Wrestling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my opinion, they are (or at least are suppose to be) one in the same. Because as a fan watching, i really dont know which one is which. Im suppose to think its all a shoot. But now in 2013 where wrestling is laughed at in the main stream, certain aspects of the show have been changed to try to appear as if to have more "realism" and will blur the lines. now they constantly try to refer to real life current events and given the opportunity incorporate it into the storyline (for example Cena calling out Rock in real life becomes basis of Rock's return, CM Punk's contract being up at MiTB). But they also have done some great Kayfabe storylines recently like Vince getting F5'd requiring surgery even though he was going to have surgery anyways.

Its a fine line to walk across but many peoples opinions differ on this are you a traditionalist and try to kayfabe the audience 99% of the time or are you a shooter and dont mind having some real life drama added in and just go with the flow of whatever happens


also share some of your greatest and favorite shoot or kayfabe'd moments of wrestling
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
Kayfabe alive without any hesitation. The " Reality Era " like many people like to call it is one of the reason I don't like the WWE anymore. That's not what the WWE should be about for me, it should be like the real version of a super-hero comic book. I don't want to see people I can see in the street, I want to see super-heroes, I want to see a epic battle. I don't want heels with a reason, I want heels that just want to destroy everybody because they are bad and I want charismatic faces that could beat up anybody ( and I mean, I could believe that. I know Punk and Bryan could probably beat up someone in reality but if I showed you a picture of Triple H vs Punk or Bryan and a picture of Goldberg vs Triple H, most people would bet their money on Goldberg and that would looks like a real epic battle )
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
well thats why we used to have different weight classes and cruiserweight and heavyweight championships. Even had a light heavyweight at one point. Because just by size, Brock vs Punk looks like a squash even though they can go out and have a great match.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,117 Posts
Its a tough one. I'm a believer that the internet has blown the door wide open and the business no longer has any mystery to it. Its impossible to get heat in 2013 cos everyone knows its fake. Not that people didn't know in the past it was fake but there still remained an element of mystery that made it easy to maintain a suspension of disbelief. Thats next to impossible these days, particularly with characters like the Wyatts. Its sad but as good of a concept as the Wyatts are, i don't think that kind of gimmick can work in this day and age because of the internet. You google Bray Wyatt, and you realize he isn't deliverance type hillbilly, he's really just the son of IRS and freaking Bo Dallas' brother. Be like if the internet was around in the late 80's, early 90's and googling the Ultimate Warrior and finding out he's not really from Parts unknown, his name is Jim Helwig from California. All the magic the business ever had is gone. The only thing that can fix it is, i was watching breaking the magicians code one time, and at the end of the series the masked magician unmasked and revealed why he gave away the secrets. He said it was because these secrets were past their used by date and he wanted to challenge other magicians to invent new and interesting tricks. Thats what the wrestling business imo needs to do to evolve and stay interesting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,758 Posts
The mystique of pro-wrestling is lost is kayfabe is openly acknowledged.I don't care if internet has killed kayfabe.I don't want it to be acknowledged on tv.That was my problem with Summer of Punk.It was ok for the first time with his pipebomb but WWE/Punk went overboard with breaking kayfabe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
But that's what they are doing, they try to invent new tricks. That's why some people call that era the " reality era ". Because now, they use the stuff the fans know like " Vince hates Bryan because he is small " to trick the fans but the problem I have with that is that unlike magic where it always stay magic, it doesn't work that way in wrestling. By using normal stuff, well, it's not epic since it's thing that happens with real characters and real situation. Bryan or Big Show are basically themselves and Triple H until last week wasn't evil, he was just the boss everybody met that would fire you because it's necessary. Nothing to do with Stone Cold, a pure ******* and Vince McMahon, the evil boss that would fire anybody for his pleasure.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
I don't presume to know what today's pro-wrestling needs. It's a different time, different fans, different mindset.

Back in the day the powers that be would never admit that the results of wrestling matches were predetermined. You couldn't pin them down on the question "Is wrestling real?" They would say things like, "Is the blood fake? Are the injuries fake??" However, you could never get a straight answer - "Yes, wrestling is real" or "No, wrestling is fake."

