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Excerpt from my next War and Peace novel:

I honestly felt like I read a ton of people online say they cancelled their network subscription when Asuka dropped the title 2 weeks before Mania. Maybe some of them were just venting, but judging by the lowered subs in 2019, I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the contributing factors.

There were many times when Asuka was hot with crowds and on a roll and they cut the knees out from under her. I do think she was more over than Charlotte at WM34. And they basically didn't acknowledge her beating Becky in RR 2019 until basically THIS year!

This combined with the fact that Asuka likely only has a limited number of years left as an elite wrestler so she can't just wait out the bullshit until she "possibly" gets over at a convenient time where they need a Kofi or something.

I know AEW's women's division is bad, but seeing Moxley basically re-energized outside of the WWE, I wonder if Asuka might not do the same as she's someone who seems to do better with more creative control and most promotions would undoubtedly respect her too. As it stands it feels like she's in the same position Mox was in the WWE. Playing Ambrose to Charlotte and Becky's Roman and Seth. Not exactly buried, but clearly restrained because of people higher on the company totem pole than her.

I kinda rather see Asuka with full control of her character and matches with fresh new matchups I haven't seen 25909090 times already, rather than seeing her face (and job) to the same favored women in the hope that they even give her a well booked 5-6 month singles reign down the line. The fact that Bayley keeps retaining her title even when she's gone cold as ice with no interesting matchups totally shits on the argument that they "had to" take the title off Asuka because they had no good Mania opponents for her. And I won't even mention an actual positive Wrestlemania moment.

Kana going the Mox route as a regular in AEW and appearing in freelance guest spots in Japanese promotions like Stardom would really excite me a lot.

Tick tock clock. Time is running out.

Is he wrong though? Does him being so dramatic change the fact that Asuka isn't the top anything when push comes to shove? does any of this change the fact that becky is practically the most succesful woman in wwe's history? Does any of this change the fact that the match shouldn't have happened? Does any of this change the fact that Asuka is only given token pushes during slump season and is going to step aside so othe rpeople can hog the spotlight during mania season a fucking second year in a row?
This is where I make the joke that every season is now slump season. These post RR ratings are not impressive at all, this is basically the same numbers as they did vs NFL lately. The "Mania bump" seems to be dead. Can't wait until we see sub 2 million coming out of Mania.
 

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I had thought Becky might drop the title to Shayna, but I'm starting to move towards Becky retaining, and that will probably be it for Shayna as her upside as a performer is much lower than Rhea or Bianca. And I'm not even talking about Shayna's age here. Can only ever play heel, can't work entertaining matches, mediocre at best mic skills.
On one hand, they may indeed Asukae Shayna and job her to Becky but, on the other hand, the fact that they are going to these extremes to get her over points to vince having already allowed to get persuaded enough by Triple H to be willing to die on that hill. who knows? maybe he gives her a Carmella or Miz type of push where he gives her everything at WM just so he doesn't have to bend to fans a second year in a row only to then slowly fade her after that like he did with the aforementioned. Btw, Trips being willing to go to bat to these lenghts with Shayna and not with the more successful is so many levels of wrong I don't have the words to describe it.




It's not a meritocracy and it never has been. Just because Asuka is the most talented doesn't mean she's going to be at the top. It just doesn't work that way. Again, it's not a meritocracy - fair or unfair have nothing to do with who is on top.
If you go back to the golden era, there were a list of guys all better than The Ultimate Warrior, but he was placed above almost everyone because his limited shtick caught on. Not because he was the most talented in ring, cut the best promos etc.
You know, this is basically like the whole "there are other people worse than your fave" only slightly different from a reasoning standpoint. It's not that Asuka ain't given a Becky push (which, gotta admit, is bad enough for people like me and Kratos, but I digress) but that she isn't even treated as good as other people like Char... scratch that, she is never been given the sam degree of trust people like Carmella were given at certain points in their careers. With whom did Carmella connect? How come they always try with Mandy? Why has Bayley been given this opportunity now o all possible times? Why are they always willing to try and see if Natalya can get a chance? and not going to ask about Charlotte because I know the answer.

