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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What I am proposing here is an idea, to give Raw and Smackdown their own identities. This is something slightly drastic and could be an unpopular one, but anyway here it goes.

No matter how we want both the brands to be equal, Vince will always have RAW as his flagship show and SD the "land of opportunities" AKA the land of wrestlers who are broken toys, used and thrown away by the flagship show.

So, maybe it's fine to embrace it and make things more distinct.

Now, this is what I would like to see.
1. Make RAW, the show of all the established superstars. All the established world champions, women's champions and tag team champions will be on this show.
2. Make Smackdown, the show of all the upcoming superstars, like NXT lite and include all those superstars, who have been there for a while, but not been able to get a break in the main event.

Now, the title structure of both the shows will be like this:

RAW
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1.WWE World Heavyweight Title
2.WWE World Tag Team Titles
3.WWE World Women's Title
4.WWE World Cruiserweight Title (The title should be treated on par with the other World titles, so that any big star under 205lbs (eg.Balor) should kayfabe wise be motivated to go for it as it is not considered as a secondary title)

Smackdown
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1.WWE Intercontinental Title
2.WWE Intercontinental Tag Team Titles
3.WWE Intercontinental Women's Title

Benefits of this structure
------------------------------
1. Currently, there are no single undisputed champions who can claim as the best in WWE, as there are two sets of titles for ALL the divisions. By changing to this structure, it is clear that three undisputed World champions are there in Singles, Tag and Women's division.

2.By rebranding the titles with the prefix "Intercontinental". I am not sure whether it's acceptable for everyone, but I believe it could garner a lot of interest as it indeed creates that feeling of climbing up the career, by first winning the Intercontinental title of each division before reaching the pinnacle of the division. Also, when the secondary women's and tag titles are getting the prefix of "Intercontinental", the original "Intercontinental" title is also getting a huge facelift as it legit gives a feel that it is the big thing to be won before going to the World title divisions.

3.There could be an argument that SD will be losing on starpower, but that can be corrected by the next thing that I would like to mention.

After every Wrestlemania, there should be a difference in the structure of debuts and call ups to Raw and Smackdown.

On RAW after Mania, RAW will be getting call ups ONLY from Smackdown and NOT from NXT.
On SD after Mania, SD will be getting all the exclusive callups from NXT!


This gives viewers an interest to tune in to see, who all get called to the World leagues from the Intercontinental leagues AND for SD, which all of their favourite NXT stars get calls to the Land Of Opportunity.

And one more think I would like to see is the concept of Relegation. The evaluation period for callups and relegations will be from the night after the Wrestlemania an year ago to the Wrestlemania, the night before. Eg: For 2017 Callups and Relegations, the period of evaluation will be from RAW after Mania 32 to Mania 33.

So, RAW superstars and tag teams, who failed to capture any of the World titles from RAW in this period, will be relegated to SD, where they can reinvent themselves, go for any of the IC titles, win them and get called back to RAW, in the next year. This will avoid wrestlers who are simply floating on the A-Show just because of the accolades they had, years back. (Eg: Natalya, Mickie James, Big Show, Mark Henry and so on.)


What do you guys think?
 

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Good idea. They are going for your idea at the moment kind of, just with the current titles.

I wouldn't mind seeing this. Just instead I would like the IC and US titles be merged and have the CW title on SD and the new IC/US title on RAW. I doubt this will ever happen tho since the US title has it's own gimmick and the IC title is historical.
 
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USA would never allow it. The ratings for Smackdown would plummet, no NXT call up would make up for literally advertising Smackdown as "the show with the guys you don't care about.. yet" Plus Raw already has an issue with people getting lost in the shuffle, moving all the players there would only exasperate the problem.

It might work if Smackdown was a WWE network show, but as long as it's on normal television I just don't see it.
 

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Sounds pretty damn cool man. The only thing I don't like is the fact that everything would be called the Intercontinental "BLANK" Championship on SmackDown. This is how I think the belts should work if your awesome idea was true.

