[TheQuestionaire]

Next you will claim that the Earth is flat and question why people think it's not.....grow up.

Yes, if you believe that Vince just for some reason decided to sit at ringside, when he as absoloutely no reason to, he can communicate iwth the announcers. People not seeing the punch, by the way Bret claimed he knocked him out cold by punching him in the eye and knocked him out with 1 punch.

When was the last time you saw proffesional boxers knock people out this way? Temple,Jaw ,chin is how you knock someone out.

In the age of sports entertainment, the World Wrestling Federation REFUSES to insult it audience in terms of "Baby Faces" and "Heels". In 1997, how many people do you truly know that are strictly "good" guys or "bad" guys? World Wrestling Federation programming reflects more of a reality based product in which life, as well as World Wrestling Federation superstars are portrayed as they truly are--in shades of gray...not black or white.

That's a quote from Vince McMahon a few days before the screw job. He didn't think he was going face. He knew the fans would boo the sh out of him no matter how he acted and this was just about creating his character as well convincing the back that he screwed Bret because it is the right thing to do.

If people are dumb enough to believe that was real, I don't know what to say. Too many things about that whole thing went right.
If you wanna know what a sports disaster looks like? Watch Mike Tyson bite Holyfield's ear. Everyone lost in that situation, yes, even Holyfield, because Holyfield didn't get to win and he himself felt that victory was empty. Or even if you wanna look at wrestling, Owen's death, like what did Owen's death accomplish?

 

[promoter2003]

In the age of sports entertainment, the World Wrestling Federation REFUSES to insult it audience in terms of "Baby Faces" and "Heels". In 1997, how many people do you truly know that are strictly "good" guys or "bad" guys? World Wrestling Federation programming reflects more of a reality based product in which life, as well as World Wrestling Federation superstars are portrayed as they truly are--in shades of gray...not black or white.

That's a quote from Vince McMahon a few days before the screw job. He didn't think he was going face. He knew the fans would boo the sh out of him no matter how he acted and this was just about creating his character as well convincing the back that he screwed Bret because it is the right thing to do.

The thing is with that promo in real time, I took this as Vince admitting he was no longer trying to force babyface champions since he had Austin who was red hot and was obviously going to be set up for his new champion unlike Hogan.

The thing with Vince and that "Bret Screwed Bret" promo, Vince was trying to portray Bret as a sell out like his other champions going down south. It wasn't about him being heel imo and was nothing like a heel promo like say Hogan's. The thing is those watching Off The Record already knew Bret's complaints about leaks of him leaving. Bret if I remember correctly stated at a Detroit house show before the ppv there were scant "you sold out" chants.

They even showed Bret doing the WCW finger writing to show how he was now with the competition the night after on RAW if I remember correctly. IMO, Vince wanted to Huckster and Nacho Bret to the public. I remember them saying they were not going to make any mention of Bret and WCW inside the ring, but Bischoff threw the first punch on Nitro and HBK retaliated when it was said he wasn't suppose to make mention of it.


The problem were those Off The Record interviews which kind of told a different story, but due to it being in Canada Vince probably thought majority wouldn't know who were watching elsewhere. Vince ended up going on there months later after realizing just how that Bret interviews were spreading online. This is where the momentum came with Vince getting more heel attention imo.

 

[promoter2003]

I am not saying he is the oracle, but Prichard has said Vince was certain he would become a face after the Bret screwed Bret promo.

It makes sense though because the company was successful in painting WCW as the evil corporation. Vince losing another one of his champions to the big bad corporation of Ted Turner would position WWF as the face in that scenario and paint Bret as the heel after breaking tradition up north.

The truth was Bret still had four weeks left on his contract. Vince used the situation to break Bret and put over his new champion that would be used to put over his new flagbearer Austin. He wanted Bret to come off as a heel heading down south, but the opposite happened. I actually did think the title needed to go to HBK instead of any alternate scenario if HBK/Austin was the decided Mania main event over Bret/Austin. HBK was already pushed as the leader of the new generation in 1996 at Mania.

 

[thorn123]

It makes sense though because the company was successful in painting WCW as the evil corporation. Vince losing another one of his champions to the big bad corporation of Ted Turner would position WWF as the face in that scenario and paint Bret as the heel after breaking tradition up north.

The truth was Bret still had four weeks left on his contract. Vince used the situation to break Bret and put over his new champion that would be used to put over his new flagbearer Austin. He wanted Bret to come off as a heel heading down south, but the opposite happened. I actually did think the title needed to go to HBK instead of any alternate scenario if HBK/Austin was the decided Mania main event over Bret/Austin. HBK was already pushed as the leader of the new generation in 1996 at Mania.

I am no HBK fan, but he was the obvious choice.

Didn’t Bret say he was totally going to drop the title to him, just not on ppv in Montreal but on a subsequent raw?