And I'm not bitching about Becky cause, see, Becky actually managed to connect with fans so, if we went twith the meritocracy argument, she would have earned her position, since fan connection is the biggest merit in this business thus bitching about her on that front would be pointless. My main complaints are, have always been and will always be about Asuka's treatment relative to those other folks who didn't gain those merits. although not gonna lie, I wish asuka were in Becky's position SO BAD you don't even begin to imagine, buddy. Man, I wish i lived in an alternate universe identical to these one except for the fact that Asuka got that push. I assure you, you wouldn't see me tell fans of other mistreated wrestlers to put up with it. Btw, gong back to the whole bitchingt and moaning thing we do on here that seems to irk lots of folks for some reason, onto the next point:





It's just so OTT and ridiculous when some uber fans act like Asuka's entire career is ruined because she lost clean to the women's champ. And in Kratos' case he'll never see any upside in anything because shitting all over everything is the easiest thing to do. Anything she wins won't be good enough, it will be tainted somehow, it won't make her look strong enough. Like a little child throwing their new toy out of the pram.
Thing is, one of , if not the main reason why Becky manged to get where she got was the fact that her fans never gave up. They kept going and they kept going, filling the web with Becky stuff related till the rest jumped on their wagon, and then they voiced their clompaints loud and clear for Vince to hear so, I'd dare venture that if all of us Asuka fans had had that same mentality, our fave would be at the very least in a much better position push wise.

and nope, she ain't top 3 push wise, she ain't even 5, and she certainly has earned the right to be in that group no matter how one looks at it.
 

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On one hand, they may indeed Asukae Shayna and job her to Becky but, on the other hand, the fact that they are going to these extremes to get her over points to vince having already allowed to get persuaded enough by Triple H to be willing to die on that hill. who knows? maybe he gives her a Carmella or Miz type of push where he gives her everything at WM just so he doesn't have to bend to fans a second year in a row only to then slowly fade her after that like he did with the aforementioned. Btw, Trips being willing to go to bat to these lenghts with Shayna and not with the more successful is so many levels of wrong I don't have the words to describe it.
To be fair, Asuka got a better push than Shayna in her first 5 months on the main roster. Sole Survivor, Royal Rumble winner, and the Wrestlemania match. Now, HHH obviously can't look out for her forever (a lot of his faves start strong and then get Vince'd after 6-12 months), but he usually lobbies to get his favorite NXT people a strong push from the outset.

The fact that they blinked on giving Shayna the RR win when she was the HEAVY favorite a week before the PPV and are now cobbling together something like patchwork to go with the same plan seems to suggest things are not completely all-in with Shayna backstage. I don't know. I'm not impressed at all with her debut and my skepticism on Vince's "high-ness" on Shayna still hasn't been erased. I haven't even heard reports he was calling HHH all the time to get her called up (unlike with Asuka, who Vince apparently did call HHH frequently to get her called up, albeit now we know to only try to get Charlotte over.)

Also, Vince won't have to worry about bending to fans with Shayna later on since I have seen little evidence that she has the dedicated fanbase that other women have. If she loses at Mania, I don't see her being popular enough to rebound to achieve much else. So she almost has to beat Becky or she won't recover.

I think Rhea is the one they truly like, and possibly Bianca from a distant second. I feel like they're blinked too many times on pulling the trigger with Shayna to make her bigger than many expected and it may be that her main roster shelf life is limited.
 

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To be fair, Asuka got a better push in her first 5 months on the main roster. Sole Survivor, Royal Rumble winner, and the Wrestlemania match
Continuing with our fairness, Asuka had connected with NXT and, after TLC, with MR crowds better than Shayna so...:)

I'd join you on the whole "Asuka also has more upside to her than Shayna" but knowing Vince, in his mind, her being a non English speaking foreigner has to be like the downside of all downsides or something like that.
 

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Continuing with our fairness, Asuka had connected with NXT and, after TLC, with MR crowds better than Shayna so...:)

I'd join you on the whole "Asuka also has more upside to her than Shayna" but knowing Vince, in his mind, her being a non English speaking foreigner has to be like the downside of all downsides or something like that.
I think there are women other than Shayna he'd prefer to push over Asuka. He might not be especially high on Asuka as a top woman, I'm just not convinced that in the long run, Shayna is one he'd prefer over her either. If Shayna works out, she might achieve similar success as Nia Jax and Carmella, but to my mind that's not what I consider as particularly good pushes either.

To be honest, aside from her english, Shayna doesn't seem to display the qualities I usually associate with Vince faves. She's not blonde, she can't play a babyface, she's not good looking, she's old and moves pretty old, and her mic skills aren't THAT great. She doesn't seem to be the type of person who can make a lot of money for the WWE. There are plenty of people on the roster who can speak english and offer more than Shayna and even they're not pushed particularly well either. I think Shayna will more likely be used like Samoa Joe has been.

