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To them it means they might've been wrong and they're never wrong.
Or they're too wrapped up in their circle jerk of abusive rightwingers where they know that leaving their comfortable space would mean abuse and insults for leaving / changing their mind because apparently in right wing spaces changing your mind is akin to either being a "faker" or a "traitor" like I was treated for abandoning trump by the trumptards on here - despite the fact that I had made it clear that support for leadership is and has to be conditional based on their actions, not blind fucking loyalty like some of these Trumpkins have. .

These people are as cancerous to each other as much as they are to everyone else.
 

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I think that sums up Mr Devito, my advice is to give up trying to educate someone that apparently knows everything about parenting who isn't one; and also someone who has no apparent background or done a shred of research in a topic but knows everything about it.

I think for some people their egos simply won't allow opening their mind to different possibilities or taking in other perspectives. To them it means they might've been wrong and they're never wrong.
You don't need to do research in order to prove that the sky is blue. POS children usually have POS parents. This is common sense to the average person. You don't need to be a parent yourself to know this. You are intentionally trying to deflect.

And @FriedTofu I never said parenting was the only reason, just that it is the most important one. Or would you debate that as well?
 

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It's down to nature, education and culture mostly. I could go into a lengthy discussion about childhood development, an area I studied to masters level, but in a nut shell it depends on how you were raised. If you were raised by knuckle dragging parents, got a poor education and are not aware of cultural surroundings, you will most likely grow up to be one of these primitive people. If you grew up with a good family habitus, then you will likely not. Simplistically put, you are what you were raised to be.
 

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It's down to nature, education and culture mostly. I could go into a lengthy discussion about childhood development, an area I studied to masters level, but in a nut shell it depends on how you were raised. If you were raised by knuckle dragging parents, got a poor education and are not aware of cultural surroundings, you will most likely grow up to be one of these primitive people. If you grew up with a good family habitus, then you will likely not. Simplistically put, you are what you were raised to be.
@FriedTofu
@yeahbaby!
@Reaper
 

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Right it's a nurture thing.

People who are criminals, who are gang members... these aren't people who were failed by the system or 'societal influences'. They were failed by their parents first.

People only join gangs in the first place because it provides them a sense of belonging. They don't have a family at home so they go looking for one elsewhere.
Whatever those reasons maybe, at the end of the day none of them will compare as a determining factor than the way that person was raised. By and large children who love their parents, respect their authority and feel a sense of belonging do not go out and join criminal gangs. Not unless they get addicted to drugs or something.

This was a common trope in just about every family sitcom that has ever been made. There was always that episode where one of the kids ends up hanging with the wrong crowd and is tempted to do wrong but in the end they come to their senses and realize that isn't who they are. Either that or are they are caught by their parents and are set straight. The moral of the story is that family helps overcome the dark side.

If you were to interview every single convicted gang member in the world, what percentage of them would you guess grew up without any real sense of parental guidance? I'm willing to bet at least 80-90% of them, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were like 95%.
Uh... yea? Because it's a familiar reference point the average person can understand? Sitcoms obviously do not play out exactly as things do in real life, but the takeaway is still the same. Family values trump all.

Children who are raised in those environments are far less likely to go down the wrong path. I don't know why you think this should come as a surprise to anyone.
:unsure:
 

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It's down to nature, education and culture mostly. I could go into a lengthy discussion about childhood development, an area I studied to masters level, but in a nut shell it depends on how you were raised. If you were raised by knuckle dragging parents, got a poor education and are not aware of cultural surroundings, you will most likely grow up to be one of these primitive people. If you grew up with a good family habitus, then you will likely not. Simplistically put, you are what you were raised to be.
Are you replying to the original question of the thread or the discussions over why people join gangs?
 

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Are you replying to the original question of the thread or the discussions over why people join gangs?
I guess both now you mention it. I was aiming it at the original post.

Now I've read all of the replies, I see a bit argument about poverty and joining gangs. From experience as a teacher in a deprived area, I can say that it is true that it is a factor. With that said, it's not that black and white. Radicalisation (whether towards terror or gangs) begins with a group offering a sense of belonging that the young person never had, before instilling an us vs them mentality, which leads to committing crimes and leaving them open to abuse. Poor families with good ethics are very unlikely to join them, however broken homes in these backgrounds or abusive ones tend to be your prime targets, alongside young people with special needs. Also, it has been noted in research that certain ethnic groups in certain neighbourhoods are more likely still to end up in gang environments - they often recruit them through peer pressure and offering a sense of belonging. These ethnic groups vary from place to place obviously. In a nutshell, poverty absolutely is a reason for joining gangs, but not the only.
 

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I guess both now you mention it. I was aiming it at the original post.

Now I've read all of the replies, I see a bit argument about poverty and joining gangs. From experience as a teacher in a deprived area, I can say that it is true that it is a factor. With that said, it's not that black and white. Radicalisation (whether towards terror or gangs) begins with a group offering a sense of belonging that the young person never had, before instilling an us vs them mentality, which leads to committing crimes and leaving them open to abuse. Poor families with good ethics are very unlikely to join them, however broken homes in these backgrounds or abusive ones tend to be your prime targets, alongside young people with special needs. Also, it has been noted in research that certain ethnic groups in certain neighbourhoods are more likely still to end up in gang environments - they often recruit them through peer pressure and offering a sense of belonging. These ethnic groups vary from place to place obviously. In a nutshell, poverty absolutely is a reason for joining gangs, but not the only.
Hmmm I see that's a well reasoned and great response. It sounds like a complex issue with many factors to consider, not something black and white as you say.