RAW
-World Heavyweight Championship(Bring back that Big Gold Belt)
-Intercontinental Championship
-World Women's Championship
-World Tag Team Championship

SmackDown
-WWE Championship
-United States Championship
-WWE Women's Championship
-WWE Tag Team Championship

That would make everything on RAW much bigger than SmackDown considering SmackDown would have the champions of the WWE and United States respectively while RAW would have the champions of the World and the champion of many continents.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good idea. They are going for your idea at the moment kind of, just with the current titles.

I wouldn't mind seeing this. Just instead I would like the IC and US titles be merged and have the CW title on SD and the new IC/US title on RAW. I doubt this will ever happen tho since the US title has it's own gimmick and the IC title is historical.
I forgot to add the CW title picture in my division. Thanks for mentioning the CW division. Actually, I would put CW division in RAW itself rebranding the title as "WWE World Cruiserweight Title". Why I want it to be a part of RAW is because, most of the times, CW title is the ceiling for most of the cruiserweights, so I believe it's unfair to put them in SD as it will never give them a chance to be a part of the A-Show (RAW), no matter how much they try. And I would rebrand it as World CW title is because, I would like to see the division as legit as possible so that even huge stars like Finn Balor could also be part of the division.

PS: I'll just add this to the original post as well.

Yeah, I agree with the merger of the titles. They can merge to create the new Intercontinental title, that could be the primary title of Smackdown. And what you said about US title having a gimmick; well, the problem I have always found is that the US title gimmick is aimed at the American viewers only. I feel this is an outdated concept and it's kinda ironic to have a US title especially when WWE is trying to cross all borders and to bring their reach to as many countries as possible. The gimmick associated with US title is so archaic because most of the times we get to see feuds that feature Americans vs anti Americans and all those "USA" chants. But have they ever thought of people outside US? I don't think it's very relatable for them and it creates all these stupid USA vs The World kinda emotions, which are uncalled for and not relatable by many ways.

USA would never allow it. The ratings for Smackdown would plummet, no NXT call up would make up for literally advertising Smackdown as "the show with the guys you don't care about.. yet" Plus Raw already has an issue with people getting lost in the shuffle, moving all the players there would only exasperate the problem.

It might work if Smackdown was a WWE network show, but as long as it's on normal television I just don't see it.
I think you misread that part of my post. I mentioned exactly the opposite, actually. I said, NO NXT Callups for RAW. RAW will STRICTLY be gettin call ups from SD.

SD will be the ONLY show to get all the exclusive call ups from NXT and that would be the USP of the show.

Sounds pretty damn cool man. The only thing I don't like is the fact that everything would be called the Intercontinental "BLANK" Championship on SmackDown. This is how I think the belts should work if your awesome idea was true.

RAW
-World Heavyweight Championship(Bring back that Big Gold Belt)
-Intercontinental Championship
-World Women's Championship
-World Tag Team Championship

SmackDown
-WWE Championship
-United States Championship
-WWE Women's Championship
-WWE Tag Team Championship

That would make everything on RAW much bigger than SmackDown considering SmackDown would have the champions of the WWE and United States respectively while RAW would have the champions of the World and the champion of many continents.
Logically, this is the same as what I thought, but why I changed these names are mainly because, for all these years, these names were almost synonymous with each other. No matter how much we feel "World" title is supposed to be bigger than the "WWE" titles, WWE just changes it according to their wish. And the World title has been tarnished a lot especially when in its later years. And also, having both World and WWE titles make it convenient for WWE to have 10 time and 12 time WWE Champions by counting even World title reigns along with WWE title reigns, which is kinda unfair. All those non senses can be avoided, if you are having Intercontinental title as the primary title of SD, so that they won't get to add those titles as "World" title reigns.

It might sound slightly confusing from the way I put it, but I hope you got it.

And I believe WWE title should be the primary title, sheerly because of its leniage and prestige. Universal title mainly fails in this department.
 

