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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

It's always up to the top billed guy to bring in the box office. When you go to see a Mayweather match, it's not to see the other boxers on the rest of the card. Same with Tyson, Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr, etc. Same with McGregor in UFC. I've never seen people blame guys on the middle of the card with zero hype for their matches get blamed, except by smarks in the WWE. Sorry smarks. Your boy Reigns is garbage.
 

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#1 Somamaniac
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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

People just need to realise that the top guy on Raw are not good at drawing. Lesnar is the star but interest in waning for him and I'm sure the part time thing doesn't help either. Reigns well, uggh. Strowman has the potential to be huge but matches like the Lesnar one won't help at all. Joe is injured and Cena is off till the Rumble. It's a sad fact but people have to face it.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Meh the argument seems to be Reigns vs Styles. Both have proven they can't draw. But to be fair no one else can either.

The only brand that grew was NXT under Balor yet he is still waiting for his opportunity. And that's the only thing remaining to do. Give him the spotlight and see if he can put butts on seats.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Meh the argument seems to be Reigns vs Styles. Both have proven they can't draw. But to be fair no one else can either.

The only brand that grew was NXT under Balor yet he is still waiting for his opportunity. And that's the only thing remaining to do. Give him the spotlight and see if he can put butts on seats.
Nobody can draw. Give Reigns the mic skills and charisma of Connor McGreogor, give him the move set of AJ Styles, give him the hottest fire music and make him the greatest wrestler on the planet and it won't draw. Wrestling is dying under Vince and will do so for as long as he's in charge of the day to day.
 

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some of you guys seem really ignorant, a lil research or checking on ppl who would know this stuff like vince russo, jimmy (the former wwe ref on twitter) that wwe brass get more indept ratings than what we get, the actually have min by min rating break downs so they know what people are tuning in for, so making assumptions like third hour cratered because of roman reigns & miz or that Enzo isn't a draw is just unfounded and foolish to do...the ratings we get to see are 1) averages and 2) like ive mention before in this thread and its previous iterations are not even exact numbers but are like political poll numbers...a lot of probability mix with semi educated guess work, so ppl using this to batch roman or anyone for that matter should, get some knowledge before they share with us mortals their profound musings...P.s dave metlzer blows !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

I havent watched since WM 32 when Shane lost to Taker. Its not just Roman Reigns. Its that they havent got anyone on the roster that casual cares about. If someone from the AE or RA eras were to watch today they wouldn't have many to care about. But even if they did; there hasnt been anything to be invested in plot wise. There is more drama on Love and Hip Hop than in WWE. Has been this way for years.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Watched some of the RAW shows at the Summer of Punk era. He single-handedly forced me to watch RAW by his very presence. The product was crap but Punk had charisma for days.

I know, speaking only for me, that there isn't anyone in WWE right now who has that star image and attitude to get viewers in.
 

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TAFKA KroKro
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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

I love how we're talking about who draws.

Nobody is a draw anymore. It's the entire company that's the draw, and now that's failing. Literally everyone is a failure in that regard. Reigns isn't qualified because nobody can be qualified. Everything the WWE does now is just dreadful, everyone is a joke except Lesnar and Reigns and because kayfabe is no longer a secret it doesn't make Reigns look bad ass but it makes it look like he is the golden boy. To make it worse WWE acknowledge it, they know, they use it in storylines, which even makes it worse. Balor could draw, no matter what you guys want to say. Wyatt could draw too. Styles definitely can draw. Reigns can draw. Rollins, Ambrose, Nakamura, Owens, even Zayn.. they can all draw. It's just WWE restricts everything and it's so pathetic that it won't happen.

It's a real shame, all you guys with your most and least favorites. They aren't at fault. It's the company.
 

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Greek God of Knowledge
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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

So when Ric Flair was killing shit was he not the draw.
1. Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens aren't Ric Mother Fucking Flair.

2. Those were much, MUCH different times.

Do people not blame HHH for not drawing during the reign of terror? Did people not blame Jeff Jarrett for the same thing when he was smashing guitars every week?
Which time period are you talking about in regards to Jarrett? WCW? TNA?

Do people not blame Jinder for SmackDown's current woes?
Yes, and they will continue to do so because they don't know any better.

Are the nWo not credited with drawing big for WCW? Do People not consider the Bullet Club a big draw outside of WWE? Heels can draw, they draw by getting fans see them get their ass kicked. The idea that a heel champ isn't supposed to bring fan in the arena is bull shit
Okay, here is the problem with that logic.

Hulk Hogan started out as one of the biggest faces in the history of Pro Wrestling. He was an established big name and at that point had spent the majority of his time as the same character. Triple H was also well established before he started his so called reign of terror in 2003.

Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins don't have that. They weren't global icons before becoming top heels. Their world title reigns were the first ones they had on the main roster.

Like I said it's always an excuse or coddling.
No, it's not an excuse. You can't sit there with a straight look on your face and think that Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and Triple H are valid examples as to why Owens and Rollins should be able to draw as heels. Again, Owens and Rollins didn't have anywhere close to the kind of fame, glory or even booking that those three had during their times. They weren't around nearly as long. Hogan's heel turn was a huge success that everyone was clamoring for and wanted to happen. People were booing him as a face before he turned heel. People legitimately wanted it. How is that a valid example? Especially when many considered Seth Rollins to be the one who would be a face when the Shield ended?

