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Discussion Starter #1
Since Cena left, you’ve pretty much seen live attendance halved.

Without Rousey, you’ve virtually seen their media exposure slashed.

With Jericho leaving, you’ve seen a good portion of their core fan base shift their attention to Japanese wrestling and AEW ..and haven’t returned.

You’re seeing Goldberg and Taker brought back from the dead. Lesnar hasn’t been fired yet.

But all these names are either attitude era, mainstream or gained fame via their UFC run.

Who moves the needle even the slightest now? It’s judt the brand that keeps a minor audience follow. But any wrestlers? I can’t think of anything
 

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Reigns probably just cause he's the most pushed in recent years

I say the likes of Rollins, Styles, Balor, Becky, Alexa are a good drop down in the rest of the places.
 

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Won't shut up about Peyton Royce
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Lynch and Reigns move merch, but that's about it. As far as ratings/attendance draw, I would say no one
 
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AEW as the proxy moves the needle, due to the crazy media exposure and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez touting about them on twitter. Some people might not like that but its just the facts. If WWE then, capitalizes, takes NXT and moves it on AEW wednesday timeslot and gets a slot on USA Network same time, and they go head to head, then it ultimately gets more eyes on the product via channel switching.

Then move whomever is over in NXT to main show and have them do both NXT and Raw/SD but have them super over...it's really the only way I can think of to get them out of the hole they have dug and regain star power, ultimately at AEWs expense. But WWE doesn't like to be the chaser so I doubt any of this happens.

Currently 0 star power at the moment, but a war can ultimately be the draw.
 

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Asuka
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They have no one and that's the problem. And it's not that todays wrestlers can't draw, either, because AEW is drawing with no television, and many of their performers share the same drawbacks that the WWE wrestlers are criticized for. The WWE mentality of producing television simply doesn't allow people to be draws. They want everybody to be exactly the same. One day you're a "star", the next day you're not. It all depends on the program you're in, and as a result, nobody is really a star at all. They just have people that get pushed for a few months and then they're not.

The only person that can legitimately draw is The Rock when he returns every 5 years, because The Rock is bigger than the wrestling business.
 

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Lynch and Reigns move merch, but that's about it. As far as ratings/attendance draw, I would say no one
I actually like to see how much merch she moves, I say it must be up there since she went crazy big.

No one's a draw for attendance or ratings not Reigns not Becky not Goldberg, not Taker, not Lesnar. No one.
 

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Won't shut up about Peyton Royce
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I actually like to see how much merch she moves, I say it must be up there since she went crazy big.
I think they said she was the biggest merch seller and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it is true. She went crazy popular and Roman and Cena weren't around when that happened and she sort of have kept that momentum, at least when it comes to merch. That being said, neither her or Reigns move as much merch as Cena did, in fact I heard that merch overall was down like 10-14% year to year or something like that.
 

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I must away and tend to my ravens
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Nobody draws. NOBODY. You know how ratings drop consistently and the house show business is collapsing? That proves it.

They have no one and that's the problem. And it's not that todays wrestlers can't draw, either, because AEW is drawing with no television, and many of their performers share the same drawbacks that the WWE wrestlers are criticized for. The WWE mentality of producing television simply doesn't allow people to be draws. They want everybody to be exactly the same. One day you're a "star", the next day you're not. It all depends on the program you're in, and as a result, nobody is really a star at all. They just have people that get pushed for a few months and then they're not.

The only person that can legitimately draw is The Rock when he returns every 5 years, because The Rock is bigger than the wrestling business.
Only if you don't want WWE to go out of business and Vince to go bankrupt and end up back in the trailer park he grew up in.

And why wouldn't we? Haven't we given them enough chances? Haven't we believed there were plans behind the madness for long enough? LET. THEM. DIE.
 

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They have no one and that's the problem. And it's not that todays wrestlers can't draw, either, because AEW is drawing with no television, and many of their performers share the same drawbacks that the WWE wrestlers are criticized for. The WWE mentality of producing television simply doesn't allow people to be draws. They want everybody to be exactly the same. One day you're a "star", the next day you're not. It all depends on the program you're in, and as a result, nobody is really a star at all. They just have people that get pushed for a few months and then they're not.