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I think you misread that part of my post. I mentioned exactly the opposite, actually. I said, NO NXT Callups for RAW. RAW will STRICTLY be gettin call ups from SD.

SD will be the ONLY show to get all the exclusive call ups from NXT and that would be the USP of the show..
No I got it, I was saying call everyone up from NXT if you want, it wouldn't replace Styles and Cena and Smackdowñs ratings would plummet.

Plus moving all the really over guys to Raw would only result in more really over guys being misused and or underused, something that's already a problem as is.


Not trying to shit on your idea btw, as I said I think there are ways for your idea to work, just not with the television system working the way it is :D
 

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It's a good idea, however the biggest issue would be the ratings. Can't have a show without stars.
 

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Who would do all the jobbing? The shows are separated and that's the greatest issue facing the company. If they really want the shows to seem separate the WWE has to bring back their only form of competition, or reinvent their own. NXT isn't the solution to this problem, but it certainly helps provide the talent.

Shane McMahon runs SD and so he could easily brand it WCW Smackdown

I think this could be something that is quite possible. They did bring back ECW for some time, but we all know how that went. It was never going to be the same ECW, but Vince didn't care he thought he had something. Terrible move on his part. This is a little different as WCW wasn't as niche as ECW was. With that said we know kayfabe wise Shane owns WCW. Bring it back? Jim Ross at ringside with Tony Schiavone? Lol.

21st Century Wrestling

This is far more unlikely, but I like this idea because it's not something we've heard before. Again, Shane McMahon is involved and I think an angle like this could work. He sells his shares of WCW and full ownership of the company (kayfabe) to a private group of investors. All that Shane is aware of is this. The only investor to come out publicly is Hulk Hogan. Hogan says he owns roughly 5% of the company and will have control over Talent Relations and Training.

I would have it revealed that Paul Heyman is also a huge contributor as well, but doesn't own as much as Hogan. Every so often the so called Private Investors reveal who they are publicly. The last investor should be none other than HHH. He owns the whole god damn thing practically. Of course this is all in kayfabe. They don't own shit, except for actually HHH, but not 93%. Again this is a company under the WWE umbrella, but it's appearing as though it's competition to WWE's Raw program.

21st Century Wrestling will basically be NXT, but without the name NXT. HHH has proven what wrestling today should look like. He did it with outside stars and no names who weren't WWE and made it work. He did it all under the WWE Umbrella. Finally, he realized that he could generate enough income being married to a McMahon and create the WWE's greatest rival, 21st Century Wrestling. It's like he turns heel, but turns face at the same time. Depends on who you ask.
 
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OP has forgotten that to be a world title everyone must compete for it. If the title is restricted to women, cruiserweight or teams, it is not a world title
 

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I forgot to add the CW title picture in my division. Thanks for mentioning the CW division. Actually, I would put CW division in RAW itself rebranding the title as "WWE World Cruiserweight Title". Why I want it to be a part of RAW is because, most of the times, CW title is the ceiling for most of the cruiserweights, so I believe it's unfair to put them in SD as it will never give them a chance to be a part of the A-Show (RAW), no matter how much they try. And I would rebrand it as World CW title is because, I would like to see the division as legit as possible so that even huge stars like Finn Balor could also be part of the division.

PS: I'll just add this to the original post as well.

Yeah, I agree with the merger of the titles. They can merge to create the new Intercontinental title, that could be the primary title of Smackdown. And what you said about US title having a gimmick; well, the problem I have always found is that the US title gimmick is aimed at the American viewers only. I feel this is an outdated concept and it's kinda ironic to have a US title especially when WWE is trying to cross all borders and to bring their reach to as many countries as possible. The gimmick associated with US title is so archaic because most of the times we get to see feuds that feature Americans vs anti Americans and all those "USA" chants. But have they ever thought of people outside US? I don't think it's very relatable for them and it creates all these stupid USA vs The World kinda emotions, which are uncalled for and not relatable by many ways.
I think this would work but as some of the other posters have mentioned it might work better if the top stars were spread a little more, don't have all the top stars on Raw.

