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Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-idUSKCN1AW2A1?il=0

Venezuela's Socialist-run 'truth commission' to investigate opposition

CARACAS (Reuters) - Opposition candidates running in Venezuela's October gubernatorial elections will be investigated to make sure none were involved in violent political protests this year, the head of a new pro-government truth commission said on Wednesday.

The panel was set up earlier in the day by the constituent assembly elected last month at the behest of socialist President Nicolas Maduro. Government critics say the commission is designed to sideline the opposition and bolster the ruling party's flagging support ahead of the October vote.

Also before the assembly is a bill that would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up 25 years in jail. The opposition fears such a law would be used to silence criticism of a government that, according to local rights group Penal Forum is, is already holding 676 political prisoners.

"Whoever goes into the streets to express intolerance and hatred, will be captured and will be tried and punished with sentences of 15, 20, 25 years of jail," Maduro said last week.

Over 120 people have died in four months of protests against the president's handling of an economy beset by triple-digit inflation and acute food shortages.

Maduro loyalist Delcy Rodriguez was named as head of the truth commission, on top of being president of the assembly. She said she would ask the country's CNE elections authority for information about candidates running in October.

"We have decided to ask the CNE to send a complete list of gubernatorial candidates to the truth commission in order to determine if any of the them were involved in incidents of violence," Rodriguez told the assembly, stressing this would have a "cleansing effect" on Venezuela.

"We have seen tweets, messages on social networks and photographs of opposition leaders responsible for convening and organizing violent events in Venezuela," Rodriguez told the commission on Wednesday.

"JAIL ANYONE, FOR ALMOST ANYTHING"

Maduro defends the all-powerful assembly as the country's only hope for peace and prosperity.

"The question is whether this is the peace he's looking for: creating a law that gives him and his obedient supreme court judiciary powers to lock up dissidents for 25 years," Tamara Taraciuk, head Venezuela researcher for Human Rights Watch, said in a Wednesday telephone interview.

"The proposal includes incredibly vague language that would allow them to jail anyone for almost anything," she added.

The opposition, which won control of congress in 2015 but has seen its decisions nullified by Maduro's loyalist Supreme Court, boycotted the late July election of the assembly.

'ENTRENCHED IMPUNITY'

In its first session after being elected on July 30, the assembly fired Venezuela's top prosecutor Luisa Ortega and appointed a Maduro loyalist to replace her.

The Geneva-based International Commission of Jurists said in a report on Wednesday that Ortega's dismissal "removes one of the last remaining institutional checks on executive authority."

The country's new chief prosecutor, Maduro's ex-human rights ombudsman Tarek Saab, on Wednesday outlined corruption accusations against Ortega and her husband German Ferrer.

They, and members of Ortega's former staff of prosecutors, are accused of running an "extortion gang" and funneling profits to an account in the Bahamas, the new chief prosecutor said.

"The Sebin (intelligence service) is raiding my house right now as part of the government's revenge for our fight against totalitarianism in Venezuela," Ortega said on Twitter late Wednesday afternoon.

It was not immediately possible to reach Ferrer. In the past, his wife Ortega has said accusations against them are politically motivated.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Authoritarianism needs to be stopped wherever it takes place. The country's in a disastrous state and it's sad to see.

Whether it's fascism or communism, government down the barrel of a gun is something we need to remove from this world. That's what supra-governmental authorities like the UN are meant to be for, but sadly fail too often.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Why hasn't someone shot him already. I just find it funny how several public figures of peace and tolerance have someone that wants to kill them but no one seems to able to kill guys like Hitler, Kim, this guy, etc. All you need is one guy from his bodyguard ls to sacrifice themselves and boom, he's dead. And if he is still having public assemblies or something, anyone can theoretically do it.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Absolutely horrific news there @DesolationRow. Unfortunately, this is what happens when a socialist country inevitably collapses and the ruling power wants to hold on to their ideological framework. Knowing that the vast majority of the country is rebelling due to there being a shortage of food, clean water, utilities etc. the ruling power has shown the true authoritarian nature of Socialism in practice. A reminder of what the main opposition leader in the UK said about Venezuela only a few years ago @InUtero:


Of course Corbyn condemns the violence on "both sides", because he cannot admit to himself and the public what is truly going on: That his socialist dream utopian country has well and truly economically collapsed and that the Maduro regime has gone full totalitarian against their own people.

Yes, there is another way Corbyn. It's called socialism and it's evil and it doesn't work.
 