Who would've thought issues like these ones can actually be complicated with so many aspects? It might be easier if we can get a sitcom to lay it all out one day rather than a bunch of pesky 'expert' studies.
 

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Hmmm I see that's a well reasoned and great response. It sounds like a complex issue with many factors to consider, not something black and white as you say.

Who would've thought issues like these ones can actually be complicated with so many aspects? It might be easier if we can get a sitcom to lay it all out one day rather than a bunch of pesky 'expert' studies.
^ Wow looks like someone is real pissy from losing an argument on the internet.

Literally everything he said is what I said in my earlier posts. How children join gangs out of a sense of belonging, how children raised with strong family values are unlikely to be effected, etc... yet you chose to argue instead.
 

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Hmmm I see that's a well reasoned and great response. It sounds like a complex issue with many factors to consider, not something black and white as you say.

Who would've thought issues like these ones can actually be complicated with so many aspects? It might be easier if we can get a sitcom to lay it all out one day rather than a bunch of pesky 'expert' studies.
Definitely, they seem straight forward looking from the outside, but then so do many things. The age of social media has made the issue even worse in recent years. Those pesky expert studies tend to be well researched though. They sometimes prove wrong or out of date, but the basic psychology behind why people join gangs, cults etc never changes.

Here's a bit of light reading on the subject gents. This short piece spells out perfectly the similarities between terrorist radicalisation and gang recruitment and correctly points the cause down to context. Page 16 onwards for the most part, though p17 for the problem with economic deprivation. It's UK based (where I'm trained to look out for signs of this in young people), but the basic idea remains the same everywhere. I did in fact find some research based in Australia a few years ago while studying my Masters, and I had to dig deep into it while helping a PHD students out with the idea of Turkish integration and assimilation into the UK. Sadly I never saw the finished product of the latter though.

 

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I guess both now you mention it. I was aiming it at the original post.

Now I've read all of the replies, I see a bit argument about poverty and joining gangs. From experience as a teacher in a deprived area, I can say that it is true that it is a factor. With that said, it's not that black and white. Radicalisation (whether towards terror or gangs) begins with a group offering a sense of belonging that the young person never had, before instilling an us vs them mentality, which leads to committing crimes and leaving them open to abuse. Poor families with good ethics are very unlikely to join them, however broken homes in these backgrounds or abusive ones tend to be your prime targets, alongside young people with special needs. Also, it has been noted in research that certain ethnic groups in certain neighbourhoods are more likely still to end up in gang environments - they often recruit them through peer pressure and offering a sense of belonging. These ethnic groups vary from place to place obviously. In a nutshell, poverty absolutely is a reason for joining gangs, but not the only.
This seems to sum up what we have been trying to put across to the other poster who keep saying poverty is not that important.

Definitely, they seem straight forward looking from the outside, but then so do many things. The age of social media has made the issue even worse in recent years. Those pesky expert studies tend to be well researched though. They sometimes prove wrong or out of date, but the basic psychology behind why people join gangs, cults etc never changes.

Here's a bit of light reading on the subject gents. This short piece spells out perfectly the similarities between terrorist radicalisation and gang recruitment and correctly points the cause down to context. Page 16 onwards for the most part, though p17 for the problem with economic deprivation. It's UK based (where I'm trained to look out for signs of this in young people), but the basic idea remains the same everywhere. I did in fact find some research based in Australia a few years ago while studying my Masters, and I had to dig deep into it while helping a PHD students out with the idea of Turkish integration and assimilation into the UK. Sadly I never saw the finished product of the latter though.

It seems everything you posted supports our positions and yet the idiot think you are somehow laying the smackdown on us for him. lol
 

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Definitely, they seem straight forward looking from the outside, but then so do many things. The age of social media has made the issue even worse in recent years. Those pesky expert studies tend to be well researched though. They sometimes prove wrong or out of date, but the basic psychology behind why people join gangs, cults etc never changes.

Here's a bit of light reading on the subject gents. This short piece spells out perfectly the similarities between terrorist radicalisation and gang recruitment and correctly points the cause down to context. Page 16 onwards for the most part, though p17 for the problem with economic deprivation. It's UK based (where I'm trained to look out for signs of this in young people), but the basic idea remains the same everywhere. I did in fact find some research based in Australia a few years ago while studying my Masters, and I had to dig deep into it while helping a PHD students out with the idea of Turkish integration and assimilation into the UK. Sadly I never saw the finished product of the latter though.

Thanks for the links and info. Do you know of any sitcoms that deal with this though? Stuff that lesser minds might understand.
 

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@Dickhead1990

In your estimation, what would you say is the largest factor in determining whether or not a child will turn to a life of crime and/or join a gang?

Even if we are to assume several factors are at play, can one insinuate that the quality of the parenting is the most important? In most cases can't a child with loving, caring and hardworking parents overcome a lot of those pitfalls?
 

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@Dickhead1990

In your estimation, what would you say is the largest factor in determining whether or not a child will turn to a life of crime and/or join a gang?

Even if we are to assume several factors are at play, can one insinuate that the quality of the parenting is the most important? In most cases can't a child with loving, caring and hardworking parents overcome a lot of those pitfalls?
In 100% of cases, it's never down to a single factor. But quality of parenting is definitely a major factor. I don't want to say the most important because people can be radicalised by peers, despite good parenting. Though realistically in most cases, I would say a good home environment is the most important factor. This is taking into account habitus, a stable environment and the type of people they mix with in their neighbourhood. This is not taking into account poverty, which we already know is a factor in most cases, but not THE reason.
 
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