Have most top stars on Raw like you suggest but have 1-3 established stars on SD to give the rub to the up and coming stars, guys like Cena and Orton are the perfect position to pass on their star power. Because at this point the WWE are trying to make both SD and RAW equal competitors to revive that Nitro v RAW dynamic.

On the CW title I actually agree in hindsight, you know it's probably better on RAW. Since they probably won't merge the US and IC titles- I would like something even more unlikely to happen.

Bring back the hardcore title as it was with 24/7 rule etc but this time treat it with more respect like the revived CW title so it's still a fun title but it actually means something, something like the prime x division title mixed with the classic hardcore title in spirit.
 
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I prefer it as Smackdown being the workrate show, and Raw being the sports entertainment show like it was in the past. Smackdown could be more focused towards a more wrestling orientated audience, utilizing talents for their ability in the ring, with maybe a few segments of promos and backstage stuff, while Raw could be more centered around entertainment like it was during the Attitude Era.

Smackdown Roster
AJ Styles - Top Face
Kevin Owens - Top Heel
Nakamura - Face
Cesaro - Heel
Sami Zayn - Face
Samoa Joe - Heel

The above could be the new Smackdown 6
 

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or just end the brand split and utilize both shows in order to spread out use of talent. Go back to one WWE champ, 1 mid-card champ (us and intercontinental merge), 1 tag, 1 women (im even okay with 1 womens tag team)...and that's it. You can have that one European, TV title, smackdown title, etc belt so you can have really young brand new stars competing for something (like Darren Yong, Tye Dilinger etc).

Just treat smackdown like a normal show... some weeks Raw will have Reigns/Strowman, some weeks smackdown will have them..some weeks NEITHER show will be on them (You can have them show up for dark matches to appease crowds if that's your concern). You have FIVE HOURS of programming at your disposal. that shuld be plenty of time to give everyone time...the belts aren't watered down and they mean something...and with the use of the ENTIRE roster at your disposal, you can have more factions/groups/good angles. It's not complicated.


OR you have 1 show a week....and the rest is on the network.
 

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What? The star of each show aren't enough of an identity for each show?

:ha
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No I got it, I was saying call everyone up from NXT if you want, it wouldn't replace Styles and Cena and Smackdowñs ratings would plummet.

Plus moving all the really over guys to Raw would only result in more really over guys being misused and or underused, something that's already a problem as is.


Not trying to shit on your idea btw, as I said I think there are ways for your idea to work, just not with the television system working the way it is :D

It's a good idea, however the biggest issue would be the ratings. Can't have a show without stars.
I think this would work but as some of the other posters have mentioned it might work better if the top stars were spread a little more, don't have all the top stars on Raw.

Have most top stars on Raw like you suggest but have 1-3 established stars on SD to give the rub to the up and coming stars, guys like Cena and Orton are the perfect position to pass on their star power. Because at this point the WWE are trying to make both SD and RAW equal competitors to revive that Nitro v RAW dynamic.

On the CW title I actually agree in hindsight, you know it's probably better on RAW. Since they probably won't merge the US and IC titles- I would like something even more unlikely to happen.

Bring back the hardcore title as it was with 24/7 rule etc but this time treat it with more respect like the revived CW title so it's still a fun title but it actually means something, something like the prime x division title mixed with the classic hardcore title in spirit.
Yeah, that risk is indeed there. But that's why I thought a concept of getting 'relegated' to Smackdown from RAW could be introduced. I haven't figured it how exaclty it can be implemented, but maybe something like this; if a RAW superstar have not held the World title for the last two years, he should be relegated back to Smackdown. The same being applicable to the Women and Tag Teams as well. By that way, many of the stars who had been champions of the past, but are simply floating around without any title reigns in the recent times, could reinvent themselves on Smackdown. Even a 13 time champion like Orton was having a gap of more than 2 years before his last title run, until recently. So, such stars should be put in Smackdown.