It seems more likely that they will focus more on building Rhea or even Bianca after Wrestlemania than Shayna. Those two I feel like the WWE has shown that they seem to be more high on, based on their presentation thus far in main roster PPVs. I feel like they've made Shayna look like a goober (Becky standing tall over her at SS, failing to win the RR, this silly Gangrel gimmick) so far in her main roster appearances and she's barely even started and that's never a good sign.

Meanwhile, Rhea has so far always been presented in the very best light in her MR appearances.
 

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It seems more likely that they will focus more on building Rhea or even Bianca after Wrestlemania than Shayna. Those two I feel like the WWE has shown that they seem to be more high on, based on their presentation thus far in main roster PPVs.
If we go by that, Shayna won the interbrand champion bout at SvS (a Big 4 PPV) and then tied Bianca in most eliminations during the Rumble match. Oh, and as you said, Vince got pissed off when her match flopped reaction wise.




If Shayna works out, she might achieve similar success as Nia Jax and Carmella, but to my mind that's not what I consider as particularly good pushes either.
Carmella actually got a pretty big push during her run. Had her push worked out even if only a bit, she'd now be Alexa tier push wise. Fortunately for us, she failed spectacularly and Vince had no option but to phase her out after that, something that I need to point out is no one's fault but hers since the booking to get her over was there.
 

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If we go by that, Shayna won the interbrand champion bout at SvS (a Big 4 PPV) and then tied Bianca in most eliminations during the Rumble match. Oh, and as you said, Vince got pissed off when her match flopped reaction wise.
Eliminations isn't a big deal, winning it is a bigger one. I believe Nia eliminated a lot of women in a couple of Rumbles as well.

I'm not saying Shayna is being buried of course. They still have to make her "strong" for Wrestlemania so she is being pushed. I'm just saying that her push feels peculiarly half-assed for someone that many predicted bigger things out of. There's no doubt right now she's the "B" opponent and Rhea is the "A" opponent. And their presentation so far reflects that. Rhea's presentation feels respectable and dignified, in comparison to Shayna whose presentation borders on silly. Imagine if they let her stand tall at the end of SS? Or had she won the Royal Rumble? Or had her kayfabe injure Becky with an actual wrestling move instead of this cartoon biting shit? Those would be moves I'd expect if they were super-high on her.

Instead she feels like she's presented as more like a 2nd rate Umaga for their female Cena. That's why I feel like Becky may actually retain at WM.

If Shayna wins, I feel it more like it will be because Ronda helped her to set up a post-Mania Ronda feud with Becky, rather than anything to do with Shayna.
 

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I brought up the eliminations because you mentioned Bianca, whose biggest accomplishment on anything MR related is having eliminated 8 opponents.
 

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Carmella actually got a pretty big push during her run. Had her push worked out even if only a bit, she'd now be Alexa tier push wise. Fortunately for us, she failed spectacularly and Vince had no option but to phase her out after that, something that I need to point out is no one's fault but hers since the booking to get her over was there.
She did indeed. But I think they gave up on Carmella rather quicker than they would had her name been Charlotte. Charlotte can draw zero reactions for months and then still win a Royal Rumble cold.

I brought up the eliminations because you mentioned Bianca, whose biggest accomplishment on anything MR related is having eliminated 8 opponents.
Yes, it's been brief. But I feel like they started clowning Shayna's image since Survivor Series and it hasn't let up. Whereas with Bianca it's been more positive (though clearly Rhea is MUCH higher on their faves) Every appearance of Shayna has been rather silly or not-quite-full-push type presentation. You kind of get a sense of how high they are on someone by how they are presented, and I don't get "cool badass" from Shayna, I get vibes of yet another over the top villain for Becky to overcome.

Put it this way. I have way more confidence in Rhea beating Charlotte than I do Shayna beating Becky right now.
 

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Yeah, it's quite likely they give Shayna the Asuka treatment (though it's also likely they'll use her more for filler feuds due to her having the scary look and speaking english). Turns out you were right when you predicted she would flop lol.
 

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and nope, she ain't top 3 push wise, she ain't even 5, and she certainly has earned the right to be in that group no matter how one looks at it.
This is the thing. The concept of 'earned' in sports entertainment really means nothing in terms of who's promoted. I wish Asuka was the focus as she is the best, but now more than ever WWE is about bullshit like marketing, PR, brand perception blah blah blah. Brock certainly hasn't 'earned' his massive position in terms of the work he's put in, but he's there because of his huge aura, ability, and presentation.

Look I just think stuff tends to get overblown on forums when people dissect every little thing.
 

