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You know a year before WWE got the FOX deal, TV experts were claiming that WWE wouldn't get any decent TV deals yet they got two of the biggest they ever got. TV is a weird thing and if you can get two networks bidding against each other than anything can happen.

It's too early to say anything, let's not forget that 2023 is three years away and anything can happen, fuck Vince could sell to Disney and it ends it up being on Disney+ or something like that.
 

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You know a year before WWE got the FOX deal, TV experts were claiming that WWE wouldn't get any decent TV deals yet they got two of the biggest they ever got. TV is a weird thing and if you can get two networks bidding against each other than anything can happen.

It's too early to say anything, let's not forget that 2023 is three years away and anything can happen, fuck Vince could sell to Disney and it ends it up being on Disney+ or something like that.
If that happens, y'all better stop watching WWE, unless you're a masochist for corporations.
 

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Ex Con With A Heart Of Gold
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Arguing which people gain or lose 100,000 when the industry is in the mainstream gutter after the last 10 years of terrible decisions made by WWE, Impact and Ring of Honor seems comical to me.
I don't think there's anyway to "fix it." American wrestling needs to enter that retention phase and please what they even have left right now. Just like, staunch the bleeding, and have WWE stabilize and AEW stabilize, at like the biggest show doing 1.5 million and other shows in that 150,000 to 750,000 or a bit better range.
The times when pro wrestling blew up were cultural fads and freak boom period, lightning in a bottle phenomenon. I don't think chasing that stuff is going to do anybody any favors. Not the companies, not the viewers.
 

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But will it do in 25 years? That WWE is consistently with all three hours in the top 7 is nothing to ignore. And 90 day fiancé will lose steem in a few years, but RAW will still be up there.

I could pull up these posts since I joined ages ago and each year there were 3 „when will WWE go down“ „once the tv contract is up they are fucked“. And now here we are, billion $ contracts and no one complained publicly from the networks.

And in three months time there will be the next thread from some AEW mark about this.
WWE’s ratings are collapsing at 3x the rate of the overall viewing audience for all shows. That wasn’t happening when they were renewed. So this is a new situation.

Do I think that there will not be another deal? No, they will get something else. But it likely will not be much more, and may be much less. WWE is devaluing itself in the eyes of its fanbase, and why should Amazon or Disney spend $450M a year in 2024 if only 800K people (US) are watching at that point.

Do I think they are going under? That’s impossible under their current deals. Will they be at a weaker state or subject to a buyout by Disney or Amazon in five years...maybe. And if so, then we’ll see if the new leadership is better, or a modern day version of Turner Broadcasting taking over Jim Crockett Promotions.
 

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I'm really struggling to think of another long established media brand/publicly listed company partaking in such obvious self harm and potential crash and burn, like WWE has been doing.
Blockbuster Video. WWE is like blockbuster. Really popular in the 1990s. Completely outdated now.
 

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Blockbuster Video. WWE is like blockbuster. Really popular in the 1990s. Completely outdated now.
They have generated more revenue in the past 15 years with Cena and Rollins on top than the 80s and 90s which had Austin and Hogan on top.

WWE is doing okay. Could be better. But okay.
 

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And again getting people to cheer for you ISN'T charisma. Charisma is your personality which Bret Hart NEVER had hence why he couldn't draw and WWF were tanking with him as the top guy.
You are not the first, nor the last wrestling fan who doesn't have a clue of what the word charisma means.

Which is sad, because you are always arguing about things you don't even know.

They have generated more revenue in the past 15 years with Cena and Rollins on top than the 80s and 90s which had Austin and Hogan on top.

WWE is doing okay. Could be better. But okay.
You mean Reigns?

WWE has learn to do more money with the years because they optimized their way of making money with what they have, with the time, they run more events, their tv, merchandise, licences, deals are better.

They are a better company in terms of structure and organization, they just learn to use their monopoly and get the most out of it, despite their popularity dropping down in a historical level.

But sadly this won't last em that much, seeing as their fans are dissapearin, their are going to die sooner than later.
 

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Ex Con With A Heart Of Gold
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The revenue that WWE got is wonderful for WWE but its divorced from them putting on quality shows. Its bad for the fans because they aren't spending that money in wise, entertaining ways. WWE is a whitewashed tomb, man. Its got 2 billion of whitewash slopped on it, and then you crack it open, and every metric used to otherwise judge a wrestling company is just dead and moldering. Merch sales suck, attendance sucks, Network paid subscriptions a million below where they say they want them to be, before coronavirus they were losing money on house shows and cancelling house shows left and right, no youth interest in the shows, terrible numbers in Canada and Europe, almost no 25-45 year interest in the shows, lost 60 percent of their 18-49 audience in the last 6 years, median age for WWE viewership creeping up towards 60, all time lows getting set on almost monthly basis for 2 years in total viewership, stale roster of people that have been involved with WWE for over a decade by now, sabotaged debuts, NXT call ups bombing left and right, aging roster being trotted out that is into its 40s and 50s now for their biggest shows.
The ONLY thing going well for WWE right now is revenue. Everything is in the TOILET.
 