I mean people will go "well you can't blame Owens for not drawing he's a heel and hasn't got as much as Reigns" yet on SDL people are all smug with "look at Jinder not drawing" I mean he's a heel why is he expected to draw? I mean sure he's the champ, but clearly AJ and Owens are more important than him, they've got more in their career. It shouldn't be his responsibility to draw even if he's a heel champ according to your logic right.
No, because that isn't my point. Hell the situation on Smackdown is different on it's own. Right now AJ and Owens are being featured far more heavily on the show than Jinder is. Even this past week, both AJ and Owen's segments/feuds got more attention than Jinder's did. I'm not blaming everything on Jinder. Hell I don't even think he's the main problem.

My point is that context is extremely important when determining why someone performs the way they do as far as drawing is concerned. If you're gonna point out things like the NWO and Ric Flair, the writing should be on the wall regarding why they were so successful in doing so.

Am I flat out saying Rollins and Owens are more capable draws than Reigns? No. Truth be told I don't know who is the more capable draw, or who is more capable of being face of the company. I have a low opinion of Rollins in general, and I can't see Owens working as a face. But I can't sit here and say that they wouldn't do a better job than Reigns would, especially when you consider how terrible of a job Reigns has done himself. I have no way of knowing that. For all I know, if we give Owens a shot as the top face, he could produce much better results than Reigns. Same with Rollins. Same with Styles. Who the hell knows. No one is making excuses however. We're using logic.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Is this really surprising? WWE has been in a decline for a while now and eventually they will be going the way of WCW if they continue this way. It is almost inevitable. Something needs to change.

And I do not blame the stars at all. This has been caused by short-term thinking and tunnel vision.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

I love how we're talking about who draws.

Nobody is a draw anymore. It's the entire company that's the draw, and now that's failing. Literally everyone is a failure in that regard. Reigns isn't qualified because nobody can be qualified. Everything the WWE does now is just dreadful, everyone is a joke except Lesnar and Reigns and because kayfabe is no longer a secret it doesn't make Reigns look bad ass but it makes it look like he is the golden boy. To make it worse WWE acknowledge it, they know, they use it in storylines, which even makes it worse. Balor could draw, no matter what you guys want to say. Wyatt could draw too. Styles definitely can draw. Reigns can draw. Rollins, Ambrose, Nakamura, Owens, even Zayn.. they can all draw. It's just WWE restricts everything and it's so pathetic that it won't happen.

It's a real shame, all you guys with your most and least favorites. They aren't at fault. It's the company.
Thank You. Nobody draws nowadays. And that's not on the talent..that's on the WWE for failing to make people interested in their talent. So I don't get why people are arguing about who's a draw or not.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show


But he doesn't want to talk about half of the Smackdown arena being empty under AJ's watch. He blames Jinder because he's the champion. Guess what? AJ is the US Champion and Roman hasn't held a title all year. If they wanted to buy a ticket to see AJ, then they'd buy a ticket to see AJ. Quit making excuses. Your guy isn't doing shit either. No one is more qualified to be FOTC than Reigns. Get over it.




He makes more Reigns threads than AJ threads. He's made more Reigns threads than all of us combined. It's really sad.
Yeah because the us championship really means a lot these days and Jinder is a master of the mic like Jericho and as charismatic as the rock and a pioneer in the ring like Daniel Bryan.

Roman is a failure stop living in denial and accept it.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Interesting note: Raw had 6800 attendance on a go-home tv show to ppv that had John Cena vs Reigns and Brock Lesnar vs Strowman. ROH sold out 5500 capacity arena for their house show in 3 days and only Kenny Omega was announced at that point.
The market is burned out from WWE Shows. Simple as that. Their remaining audience isn't big enough to sell 104 Live TV shows (Raw and SD), plus House Shows, plus 18 PPVs or whatever the number is.
 

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#1 Somamaniac
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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Interesting note: Raw had 6800 attendance on a go-home tv show to ppv that had John Cena vs Reigns and Brock Lesnar vs Strowman. ROH sold out 5500 capacity arena for their house show in 3 days and only Kenny Omega was announced at that point.
Fuck me, really? Wow. That TV money is really saving WWE at the moment.


I always thought their was a big gap in attendance from WWE (number one in U.S) and ROH (number two in U.S) but their is only a thousand.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

Fuck me, really? Wow. That TV money is really saving WWE at the moment.


I always thought their was a big gap in attendance from WWE (number one in U.S) and ROH (number two in U.S) but their is only a thousand.
TBH that was a little bit cherry picked stat on my part. Usually WWE does better numbers and that house show in Chicago will be ROH's best attendance event ever. But I think what we are seeing here is that the casual fan base is getting smaller.

But to me the idea that 2 faces of their eras Cena and Reigns cannot generate enough interest to pull away clearly from ROH house show is laughable.
 

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Re: Raw draws poor attendance for major market show

What are the going prices for Raw and Smackdown? I haven't been to a show in a long time. Maybe prices are too high?
 
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