Of course, the only ones who believed wrestling was for real were the pre-pubescent kids like me and our 70 year old grandparents who came over on the boat. Everyone else knew, but just kept quiet so the kids and old folks could enjoy.

Pro-wrestling was sort of like Santa Claus. At a certain age you realized he doesn't exist. The age varied, but eventually your mind forced you to come to grips with reality.

On the other hand, the fact that the industry would not admit that wrestling matches were faked still left a ray of hope, albeit a very small ray of hope, that wrestling just might be for real. Or, at least the big matches and championship matches were for real we reasoned as we got older and reality began to set in.

Today the industry admits being nothing more than a show. That's honest, but kills the fantasy for the kids and new generation of old folks, i.e. ME!:lol

What to do? You guys figure it out. I'm crawling back into my mind and relive some Buddy Rogers matches from the sixties.:|

- Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
How the fuck was the CM Punk contract thing real life? Surely about as obvious kayfabe as possible.

'his contracts up tomorrow and today and we're putting him in a title match' :vince4



Anyway, I dont mind sort of shooty little promos but I think when it becomes the actual storyline itself it generally becomes pretty boring.
 

·
Ted the Moth
Joined
·
12,866 Posts
I'm for keeping kayfabe alive, BUT I believe that can be achieved with the 'realism' kayfabe they have going on today. The thing is you just have to be careful with it, like CM Punk was in the 2011 'shoot' that started all of this. People think he broke kayfabe, but he never actually did, he spoke vaguely of people being afforded certain opportunities, which is something that's completely plausible within the confines of kayfabe. It's about tiptoeing around that line but never actually crossing it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How the fuck was the CM Punk contract thing real life? Surely about as obvious kayfabe as possible.

'his contracts up tomorrow and today and we're putting him in a title match' :vince4



Anyway, I dont mind sort of shooty little promos but I think when it becomes the actual storyline itself it generally becomes pretty boring.
you obviously havent seen his dvd then. He explains that he didnt sign another contract until about halfway through MiTB. The angle was real and he really was given an open mic to air his grievances, obviously they planned to cut him off when he had gone too far
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,380 Posts
The mystique of pro-wrestling is lost is kayfabe is openly acknowledged.I don't care if internet has killed kayfabe.I don't want it to be acknowledged on tv.That was my problem with Summer of Punk.It was ok for the first time with his pipebomb but WWE/Punk went overboard with breaking kayfabe.
Exactly, and call it a petty reason, but it was why I turned on Punk. That is a turn off, and it also seems like an easy way out. Everyone thinks Punk is so great on the mic because of it. I can see right through the BS.

I will take a passionate John Cena promo about his match against Ryback, instead of a smart ass pipebomb about backstage heat and HHH's personal life any day.

At some point nothing is going to be "real" anymore and they will start making up backstage rumors just to keep smarks engaged. EVERYTHING in wrestling has been done now, and it is why I am losing interest in it. I'm just sticking around for the Cena heel turn if it ever happens (even that might be ruined due to the death of kayfabe, the guy is gonna get cheered right after he turns. Unless he beats a phenom at Wrestlemania or something, that might work.).
 

·
Ted the Moth
Joined
·
12,866 Posts
you obviously havent seen his dvd then. He explains that he didnt sign another contract until about halfway through MiTB. The angle was real and he really was given an open mic to air his grievances, obviously they planned to cut him off when he had gone too far
Oh yeah, he flat out tells you the truth, on a WWE DVD production? Hmmm :hmm:

WWE would never in a million years promote someone for an extended time period, and place them in a PPV ME if they weren't sure it was for the long term, especially not someone as cautious as Vince McMahon. Contract was not signed on the day of the show, much less half way through the thing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,704 Posts
you obviously havent seen his dvd then. He explains that he didnt sign another contract until about halfway through MiTB. The angle was real and he really was given an open mic to air his grievances, obviously they planned to cut him off when he had gone too far
Of course it was



Stop embarrassing yourself :lol
He called the daughter of the boss of the company idiotic and the father of his grandchildren (soon-to-be boss) a doofus and he was still scheduled to compete for the title and to win it.