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Magic, sparkles and Strap-ons!
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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Love it!

We need something like that in the US, have to stop people from saying terrible things.

In no way would this be abused.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Yes, there is another way Corbyn. It's called socialism and it's evil and it doesn't work.
Meh, the term socialism is incredibly wide-ranging and not very useful. New Zealand, Canada, Holland and most of Scandinavia are all socialist under plenty of definitions, doing just fine and are among the best countries to start an enterprise in the world.

Corbyn looks like a plum with that statement, certainly. He has an authoritarian tendency that is my main problem with him. But since both the current UK "Conservative" Party (who aren't conservative. Or indeed liberal. Or anything other than sort-of right-leaning traditionalist reactionary incompetents) and the New Labour model that he's replacing, not to mention the populist UKIP option or the Lib Dems, have if anything even more authoritarian streaks than he does then I struggle to see it as a difference maker.

As a British voter wanting to vote for a legit anti-authoritatarian party right now you pretty much have to either trust that the Greens wouldn't go mad, or vote for an incredibly fringe libertarian option. It's a sad state of affairs.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Meh, the term socialism is incredibly wide-ranging and not very useful. New Zealand, Canada, Holland and most of Scandinavia are all socialist under plenty of definitions, doing just fine and are among the best countries to start an enterprise in the world.
None of the countries you have just mentioned are in any way socialist. All of these countries have a market economy, with the vast majority of their economies in the private sector. The Scandinavian countries have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and are very business orientated, Holland and New Zealand have even less of their economy in the public sector than the UK. Whilst having universal healthcare, Holland has all of it's healthcare system in private hands whilst NZ in the last twenty years have moved to a mixed system. Compare that to the UK which still has a single payer system with the vast majority of healthcare coming from one source/insurance, that being the state.

That is a far cry from what socialism actually is: which is the public ownership of the means of production whether that be in theory (collectives such as worker co-operatives) or practice (the state). Having universal healthcare and education does not at all make one socialist. You are confusing socialism with social democracy, which is a mixed economy. Even Denmark's own prime minister had to come out and correct Bernie Sanders when he said that Denmark is a socialist country. None of the Scandinavian countries or the other ones mentioned are socialist. They are a far cry from Venezuela, Cuba, USSR, Maoist China, North Korea etc.

The widening of the definition of Socialism is the far left's way of trying to make the idea of Socialism more acceptable as an opposing idea of "neo-liberalism". But again, changing and broadening of those definitions do not make it true. Marx would have HATED the Scandinavian countries not only because they are still largely capitalist but the fact he hated incremental changes and interventionism.

I can't disagree with you on the rest, but I've seen this argument about certain countries being socialist when nothing can be further from the truth. I don't know what has led to these sorts of arguments, maybe Bernie Sanders is to blame :lol.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Champagne Socialists and Socialist "Bros" don't even know much about Socialism, don't feel bad L-DOPA!
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

None of the countries you have just mentioned are in any way socialist. All of these countries have a market economy, with the vast majority of their economies in the private sector. The Scandinavian countries have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and are very business orientated, Holland and New Zealand have even less of their economy in the public sector than the UK. Whilst having universal healthcare, Holland has all of it's healthcare system in private hands whilst NZ in the last twenty years have moved to a mixed system. Compare that to the UK which still has a single payer system with the vast majority of healthcare coming from one source/insurance, that being the state.

That is a far cry from what socialism actually is: which is the public ownership of the means of production whether that be in theory (collectives such as worker co-operatives) or practice (the state). Having universal healthcare and education does not at all make one socialist. You are confusing socialism with social democracy, which is a mixed economy. Even Denmark's own prime minister had to come out and correct Bernie Sanders when he said that Denmark is a socialist country. None of the Scandinavian countries or the other ones mentioned are socialist. They are a far cry from Venezuela, Cuba, USSR, Maoist China, North Korea etc.

The widening of the definition of Socialism is the far left's way of trying to make the idea of Socialism more acceptable as an opposing idea of "neo-liberalism". But again, changing and broadening of those definitions do not make it true. Marx would have HATED the Scandinavian countries not only because they are still largely capitalist but the fact he hated incremental changes and interventionism.

I can't disagree with you on the rest, but I've seen this argument about certain countries being socialist when nothing can be further from the truth. I don't know what has led to these sorts of arguments, maybe Bernie Sanders is to blame :lol.
Ha.

This shows how mad the debate has gone and how difficult it is to have sensible discourse these days.