And if it’s true Bret has creative control on his contract, he had every right to do that?

 

[gillbergisback]

It shouldn't be a shock that Vince told anyone who would listen that he'd be a face for this. Vince screwed someone over for real. You can't say yeah this will make me the biggest heel ever. That right is an admission of guilt. He had to live the lie.

 

[promoter2003]

I am no HBK fan, but he was the obvious choice.

Didn’t Bret say he was totally going to drop the title to him, just not on ppv in Montreal but on a subsequent raw?

And if it’s true Bret has creative control on his contract, he had every right to do that?

Bret wanted to drop the title to Ken Shamrock as I remember reading that years ago and more recently Shamrock admitted it.

"Bret told me before the Screwjob happened. He came to me and said that he wanted to do a program and he wanted to drop the strap to me. I didn't understand what was happening, all the stuff behind the scenes and he didn't say anything either, it was just like this is what he was gonna pitch to Vince, this is what we were gonna do. And so I was pretty excited about the opportunity, of course, you know, we all know what happened."

Bret had reasonable creative control for the last 30 days of the contract. He put that in there knowing if he took the year out clause in the contract how the WWF always did their stars going to the competition to lower their stock.

It shouldn't be a shock that Vince told anyone who would listen that he'd be a face for this. Vince screwed someone over for real. You can't say yeah this will make me the biggest heel ever. That right is an admission of guilt. He had to live the lie.

Thing is this is the same Vince that thought Roman would be cheered at the Rumble after fans wanted Daniel Bryan. On paper it would look like a lock for Roman getting cheers with Rock coming to his aid, but it had the opposite effect.

Speaking of The Rock, Vince also thought he was going to a huge face as Rocky Maivia.

 

[jds49ers]

Im kinda in the Bret screwed Bret camp. His contracted ended the night of the PPV. There was no way Vince was letting him leave that PPV the champ. I don't care what you think about losing in front of your home town. It doesn't matter you are out the door. If Bret was the professional that he claims he was he would of dropped the strap to whom ever the boss said to.

 

[Jets4Life]

I have that documentary on VHS, so stopping the sale of it didn't work so well. Great film.

I believe Vince treated the Canadian market differently. However, even in Canada there was no promotion for the video. I bumped into it at an HMW and bought it too. You wouldn't even knew it existed unless you are a hardcore wrestling fan.

Im kinda in the Bret screwed Bret camp. His contracted ended the night of the PPV. There was no way Vince was letting him leave that PPV the champ. I don't care what you think about losing in front of your home town. It doesn't matter you are out the door. If Bret was the professional that he claims he was he would of dropped the strap to whom ever the boss said to.

you are missing the point. Bret said he would drop the belt to anyone but HBK....He also said that he would lose to anyone outside Canada. There was a PPV before is no compete clause ended in early December, which he said he would drop the belt.

Bret Hart had every right to refuse to lose to HBK in Canada, considering he had reasonable creative control at the end of his contract, and the fact that Micheals refused to go with plans to drop the belt to Bret at WM13

 

[jds49ers]

you are missing the point. Bret said he would drop the belt to anyone but HBK....He also said that he would lose to anyone outside Canada. There was a PPV before is no compete clause ended in early December, which he said he would drop the belt.

Bret Hart had every right to refuse to lose to HBK in Canada, considering he had reasonable creative control at the end of his contract, and the fact that Micheals refused to go with plans to drop the belt to Bret at WM13

Yeah he could refuse, then Vince took it into his own hands. It doesn't matter when his no compete ends, this was his last paid appearance for WWF. In hindsight Vince should of just stripped him of the title and moved on. But he thought Bret would do the right thing by the company.

 

[gillbergisback]

The thing is with that promo in real time, I took this as Vince admitting he was no longer trying to force babyface champions since he had Austin who was red hot and was obviously going to be set up for his new champion unlike Hogan.

The thing with Vince and that "Bret Screwed Bret" promo, Vince was trying to portray Bret as a sell out like his other champions going down south. It wasn't about him being heel imo and was nothing like a heel promo like say Hogan's. The thing is those watching Off The Record already knew Bret's complaints about leaks of him leaving. Bret if I remember correctly stated at a Detroit house show before the ppv there were scant "you sold out" chants.

They even showed Bret doing the WCW finger writing to show how he was now with the competition the night after on RAW if I remember correctly. IMO, Vince wanted to Huckster and Nacho Bret to the public. I remember them saying they were not going to make any mention of Bret and WCW inside the ring, but Bischoff threw the first punch on Nitro and HBK retaliated when it was said he wasn't suppose to make mention of it.


The problem were those Off The Record interviews which kind of told a different story, but due to it being in Canada Vince probably thought majority wouldn't know who were watching elsewhere. Vince ended up going on there months later after realizing just how that Bret interviews were spreading online. This is where the momentum came with Vince getting more heel attention imo.