The only person that can legitimately draw is The Rock when he returns every 5 years, because The Rock is bigger than the wrestling business.
AEW isn't drawing big yet, at least no where bigger than WWE. DON drew a house of 12000 which is only equivalent to WWE's B PPVs which fair enough is an achievement for a non-WWE promotion but to claim AEW is drawing and WWE isn't when AEW's biggest event is still a drop in the water compared to WWE's is ludicrous.
 

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Asuka
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Only if you don't want WWE to go out of business and Vince to go bankrupt and end up back in the trailer park he grew up in.

And why wouldn't we? Haven't we given them enough chances? Haven't we believed there were plans behind the madness for long enough? LET. THEM. DIE.
They're not going to die. They're making too much money. Even if they lost their Saudi and tv deals, they still wouldn't die, they'd just become TNA.

I'm all for Vince going bankrupt, but I would prefer for him to be forced out and the company he built to actually get some competent management and start putting things in order and serving the fans, rather than dying. Lest we just see AEW get a monopoly and start becoming careless themselves, and we fall into the exact same trap that WWE did yet again.

AEW isn't drawing big yet, at least no where bigger than WWE. DON drew a house of 12000 which is only equivalent to WWE's B PPVs which fair enough is an achievement for a non-WWE promotion but to claim AEW is drawing and WWE isn't when AEW's biggest event is still a drop in the water compared to WWE's is ludicrous.
It also did 100,000 buys, which is bigger than any non Big 4 PPV that WWE has. With no television.

The All Out (I think that's the name) event sold out in like 15 minutes, and there were as many people in line to buy tickets that got shut out due to demand, that is equivalent to WrestleMania. They only ran an 11 thousand seat building, but they could've legitimately sold out a stadium.

AEW has no television, and no brand name, so yes, I can say they're drawing, because the wrestlers are what people are coming to see.

And I'm not saying that AEW is ever overtaking WWE, because they're not, but they are drawing, especially compared to what they should be doing, while WWE is underperforming compared to what they should be doing. WWE has all the advantages that they should be selling out every night.
 

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They're not going to die. They're making too much money. Even if they lost their Saudi and tv deals, they still wouldn't die, they'd just become TNA.

I'm all for Vince going bankrupt, but I would prefer for him to be forced out and the company he built to actually get some competent management and start putting things in order and serving the fans, rather than dying. Lest we just see AEW get a monopoly and start becoming careless themselves, and we fall into the exact same trap that WWE did yet again.



Their latest event sold out in like 15 minutes, and there were as many people in line to buy tickets that got shut out due to demand, that is equivalent to WrestleMania.

AEW has no television, and no brand name, so yes, I can say they're drawing, because the wrestlers are what people are coming to see.
Fucking hell, selling out a show does not mean its equivalent to wrestlemania :heston. Fyter Fest is happening at the Ocean Center which has around 10000 capacity, how the fuck does selling out a 10000 capacity arena means that its equivalent to Wrestle fuckign Mania.

And secondly, a big part AEW's draw is the fact that they're anti-WWE actually not just the wrestlers. A huge portion of their audience are on the AEW hype train because they believe AEW will be able to threaten WWE so its not just the wrestlers drawing, its the brand.
 
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Asuka
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Fucking hell, selling out a show does not mean its equivalent to wrestlemania :heston. Fyter Fest is happening at the Ocean Center which has around 10000 capacity, how the fuck does selling out a 10000 capacity arena means that its equivalent to Wrestle fuckign Mania.

And secondly, a big part AEW's draw is the fact that they're anti-WWE actually not just the wrestlers. A huge portion of their audience are on the AEW hype train because they believe AEW will be able to threaten WWE so its not just the wrestlers drawing, its the brand.
I'm not talking about Fyter Fest, I'm talking about All Out. I realized I had to correct that when I said it was their "latest show". I meant the last one I heard about selling out.

They sold out in 15 minutes and there were 60 thousand people on line to buy tickets. 60,000. They had 71,000 people that wanted to go to that show, if not more. Those are WrestleMania numbers.

