow of what they once were, or they are dismantled completely.

It's all very well to say "so we build those industries back up" - but this is a plan put forward by people that have absolutely no idea about economics OR politics. It's not a case of simply "opening a bunch of factories making this/that".

It is a DECADES LONG process to build industry. Not only that, once the UK has pissed off over half of the world by pulling out of the EU, no matter how much we produce, we will struggle to SELL it to anyone.

"Trump will have our back", people say.

No. He won't. He literally said just a few days ago that under the current BREXIT agreement, the UK would lose trading privileges with the US.

So, what's left?

I know that being part of the EU is expensive and annoying. I don't see the EU as a great organization that makes everything peachy. But it is BY FAR the better option to be a part of it than to leave it.

If you really think that BREXIT can be anything but terrible for the country, why don't you look at the politicians that backed it leading up to the referendum. That is, if you can find any that haven't quit in disgrace and embarrassment.

If you still need persuasion, look at Nigel Farage. Farage, the UKIP mouthpiece. The centre of the argument for being BRITAIN. Standing on our own and being PROUD and BRITISH.

He just got his family members German passports. Why? Because being British post BREXIT is going to be absolutely shit.
 

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Roy "Gambit" Mustang
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Lol, good luck losing 25% of our GDP.
I wouldn't call it your GDP. I would call it stolen wealth from India.

It's amusing listening to Brits talk about their welfare programs and economy when it would not currently exist as a power without the approximate 10 trillion they made off of India during the occupation.
Every country has a fucked up past. Please don't act like American is clean and never did anything fucked up. Also London is still 25% of our GDP so yeah getting rid of London would be goddman stupid
 

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E:16
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Lol, good luck losing 25% of our GDP.
I wouldn't call it your GDP. I would call it stolen wealth from India.

It's amusing listening to Brits talk about their welfare programs and economy when it would not currently exist as a power without the approximate 10 trillion they made off of India during the occupation.
You're preaching to the converted. A meme is doing the rounds that says something like 'the EU owes us trillions from winning World war 2 and saving them from Nazis'

My reply is always, that's fine but can we send the trillions to India, Africa etc that we raped for centuries.
 
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From parts unknown
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Every country has a fucked up past. Please don't act like American is clean and never did anything fucked up. Also London is still 25% of our GDP so yeah getting rid of London would be goddman stupid
Of course Americans are sitting on stolen wealth as well (their entire economy today is shaped by centuries of slavery), but America's history of colonization and occupation can't hold a candle to the Brits' looting of India. Not even close. The British Raj was no better than legalized piracy and the British Royals murderous, looting scumbags.

BTW. I don't hold anything against modern Brits. I really like you lot. The problem I have is that after centuries of looting we have a generation (some of whom were alive during the occupation and looting of India) demanding isolation as though that is the answer to England's financial problems. I don't think it is. I think it's a false belief that England can be self sufficient and the relationship to colonization is that the British monarchy created a false impression of self sufficient England while hiding the fact that British wealth was stolen and not earned.


You're preaching to the converted. A meme is doing the rounds that says something like 'the EU owes us trillions from winning World war 2 and saving them from Nazis'

My reply is always, that's fine but can we send the trillions to India, Africa etc that we raped for centuries.
I wonder if unbiased war analysts would attribute the victory of WWII to the brits tbh. Wasn't it mostly the Americans and the Soviet Union?
 

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E:16
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I wonder if unbiased war analysts would attribute the victory of WWII to the brits tbh. Wasn't it mostly the Americans and the Soviet Union?
I don't see why any unbiased war analysts would attribute victory to any one side which is why I despise the whole 'America saved us from speaking German' bullshit you get from over there. Brits don't tend to make a claim that they won the war for XYZ unless you're talking about the French/German, and its normally only banter then instead of a genuine belief that Britian won the war.

Most British people know full well without the Russians we'd have struggled to get a statelmate and without the Americans we probably would have been eventually crushed. But the same logic doesn't seem to apply to Americans who seem to delight in informing everyone they saved the day.

FWIW I firmly believe without Britain, America would have been fighting a stalemate, we held the platforms for attack, without our island and territory at the time America wouldn't have got close to Europe.
 
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From parts unknown
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FWIW I firmly without Britain America would have been fighting a stalemate, we held the platforms for attack, without our island and territory at the time America wouldn't have got close to Europe.
One thing I've learned is that while education of the masses includes teaching people what propaganda is, it seems like society by and large is ill-equipped to recognize it when it's their own governments creating and pushing the propaganda. Almost all countries seem to have their own narratives of what happened and in some extreme cases people's entire identities and realities are shaped by their localized myths.

For example, in America it is widely believed that Americans have been fighting wars in the name of good and saving people in much the same vein as they did during WWII and that they actively "won" those wars as well. (That's the mass belief that I've observed from talking to people here in the south and reading the general vibe around wars), but few people tend to accept that America has been on the wrong side of most of their wars and also created far more misery back home as a result. The misery of the veterans while spoken of is easily brushed aside while the misery in the countries that America creates war in don't even get spoken about. Most people don't even know how many wars America is currently embroiled in. It's gotten that bad over the last 16 years.
 