I agree that the point of the post was to explain their current direction and the embrace of an edgier characters but he's also showing a clear understanding of what the landscape was. Everything he said there applies to him too.

I also agree that Vince was likely trying to cut down Bret's WCW run so that's probably another reason for him to not go full blown heel. I just don't buy the narrative that he actually thought this was going to make him face. What was it 2 weeks before the screw job that Austin stunned him and the crowd at MSG went bat sh crazy. There's just no way Vince could miss that.

 

[Goku]

Of course. I think the majority of the audience believes it was real.

Because the WWE told us it was real.

I really don't care either way; keeping things kayfabe makes movies/sports/tv/wrestling/politics/religion etc. all more engaging. If you wanna play that game, by all means.

Reality is fluid and depends entirely on the player character.

 

[NapperX]

Yes, if you believe that Vince just for some reason decided to sit at ringside, when he as absoloutely no reason to, he can communicate iwth the announcers. People not seeing the punch, by the way Bret claimed he knocked him out cold by punching him in the eye and knocked him out with 1 punch.

When was the last time you saw proffesional boxers knock people out this way? Temple,Jaw ,chin is how you knock someone out.

You haven't provided anything to back up your conspiracy theory. This conspiracy theory has been debunked numerous times. He had a reason to be at ringside even though it wasn't a good one, it's his company. Bret Hart was a trained wrestler, McMahon wasn't, what's your point about a punch? lol. Vince underestimated at how mad Bret would be. You wouldn't be mad at your boss if he screwed you over in front of your customers or clients? Why do you think security escorts recently fired employees out of a bank? hint hint.

 

[BrrrGoesWooo!]

The issue here is all of that is heresay. My coworker Bernard may have told everyone that I used to smuggle corn dogs across several states in exchange for cat clothes. However, not everyone is really going to believe I smuggled corn dogs in exchange for cat clothes just because Bernard made that statement. So we really don't know for sure what happened without being there ourselves.

Those must have have been pretty good corndogs.. How were the cat clothes btw, did you try them on?

 

[Hephaesteus]

Unless cornette's either lying or a dumbass, vince def thought he was going to be a face coming out of this. Hell look at the aftermath where he was trying to be the bigger man despite getting spit on and what not. Thats someone who thinks they're face

 

[James Cagney]

It was scripted. I can't believe people believe it wasn't. Vince wanted to create a moment that will remain special for a long long time and they succeeded in it.

 

[TheQuestionaire]

It was scripted. I can't believe people believe it wasn't. Vince wanted to create a moment that will remain special for a long long time and they succeeded in it.

To me , it probably was an attempt to shift the tide with WCW.

The people who believe it was real can watch Mike Tyson bite Holyfield's ear to see that no one won in that situation. Montreal for some reason, there was no loser

 

[Hunter's Penis]

Vince on his dying breath "It was me....It was me all along Wrestling fans"

 

[CaféDeChampion]

It's a half-truth. The Montreal Screwjob being a work didn't happen. However, the WWE version that they put out is highly sensationalized. They will pass over the fact that this wasn't a " Tonight or never " deal, that Bret wouldn't show up on WCW until the next WWE PPV, that Vince tried to damage control the whole thing and come out as a face. that Bret was willing to drop the belt until Shawn went overboard.

Heck, you know another reason why the WWE loves this screwjob? Because they did another screwjob, one where they screwed out Wendy Richter out of the women's title when she was more popular than many midcarders and a reason for the success of Wrestlemania. The Montreal Screwjob is the perfect candidate to not only create a interesting narrative for the Monday Night War but also wash away what they don't want to be remembered.

 

[gillbergisback]

Unless cornette's either lying or a dumbass, vince def thought he was going to be a face coming out of this. Hell look at the aftermath where he was trying to be the bigger man despite getting spit on and what not. Thats someone who thinks they're face

Did Cornette know about the screw job? No. It's not about being an idiot he just believes what Vince is telling him. Vince has every reason to tell people he thinks he will be face and the public will side with him. He screwed Bret for real. It's not like he's going to be walking around laughing and saying I bet that makes me the biggest heel ever.

 

[Hephaesteus]

Did Cornette know about the screw job? No. It's not about being an idiot he just believes what Vince is telling him. Vince has every reason to tell people he thinks he will be face and the public will side with him. He screwed Bret for real. It's not like he's going to be walking around laughing and saying I bet that makes me the biggest heel ever.

Not only did Cornette know about the screw job, but he was the architect behind the plan. If anybody not named vince would know anything, it would be him.
Vince thought he would be the good guy cuz he thought hed be seen as the benevolent boss protecting/saving the belt from an ungrateful malcontent that left to go to another company. Did he run with it once he became a heel? Sure, doesnt change the fact that he initially thought he was the face in this situation.