Yes, people think AEW can threaten WWE, but none of that would matter if AEW wasn't putting on the wrestling and the product that people want to see. That's why people think they're threatening, their ability to produce the content that fans actually want. It's not just that they have money. If AEW had equivalent or higher money but the content sucked like WWE, people wouldn't pay attention to it.
 

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I'm not talking about Fyter Fest, I'm talking about All Out. I realized I had to correct that when I said it was their "latest show". I meant the last one I heard about selling out.

They sold out in 15 minutes and there were 60 thousand people on line to buy tickets. 60,000. They had 71,000 people that wanted to go to that show, if not more. Those are WrestleMania numbers.
Source please?
 

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I must away and tend to my ravens
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They're not going to die. They're making too much money. Even if they lost their Saudi and tv deals, they still wouldn't die, they'd just become TNA.

I'm all for Vince going bankrupt, but I would prefer for him to be forced out and the company he built to actually get some competent management and start putting things in order and serving the fans, rather than dying. Lest we just see AEW get a monopoly and start becoming careless themselves, and we fall into the exact same trap that WWE did yet again.
Oh, I know they won't go out of business, I'm just past the point of wanting to see them change the way they operate, both on-screen and backstage. Let's imagine Vince was forced out, unless that was the result of a corparate buyout the person/people taking over would have learned everything from him so nothing would really change; ok, maybe there would be the appearence of continuity from one week to the next but independent contractor status? healthcare? unionisation? Yeah right.

If AEW adopt WWE business practices then I will be amoung the first to denounce them; I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt right now since most of the people in charge have been victims of WWE, be it suffering their developmental system, being made to feel the need to kowtow to bitter old veterans or being forced to play a character designed to mock his dead father or just being an attractive woman in close proximity to a bunch of creepy old men.

Shane O Mac.

:troll
Fixed it for you, I know it should be obvious but the inability of text to convey context just encourages cunts to be cunts.
 

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Asuka
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Source please?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfredkonuwa/2019/06/17/aew-all-out-garnered-more-demand-than-wwe-wrestlemania-35/#198ca7f25a74

Actually, I WAY undershot the actual figures. :lmao


AEW All Out Garnered More Demand Than WWE WrestleMania 35

AEW Officials and/or talent are still riding the highs of a honeymoon phase with no ending in sight.

This past Friday, AEW All Out inside the Sears Centre in Chicago, home of the historic All In pay-per-view that started it all, sold out in a mere 15 minutes. Not only did the venue sell out immediately, the big story coming out of first-day sales is the amount of times in which it could have sold out.

Despite having a capacity of just over 10,000, upwards of 137,600 tickets were requested by tens of thousands waiting in virtual lines, hoping to get tickets for All Elite Wrestling's second showcase.

The monster demand was yet another indictment on WWE's lapsed fanbase, many of whom are desperately seeking an alternative. According to Dave Meltzer of Wrestling Observer Radio, demand for AEW All Out exceeded that of WrestleMania 35 this past year in MetLife Stadium of WWE's home base of New York.

"[WWE] had WrestleMania in MetLife Stadium, and they sold it out quick, but it wasn't this level of demand," said Meltzer.


While reviewing pay-per-view customer data, Meltzer noted that just over a quarter of fans who purchased AEW Double or Nothing showed strong crossover with casual MMA fans who watched the last two Jon Jones fights in addition to casual wrestling fans who watched WrestleMania. Still, the remaining three-quarters who consumed AEW pay-per-views showed no such crossover, which speaks highly of AEW's success in creating an organic, grassroots following.

Despite overachieving beyond anybody's wildest imagination, now selling out three consecutive arena shows, AEW seems to only be scratching the surface of its potential as a WWE competitor. If Yhprum's Law continues to apply to AEW into the fall, its weekly national television show on TNT will only help feed a fanbase that is quickly growing at supporting this promotion at levels that are largely unheard of.

With millions of dollars left on the table following the sellout of a 10,000-seat building, considerations now have to be made for what would be a historic stadium show for the billionaire-backed promotion just five months after the promotion was officially announced on New Year's Day.

AEW All Out will feature former WWE Superstar Jon Moxley battling Kenny Omega and will be headlined by the first-ever AEW World Championship between Hangman Adam Page and Chris Jericho.
 
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