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Ex Con With A Heart Of Gold
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In order of what I think is least likely to get cancelled to most

RAW: Huge upfront price tag of 265 million dollars, but its for 156 hours of content. That comes out a bit less than 1.7 million dollars an hour. Per hour, sitcom shows are much more expensive, big budget dramas and prestige programming even more. RAW is peanuts to air in comparison, fractions of new content potential replacement programming. Its also USA's flagship programming for decades. I don't see them getting cancelled but if they get renewed, how could it possibly be for more than what USA Network is paying now?
When USA Network signed that 5 year deal in 2018, RAW was getting around 3 million viewers a show. We don't know what viewership will be like in 2023, but lets do some hypothetical math here...

Crowds come back, and its a boost to RAW viewership, lets say 25 percent from where they are now and brings them to 2 million viewers. But they suffer 3 years of overall decline in viewership of 10 percent on average in 2021, 2022 and 2023.

2 million times .9=1.458 million viewers. Ouch. And totally reasonably to think the company is doing 1.5 million or worse for total viewership for RAW by 2023, don't think for one second that it isn't.

There's potential that USA would choose to not renew in 2023 if the numbers were there or worse, but I think...
RAW is not cancelled, USA offers to renew in 2023 for less money, and WWE has a HUGE decision to make.

NXT=Hundreds of thousands of viewers lower than what USA was airing before. Routinely out of of the top 20 in 18-49 demo, has been outside of the top 50 with 18-49 sometimes. This is not like RAW, a big time performer. This is arguably a fairly substantial underperformer. I would say so. But the saving grace is they are paying peanuts for it, something like 30 million dollars for 100 hours of live programming. That being said, USA has moved and cancelled WWE shows before. I think NXT might move nights and if it gets a long term deal known to the public, it won't be a 5 year deal.

Smackdown: Low total viewership, winning demos but not slam dunking them, about 1 million dollars an hour in cost, so super cheap. FOX is well known for moving shows in timeslot and cancelling them, even said to be trigger happy on that front. They've got no history with WWE either. If things get much worse, like consistent around or below 2 million with a trend looking south, FOX might reason it got sold a lemon and try to put it on FS1 or cancel it. This is the show I believe to be most likely moved or cancelled. WWE programming is THE Big Kahuna for USA, for FOX? Just Another Show.
 

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Even with Becky, they lost a million viewers in ONE year during her time as the top girl. She's the best "star" they made in the last 3 years and she couldn't stop the bleeding one iota. That shows there's a bigger problem than just star making, it means that whatever they've been doing lately, is happening in a vacuum. Why is this? Because consumers have just tuned out. It's kinda like the con man who suddenly goes straight for a year. They'll always be the con man in everyone else's eyes. One year of making a big star won't change anything at this point.
I see a lot of wrestlers get blamed for the tumble in ratings and for the most part that blame is unwarranted. The one exception to that is Becky. When they decided to build the brand around her from Dec ‘18 through the RTWM season we saw things with the ratings that we had never seen before. No big spike after the NFL season. No big spike around the RR. No big spike during WM season. The viewership stayed relatively flat which had never happened before. And that’s coming off the prior year where ratings actually increased YoY (which helped WWE secure those huge tv deals). It took bringing back Batista, Roman, and Cena coupled with pulling back on featuring Becky to bring a pulse back to the RTWM ratings. Now whether that blame should fall on Becky specifically or women’s wrestling in general is tough to say but that experiment was a major failure and it sped up their ratings decline by several years IMO.
 

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I see a lot of wrestlers get blamed for the tumble in ratings and for the most part that blame is unwarranted. The one exception to that is Becky. When they decided to build the brand around her from Dec ‘18 through the RTWM season we saw things with the ratings that we had never seen before. No big spike after the NFL season. No big spike around the RR. No big spike during WM season. The viewership stayed relatively flat which had never happened before. And that’s coming off the prior year where ratings actually increased YoY (which helped WWE secure those huge tv deals). It took bringing back Batista, Roman, and Cena coupled with pulling back on featuring Becky to bring a pulse back to the RTWM ratings. Now whether that blame should fall on Becky specifically or women’s wrestling in general is tough to say but that experiment was a major failure and it sped up their ratings decline by several years IMO.
Except to anyone with two brain cells and not a braindead hater, they would actually know for a fact that Becky IS not to blame.
When WWE did their controversial shit with Saudi Arabia, after Roman the FOTC was gone without a warning or putting anyone over, Becky was ON FUCKING SMACKOWN. Until the night AFTER Rumble, on RAW, which DID NOT have Becky advertised (she was for SD), and ratings tanked. Who is to blame?
Seth main evented the Rumble, he got a beatdown by BROCK LESNAR, to end the show.
But nah, let's blame that RAW rating on Becky for appearing 2 min unannounced to challenge Ronda.