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Roy "Gambit" Mustang
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We may be OK on our own under a competent government but yeah not feeling positive since we are run by a bunch of morons. Kind of prefer no deal to the deal we got as it seems like all the bad parts of the EU without any benefits
 

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We may be OK on our own under a competent government but yeah not feeling positive since we are run by a bunch of morons. Kind of prefer no deal to the deal we got as it seems like all the bad parts of the EU without any benefits
Yeah.

No Deal - or "Hard BREXIT" is the best BREXIT option. While I didn't vote to leave, and would never do so, IF leaving is the only option, I'd much prefer no deal.

What we are getting now, under this "deal" is a UK that is still completely controlled by EU law, but no longer has any MEP's in the EU, or any say in how the EU is run.

We are saving NO money by being out of the EU. In fact, we will end up paying just as much, if not more, in import/export taxes, as well as for the goods that we buy from EU members, which will now be at a much higher price, because we aren't part of the EU ourselves.

It is abundantly clear that May does not WANT the UK to leave the EU. She is pandering to the people that voted "leave", but in name only. The UK will "officially" no longer be a member of the EU, but nothing that EU law controls will change.

BREXIT was never anything to do with how the NHS was run, or border control, or immigration. These were all things that were thrown up as a smokescreen by people like Farage and Johnson. The shocking thing to me was that people fell for it.

The reports that we had, the day after the result, of people literally going to their foreign neighbours and telling them to pack their bags because BREXIT means they're leaving the country ...

Way too many people voted without know what they were voting for. That is what makes the whole thing a farce. It was made clear from the start that this referendum was supposed to be a way to "gauge the mood" of the public. An "advisory vote" at best.

David Cameron should have had the balls the day after the vote to simply say "We hear you. You have a lack of confidence in our role in the EU. We will work on this."

It's simply unfeasible to pull out of the EU without causing massive financial and political upheaval within our own country. I keep hearing "leavers" saying "Yes, it'll be tough for a while, but the eventual outcome will be positive". That's bullshit. The fallout from BREXIT will last for decades and the country will recover because it HAS TO recover. But we will still end up in a worse position than we ever were when in the EU.

One last thing to consider ... While in the EU, UK's MEPs voted in favour of more than 98% of all bills put forward. The UK's MEPs were all there, involved in the discussions and voting FOR everything that the EU put in place.

HOW is removing us from the EU going to change anything, when the EU is only doing things that the UK's representatives agree with!?

Ugh. Enough ranting about this. Just makes me so very tired!
 

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The deal on offer from Europe may be the worst deal signed by any country in history in time of peace, but it's still much better than no deal. That's why the EU have offered it and why the UK government have accepted it, with even some of the real hardcore accepting it. The UK is incredibly exposed by no deal, it would be a catastrophe, most people have no idea how bad it would be. No country has ever done anything like this and with good reason. This great phrase "Project Fear" gives people a reason to dismiss everything and sail on in blissful ignorance.

The deal is a humiliation for the UK, it will be a drag on it for the foreseeable future, but it won't be so bad day to day. No deal will hit the UK like a fucking train. By the end of April the UK will be on its knees begging the EU to give it something like the withdrawal agreement and will accept any conditions attached to it. The eventual agreement in a no deal scenario will be much worse for the UK than the deal currently offered because of how desperate the UK is and how few options it will have.
 

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E:16
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The deal on offer from Europe may be the worst deal signed by any country in history in time of peace, but it's still much better than no deal.
:banderas

Great post overall, couldn't agree more. A no deal scenario is the worst possible outcome.

Yeah.

No Deal - or "Hard BREXIT" is the best BREXIT option.
A really good post except for this bit!

I'd rather leave on good terms than piss off our biggest partners and ruin our economy even more than needed.

Both are utterly ridiculous though.
 

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:banderas

Great post overall, couldn't agree more. A no deal scenario is the worst possible outcome.



A really good post except for this bit!

I'd rather leave on good terms than piss off our biggest partners and ruin our economy even more than needed.

Both are utterly ridiculous though.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Hard Brexit is a horrible option as well.

The deal on offer from Europe may be the worst deal signed by any country in history in time of peace, but it's still much better than no deal. That's why the EU have offered it and why the UK government have accepted it, with even some of the real hardcore accepting it. The UK is incredibly exposed by no deal, it would be a catastrophe, most people have no idea how bad it would be. No country has ever done anything like this and with good reason. This great phrase "Project Fear" gives people a reason to dismiss everything and sail on in blissful ignorance.

The deal is a humiliation for the UK, it will be a drag on it for the foreseeable future, but it won't be so bad day to day. No deal will hit the UK like a fucking train. By the end of April the UK will be on its knees begging the EU to give it something like the withdrawal agreement and will accept any conditions attached to it. The eventual agreement in a no deal scenario will be much worse for the UK than the deal currently offered because of how desperate the UK is and how few options it will have.
At this point, I'd rather the Prime Minister addressed the people of the UK and just explained that this deal is the best option, and it still fucking sucks. She should remind everyone that the public vote was not binding, and state that the experts in the matter have decided that BREXIT is not workable in any way.

I can't imagine any outcome of that, that would be as bad as taking this deal!
 
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