You are of course completely right. None of those countries are socialist. They have just been dragged into that definition by a ridiculous lexicon who can't see an economy that's mixed without calling it Socialism.

I would argue that has happened from the right more than the left in order to tar all arguments related to the use of public money as being a moral or economic equivalence to communism or socialism. Certainly people not knowing what socialism actually is has harmed those of us who advocate that public spending and relatively higher taxes CAN be a good thing as long as it is justifiable, applies to areas that benefit the populace and most of all - and this is clearly where authoritarian governments fall to pieces, right or left - accountable.

I'm sorry for making assumptions about how you were employing your vocabulary. I am too used to holding discourse with people who don't understand the terminology they are using.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Champagne Socialists and Socialist "Bros" don't even know much about Socialism, don't feel bad L-DOPA!
More like Starbucks Socialists
 
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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Champagne Socialists and Socialist "Bros" don't even know much about Socialism, don't feel bad L-DOPA!
Mate if you want to go round making straw men, find a field.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

I invite those that live in the USA and support Socialism to tell me again that the system can work.

Now is the perfect time to tell me about the benefits of socialism.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

^ The problem is not really Socialism, the problem is corruption.

It looks more and more like there's gonna be some kind of intervention by a certain foreign power, whether an open one like in Iraq or a secret one like in Ukraine. Also, it more and more looks like I'm gonna be completely fine with that.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

More like Starbucks Socialists
Well I was thinking about the rich people like Celebs who love Socialism but don't want to pay taxes but by gawd they want to help people! (Just don't think they should be the ones to do it.)
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Here's a novel idea: let Venezuela deal with Venezuelan problems.

I don't give a fuck what's going on in their country and neither would the US government if they weren't sitting on the world's largest oil reserves. They ain't a threat to our national security and never will be. Someone give me a call when Venezuela decides to invade Louisiana but until then, let's mind our own fucking business.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

The problem, of course, is that people have widely different interpretations and levels of sensitivity as to what constitutes "hate" and "intolerance." So you're looking at a country where most of the population could be reasonably jailed over some bullshit depending on how the leader views things.
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Well that's feminists in that country fucked. Oh wait a second, silly me ...
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

Absolutely horrific news there @DesolationRow. Unfortunately, this is what happens when a socialist country inevitably collapses and the ruling power wants to hold on to their ideological framework. Knowing that the vast majority of the country is rebelling due to there being a shortage of food, clean water, utilities etc. the ruling power has shown the true authoritarian nature of Socialism in practice. A reminder of what the main opposition leader in the UK said about Venezuela only a few years ago @InUtero:


Of course Corbyn condemns the violence on "both sides", because he cannot admit to himself and the public what is truly going on: That his socialist dream utopian country has well and truly economically collapsed and that the Maduro regime has gone full totalitarian against their own people.

Yes, there is another way Corbyn. It's called socialism and it's evil and it doesn't work.
I don't agree with Jez on the whole Venezuela stuff. To be honest, I don't have full knowledge of what's gone on there, and would have to read and check up more about it. I'm drifting off socialism a lot, but I'd still take Corbyn over May and the Tories any day of the week. I believe him when he condemns violence on both sides, and hey - who's to say he can't change his mind on that over time? I've certainly changed my mind on a load of stuff.

But yeah, it's a bit dodgy ha. (tired answers by the way after a long shift and an overall awful day at work :p)
 

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Re: Bill before Venezuela's assembly would punish those who express "hate or intolerance" with up to 25 years in jail, political opponents probed

I don't agree with Jez on the whole Venezuela stuff. To be honest, I don't have full knowledge of what's gone on there, and would have to read and check up more about it. I'm drifting off socialism a lot, but I'd still take Corbyn over May and the Tories any day of the week. I believe him when he condemns violence on both sides, and hey - who's to say he can't change his mind on that over time? I've certainly changed my mind on a load of stuff.

But yeah, it's a bit dodgy ha. (tired answers by the way after a long shift and an overall awful day at work :p)
Corbyn's both sides statement is just as much as a cop out as Trump's both sides one. Both driven by ideological agendas Corbyn will always be a far leftist radical and this whole he's a moral politician stuff is b.s. Just being anti western foreign policy doesnt make u moral. Hes supported islamist extremist groups and authoritarian regimes like the russians and iranians simply because they are anti u.s in foreign policy.

The crap thing is the Tories are pretty bad too.
Corbyn isnt the answer though.

Labour need to get closer to the centre.

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