Ask yourself why Punk was champion a couple of weeks after calling Vince McMahon a bully and saying that he hopes that the company would be better when he dies but AW isn't in WWE after the Kobe Bryant Joke, Jim Cornette isn't after slapping Santino Marella and Nailz wasn't after a confrontation with Vince McMahon backstage
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
I'm down for "realistic" kayfabe. I want to see the "Punk shoot" on May '11--as the standard. That's what I'd like to see at the "very" least. Now give me EVEN MORE and go from there.

Am I asking too much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,998 Posts
Professional wrestling isn't professional wrestling without kayfabe, characters, storylines, etc. Without kayfabe, WWE is just fake MMA. Why not just watch UFC then? The reason pro wrestling blew up is cuz of awesome characters (Hogan, Andre, Flair, Rhodes), and it needs to stay that way. Like the first poster said, we want to see epic battles. We want to see mega good guy Goldberg Vs mega bad guy Triple H, with Goldberg wanting to kill Triple H cuz of something Triple H did to Goldberg. We need a story. That's where pro wrestling differs from other things, like MMA. Pro wrestling without kayfabe is just fake MMA, it would not be drawing big crowds anywhere. Big crowds gather to see big stuff, like Hulk Hogan Vs Andre the Giant, or The Rock Vs John Cena, or Undertaker Vs Triple H, or Stone Cold Vs The Rock.

The moment kayfabe dies, is when the idea of this art dies. You could argue that since 2007 (around Benoit's incident), kayfabe has really gone to the background, but when you ask me "Does pro wrestling need kayfabe?", the answer really is, what is pro wrestling without kayfabe?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
Of course it needs Kayfabe, but in 2013 the focus should be on making it as believable as possible. Personally I don't give a fuck about the storyline aspect cause in the end, I know it's all bullshit. So I enjoy the wrestling & the art of them attempting to pull of the angle. Actually being sucked into the angle is something I just can't do no matter how much I try. So while I agree it needs the Kayfabe, I personally don't give a crap about it.
 

·
Parks and Recreation Dept.
Joined
·
7,683 Posts
There's nothing wrong with blurring the lines sometimes, but I just want some fucking PASSION in storylines, feuds and promos. Too many guys are cutting too many cookie-cutter promos that come off as them reciting from a script, word for fucking word. And it's boring, month in and month out.

It's 2013. Everything has been done in pro wrestling. But some passion in a random Cena, Punk or Bryan promo can get even the most jaded IWC smark a little excited for an upcoming match. I didn't like the build-up to the first Rock/Cena match because it was too much of a dick-swinging contest on the mic. "Oh, I WENT there!" "Well I went HERE!" "Well I said THIS!" "Well YOUR LINES ARE VISIBLE!" Say what you want about the sequel, but the build to Mania 29 was much better because it was about selling a Championship match, and the promos from both Cena and Rock were excellent.

Punk's pipe bomb two years ago was incredible, but those should only happen in the right place at the right time with the right speaker. As far as everything else, just be passionate about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,555 Posts
Professional wrestling isn't professional wrestling without kayfabe, characters, storylines, etc. Without kayfabe, WWE is just fake MMA. Why not just watch UFC then? The reason pro wrestling blew up is cuz of awesome characters (Hogan, Andre, Flair, Rhodes), and it needs to stay that way. Like the first poster said, we want to see epic battles. We want to see mega good guy Goldberg Vs mega bad guy Triple H, with Goldberg wanting to kill Triple H cuz of something Triple H did to Goldberg. We need a story. That's where pro wrestling differs from other things, like MMA. Pro wrestling without kayfabe is just fake MMA, it would not be drawing big crowds anywhere. Big crowds gather to see big stuff, like Hulk Hogan Vs Andre the Giant, or The Rock Vs John Cena, or Undertaker Vs Triple H, or Stone Cold Vs The Rock.

The moment kayfabe dies, is when the idea of this art dies. You could argue that since 2007 (around Benoit's incident), kayfabe has really gone to the background, but when you ask me "Does pro wrestling need kayfabe?", the answer really is, what is pro wrestling without kayfabe?
Yes. Very much this. Professional wrestling is only popular because of the well choreographed moves and story lines. It is soap opera for men and an art form. Basically it is dance, even though few see it that way. Do away with kayfabe and all you've really got is some sweaty men dancing in their underwear.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i like some of these responses you guys make some solid points
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top