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Now until november-december (Asuka pushes always happen during that period) will have nothing to do with the RAW belt, i would even not be surprised if you see her an Kairi running after the 24/7 belt.
You already wrote the same thing one month ago and it happened a alot with Asuka the last few weeks. And you will be wrong again btw., because KW still got the titles. Also you mentioned being done with Asuka and you wanted to leave here.
But I don`t blame you, because obvisouly people here like feeding this Anti-Asuka trolling in their own fan-thread. *rolleyes

Drowning in depression and defeatism, even if there is no reason for that, seems still to be the key-feature in this thread. *rolleyes
Enjoy your time, but I won`t read all this stuff anymore. :)
 

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Yeah, it's quite likely they give Shayna the Asuka treatment (though it's also likely they'll use her more for filler feuds due to her having the scary look and speaking english). Turns out you were right when you predicted she would flop lol.
I'm not sure she will flop, of course. Anything can happen and she can win Vince over. I just think he has a certain idea of what "types" are money and traditionally, Shayna isn't the type he'd get behind. Maybe she might somehow get over like Chyna did, though. She has that sort of appeal I guess.

Asuka they will give token pushes now and again to appeal to the Asian market and they'll use her to buff up the top girls before Wrestlemania because they know she's an elite worker and they'll give her those 15-20 minute matches on TV to get it done. WWE marks will say "OMG! See, Charlotte is the GOAT worker" or "SEE I told you Becky was a good wrestler!" every time they have a banging matchup with Asuka before Mania. Of course, then they'll drop some duds around Mania time and wrestle several mediocre matches for half a year until they face Sasha or Asuka again and then everyone will be licking their boxes again. That's how the WWE operates.

They get stuck in these patterns with people and some fans wonder why others get tired of this shit. Seriously, I don't even care that AEW's women suck right now. At least Kana going there will be different change of pace and scenary. They can find someone else to buff their top girls before Mania every year. Good luck finding one who can stay healthy and still perform at a high level like Asuka though.
 

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Look I just think stuff tends to get overblown on forums when people dissect every little thing.
Yeah but, at the end of the day, it's just typing stuff on a keyboard, so as long as no one sends death threats or spreads false rumors, no one's actually harmed by any of this.


They get stuck in these patterns with people and some fans wonder why others get tired of this shit. Seriously, I don't even care that AEW's women suck right now. At least Kana going there will be different change of pace and scenary. They can find someone else to buff their top girls before Mania every year. Good luck finding one who can stay healthy and still perform at a high level like Asuka though.
Sasha and/or Kana jumping ship to AEW would have meant a lot, cause not only it would have meant them getting one or 2 elite tier workers with relatively big fandoms (which would have helped a lot, since now they'd have 5 over members for their division) but that it would also have convinced some other lesser known names to decide to sign with them. Besides, wwe's women's division was actually the drizzling shits before late 2016-mid 2017. Even now, with them hoarding as many known and respected names as they can, it's still mediocre at best for the most part.
 

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Sasha and/or Kana jumping ship to AEW would have meant a lot, cause not only it would have meant them getting one or 2 elite tier workers with relatively big fandoms (which would have helped a lot, since now they'd have 5 over members for their division) but that it would also have convinced some other lesser known names to decide to sign with them. Besides, wwe's women's division was actually the drizzling shits before late 2016-mid 2017. Even now, with them hoarding as many known and respected names as they can, it's still mediocre at best for the most part.
I saw a stat a few days ago that showed that the ONLY pro wrestler in US TV whose segments have always increased viewers, since the debut of AEW, is Moxley. Seriously, since the debut of Dynamite, not a single Moxley segment has lost viewers.

Now, take a relatively big-ish female name in the WWE, like Kana (who is more or less stuck in the same position as Ambrose was relative to her division in the WWE, with more or less the same type of fanbase that Ambrose had--loyal diehards but not quite insane and loud enough to get their guy/gal over the hump), and stick her in AEW, and there's a good chance she'd also do consistently strong numbers because she likely appeals to AEW's audience even more.

I always wondered where the million or so viewers that the WWE lost over 2019 went. Then I looked at AEW's 900k a week and realized--it's right there. Add the 900k on top of the 2.1 or 2.3m or so viewers RAW can barely muster now and you get 3 million, exactly around the numbers they were pulling around 2018-ish.

How much we want to bet those 900k or so viewers AEW gets every week are the same viewers who stopped watching the WWE when Ambrose' heel turn was fucked up, Asuka having her legs cut off every time she got momentum, them fucking up Joe and Nakamura, Daniel Bryan becoming just another guy on the roster?
 