Who would do all the jobbing? The shows are separated and that's the greatest issue facing the company. If they really want the shows to seem separate the WWE has to bring back their only form of competition, or reinvent their own. NXT isn't the solution to this problem, but it certainly helps provide the talent.

Infact, I would prefer a brand split where both RAW and Smackdown are EQUALS and there is absolutely no compromise in that. But in the real scenario, no matter how much they try to portray Smackdown as something great, it is almost very clear how they treat RAW as the A-Show and Smackdown as the B-Show. And the hypocrisy is that they are supposed to have a "ratings war" so that Vince could satisfy his ego by watching RAW winning all the damn time. Because of this situation, I have proposed an idea like this.

Shane McMahon runs SD and so he could easily brand it WCW Smackdown

I think this could be something that is quite possible. They did bring back ECW for some time, but we all know how that went. It was never going to be the same ECW, but Vince didn't care he thought he had something. Terrible move on his part. This is a little different as WCW wasn't as niche as ECW was. With that said we know kayfabe wise Shane owns WCW. Bring it back? Jim Ross at ringside with Tony Schiavone? Lol.

21st Century Wrestling

This is far more unlikely, but I like this idea because it's not something we've heard before. Again, Shane McMahon is involved and I think an angle like this could work. He sells his shares of WCW and full ownership of the company (kayfabe) to a private group of investors. All that Shane is aware of is this. The only investor to come out publicly is Hulk Hogan. Hogan says he owns roughly 5% of the company and will have control over Talent Relations and Training.

I would have it revealed that Paul Heyman is also a huge contributor as well, but doesn't own as much as Hogan. Every so often the so called Private Investors reveal who they are publicly. The last investor should be none other than HHH. He owns the whole god damn thing practically. Of course this is all in kayfabe. They don't own shit, except for actually HHH, but not 93%. Again this is a company under the WWE umbrella, but it's appearing as though it's competition to WWE's Raw program.

21st Century Wrestling will basically be NXT, but without the name NXT. HHH has proven what wrestling today should look like. He did it with outside stars and no names who weren't WWE and made it work. He did it all under the WWE Umbrella. Finally, he realized that he could generate enough income being married to a McMahon and create the WWE's greatest rival, 21st Century Wrestling. It's like he turns heel, but turns face at the same time. Depends on who you ask.
This sounds cool. Although I am not very high about the WCW thing, because if it happens too, there is a high probability that it could tarnish the legacy of WCW by getting treated as a secondary show to WWE. Well, the 21st Century Wrestling idea is great. Even though it's basically NXT, this gives more depth to the whole thing with the investor's stuff.


OP has forgotten that to be a world title everyone must compete for it. If the title is restricted to women, cruiserweight or teams, it is not a world title
WWE had "WORLD Tag Team Titles" until 2010, for RAW brand. So, I think the logic could be applicable for Women and Cruiserweights as well.


I prefer it as Smackdown being the workrate show, and Raw being the sports entertainment show like it was in the past. Smackdown could be more focused towards a more wrestling orientated audience, utilizing talents for their ability in the ring, with maybe a few segments of promos and backstage stuff, while Raw could be more centered around entertainment like it was during the Attitude Era.

Smackdown Roster
AJ Styles - Top Face
Kevin Owens - Top Heel
Nakamura - Face
Cesaro - Heel
Sami Zayn - Face
Samoa Joe - Heel

The above could be the new Smackdown 6
This scenario, like the RA 2003 period, is cool. But now WWE is pretty much forgot about "sports entertaining". Both the shows are trying to fit in as much wrestling as possible, without having some memorable angles or storylines that considerably progress week by week. So, I thought of following it in the same path. Atleast, divisions to climb and progress could garner some interest to the shows, where there is a significant lack of entertainment, in the first place.

or just end the brand split and utilize both shows in order to spread out use of talent. Go back to one WWE champ, 1 mid-card champ (us and intercontinental merge), 1 tag, 1 women (im even okay with 1 womens tag team)...and that's it. You can have that one European, TV title, smackdown title, etc belt so you can have really young brand new stars competing for something (like Darren Yong, Tye Dilinger etc).