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I always wondered where the million or so viewers that the WWE lost over 2019 went. Then I looked at AEW's 900k a week and realized--it's right there. Add the 900k on top of the 2.1 or 2.3m or so viewers RAW can barely muster now and you get 3 million, exactly around the numbers they were pulling around 2018-ish.

How much we want to bet those 900k or so viewers AEW gets every week are the same viewers who stopped watching the WWE when Ambrose' heel turn was fucked up, Asuka having her legs cut off every time she got momentum, them fucking up Joe and Nakamura, Daniel Bryan becoming just another guy on the roster?
I wont bet because I've been confident of this for quite a while now. I know wwe's has been bleeding viewers on a yearly basis but, still, the early 2019 drop was unusually big no matter how you look at it. People say it's because of Becky vs Ronda and "hurr durr wumen not in da kitchen" but if one stops to look at the bigger picture, it's obvious that AEW becoming a thing at that same time and giving that million of disgruntled hardcore fans a way to put their money where their mouths are has played the biggest factor in all of this.
 

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I wont bet because I've been confident of this for quite a while now. I know wwe's has been bleeding viewers on a yearly basis but, still, the early 2019 drop was unusually big no matter how you look at it. People say it's because of becky vs Ronda and "hurr durr wumen not in da kitchen" but if one stops to look at the bigger picture, it's obvious that AEW becoming a thing at that same time and allowing that million of disgruntled hardcore fans a way to put their money where their mouths are has played the biggest factor in all of this.
If this is the case, then wrestling really is all about who is keeping the hardcore audience now. Because not a single person in the WWE is really drawing in casuals these days, yet the WWE still keeps trying even while the core wrestling fanbase continues to bleed away because of their dislike of their pandering to casuals.

I don't think it's the women either. The audience was super hyped for Asuka back in 2017-2018, and she promo'd far less back then than now, and she botched way more on the mic more back then too. It's clear that she was over because many of them knew how good she was, and that kind of audience can only be a hardcore wrestling audience because I've seen no evidence that the current WWE has as much of that kind of audience anymore. Who are crowds getting behind now? Goofy fat guys, pancake throwers, and other strange sideshows and/or wholly mediocre meme-type wrestlers. Former smark darlings who used to get consistent support, like AJ Styles, and Daniel Bryan, barely draw reactions better than the next somewhat popular guy now.

Do we think Moxley's popularity in AEW is because he's drawing in new people who never saw him before? I DOUBT IT. It's more likely disgruntled former WWE fans seeing in him a guy finally happy and being used properly and want to get behind him now.
 

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It should've always been about keeping the core fans happy, no matter what some insecure self-hating morons may tell you. Seriously, do you see fans from other sectors getting this starved for outside approval? Do you see gamers or comic fans yearning for casuals? Hell, has there ever been a point in time when any of the big Mexican and Japanese promotions have tried to antagonize their core fanbase? The answer is no, because this is and has always been an wwe thing. You are what you eat, they say. Well, Vince has always been a self-deprecating and attention seeking moron so no wonder some of the wwe fans are like that. They fail to realize, if you don't respect yourself or what you do, then no one else will, no matter how butthurt and defensive you may get. How can you appeal to a broader audience if you can't even appeal to people that should already be more predisposed to like what you put out?
 

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The WWE also fails to recognize what online word of mouth can do for their product. Those hardcore comic book fans are a minority, but they're loud. Is it really no surprise that a comic book movie's upside often lives and dies on how it's perceived by the hardcore fans? When they give it the stamp of approval, the casuals think "Well the fans think it's good so maybe I'll check it out." The ones that are widely panned by fans may get a good first week but then they drop off a cliff in subsequent weeks.

The thing with the WWE is the only think about the first week. Which is why they don't realize the long term damage stupid angles like the Lashley/Lana thing does for them after the initial morbid curiosity bump levels off. Sure you got that short term bump but you probably also lost a few ten thousand diehards for good.

But the thing is, even if they started creating quality shows and pushing actual talented performers to their potential, it may be too late to reverse the decline because most fans have seen this before, and know that they'll fuck it up down the line. So they're resorting to constant stunt angles and pushing literally anybody who's getting a decent reaction, as long as they fit into the company's paradigm...sort of.

It's a sinking ship because they've done too much bad for too long. I suspect we'll be discussing sub 2 million RAWs fairly shortly after Mania36
 
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