Just treat smackdown like a normal show... some weeks Raw will have Reigns/Strowman, some weeks smackdown will have them..some weeks NEITHER show will be on them (You can have them show up for dark matches to appease crowds if that's your concern). You have FIVE HOURS of programming at your disposal. that shuld be plenty of time to give everyone time...the belts aren't watered down and they mean something...and with the use of the ENTIRE roster at your disposal, you can have more factions/groups/good angles. It's not complicated.


OR you have 1 show a week....and the rest is on the network.
If booked well and everything and everyone is given proper time to develop, this would be the perfect scenario.

What? The star of each show aren't enough of an identity for each show?

:ha
Not enough I guess :argh:
 

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Yeah, that risk is indeed there. But that's why I thought a concept of getting 'relegated' to Smackdown from RAW could be introduced. I haven't figured it how exaclty it can be implemented, but maybe something like this; if a RAW superstar have not held the World title for the last two years, he should be relegated back to Smackdown. The same being applicable to the Women and Tag Teams as well. By that way, many of the stars who had been champions of the past, but are simply floating around without any title reigns in the recent times, could reinvent themselves on Smackdown. Even a 13 time champion like Orton was having a gap of more than 2 years before his last title run, until recently. So, such stars should be put in Smackdown.
I like the idea of relagation in principle but it enforces the notion of SD being the B show which the WWE is working hard to get past.

Would rather it be more balanced but as you suggested I wouldn't mind seeing some be relegated back to NXT in that case which is pretty much what you would like SD to be more like.

Rather I would like to to work both ways. Say Orton is floundering on SD hasn't had a world title run in a good while send him to RAW for a revival, same with say Big Show on RAW to SD etc.

Now for new up starts like Elias Samson, if his gimmick doesn't catch on as intended on RAW shift him to SD, and if that isn't doing good numbers, NXT can patch things up.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I like the idea of relagation in principle but it enforces the notion of SD being the B show which the WWE is working hard to get past.

Would rather it be more balanced but as you suggested I wouldn't mind seeing some be relegated back to NXT in that case which is pretty much what you would like SD to be more like.

Rather I would like to to work both ways. Say Orton is floundering on SD hasn't had a world title run in a good while send him to RAW for a revival, same with say Big Show on RAW to SD etc.

Now for new up starts like Elias Samson, if his gimmick doesn't catch on as intended on RAW shift him to SD, and if that isn't doing good numbers, NXT can patch things up.
If the WWE is genuinely working hard to get past that B-Show tag, they would have drafted either Roman Reigns or Brock Lesnar (they are the two biggest stars who were having the biggest wins at Mania) to Smackdown. But we were almost 100% sure that Reigns or Lesnar won't be drafted to Smackdown and it would have been a huge shocker if any of those moves happened. That itself is an indication of how we perceive Smackdown and how we know that Vince would not let Smackdown to be genuinely on par with RAW. So until and unless this real equality is attained, maybe it's better to embrace it and see it as the secondary show.

And what you have said about relegating to NXT, I am totally in agreeance with. Infact, I was thinking of 3 stages - RAW being the premier league, SD being the secondary division and NXT being the tertiary. If you get relegated from RAW, you move to SD. If you further get relegated, you move to NXT.
 

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This is a very cliche idea around these parts suggesting Raw be for all the " entertainment/established/Vince guys" while SDL is the "show for us real fans blah blah Heyman blah blah Smackdown 6" is a generic idea.

Part of the problem with the brand split is like with the talent some are waaay too into whats Vince's favorite. SDL is always going to be the unfavored partly because some of yall want it to be that way
 
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