The next 2 weeks were the only 2 weeks with focus on Becky, and yes ratings were down, but just like ALL the drops that started occuring within the year prior (from JULY 2018), they were at a higher rate than the year before. And imagine having only ONE storyline that ties up the show, and a storyline that people HATED that even Becky fans quit watching.

AND NO SHIT having only one match announced while they still didn't know what to do with the part-timers.
"They had to bring Cena and Roman and Batista" LMAO.
More like they were always featured into the but did it when they were available.

The most pathetic thing I've seen is blame 20 months of bad booking and downturn on Becky. THE LAST PERSON to score a segment over 2.1m views on RAW.
Immediately after she left, 200k stopped watching.
 

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Except to anyone with two brain cells and not a braindead hater, they would actually know for a fact that Becky IS not to blame.
When WWE did their controversial shit with Saudi Arabia, after Roman the FOTC was gone without a warning or putting anyone over, Becky was ON FUCKING SMACKOWN. Until the night AFTER Rumble, on RAW, which DID NOT have Becky advertised (she was for SD), and ratings tanked. Who is to blame?
Seth main evented the Rumble, he got a beatdown by BROCK LESNAR, to end the show.
But nah, let's blame that RAW rating on Becky for appearing 2 min unannounced to challenge Ronda.

The next 2 weeks were the only 2 weeks with focus on Becky, and yes ratings were down, but just like ALL the drops that started occuring within the year prior (from JULY 2018), they were at a higher rate than the year before. And imagine having only ONE storyline that ties up the show, and a storyline that people HATED that even Becky fans quit watching.

AND NO SHIT having only one match announced while they still didn't know what to do with the part-timers.
"They had to bring Cena and Roman and Batista" LMAO.
More like they were always featured into the but did it when they were available.

The most pathetic thing I've seen is blame 20 months of bad booking and downturn on Becky. THE LAST PERSON to score a segment over 2.1m views on RAW.
Immediately after she left, 200k stopped watching.
It would be great it posters like you could acknowledge that a number of the pre-existing fanbase, of wrestling i might add, simulated fighting, have no interest in the show being dominated by 5"2 non threatening women.

This isn't Love Island or Big Brother or a traditional soap opera, this is wrestling.

To go from Rock and Austin to Becky Lynch is a pretty deep dive, in fact it's like watching a completely different genre, yet you can't seem to understand why people would have no interest in her or any of the women dominating the shows and main eventing ppvs.
 

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It would be great it posters like you could acknowledge that a number of the pre-existing fanbase, of wrestling i might add, simulated fighting, have no interest in the show being dominated by 5"2 non threatening women.

This isn't Love Island or Big Brother or a traditional soap opera, this is wrestling.

To go from Rock and Austin to Becky Lynch is a pretty deep dive, in fact it's like watching a completely different genre, yet you can't seem to understand why people would have no interest in her or any of the women dominating the shows and main eventing ppvs.
I've never denied this. I know a lot of people who were conditioned to see women a joke were never going to take women wrestling seriously so they would tune out. The difference is that Becky's retention rate was good, considering she was one of the tops draws on the show male or female, and during that time they were doing 2 things: building her up (6 months before she was literally a nobody) and actually not giving her a good story, just a push and spotlight but not the story her fans wanted to see (just as a small sample, many diehard Becky fans here stopped watching after Charlotte was inserted in the 3-way).

There is also the difference that despite what you or anyone else thinks, WWE wanted to push the women, no matter what. There is clearly a % of young female demo that want to see good women wrestling too that they're buildinng up.
And fact is, if the women were and are now drawing better than their counterparts, why shouldn't they be pushed more?
Shouldn't there be automatically more viewers for any male segment if we take into account what u are saying?
 

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I've never denied this. I know a lot of people who were conditioned to see women a joke were never going to take women wrestling seriously so they would tune out. The difference is that Becky's retention rate was good, considering she was one of the tops draws on the show male or female, and during that time they were doing 2 things: building her up (6 months before she was literally a nobody) and actually not giving her a good story, just a push and spotlight but not the story her fans wanted to see (just as a small sample, many diehard Becky fans here stopped watching after Charlotte was inserted in the 3-way).

There is also the difference that despite what you or anyone else thinks, WWE wanted to push the women, no matter what. There is clearly a % of young female demo that want to see good women wrestling too that they're buildinng up.
And fact is, if the women were and are now drawing better than their counterparts, why shouldn't they be pushed more?
Shouldn't there be automatically more viewers for any male segment if we take into account what u are saying?
The male viewers have given up completely. It's not a case of "oh here is Bayley, I am going to switch off until Rey Mysterio appears". They have just given up.

6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range demo watched Raw the other week throughout the entire US. 6000

Of course its not just the women. The men are booked horribly and the entire show is stale and boring, I just feel that womens wrestling appeals to a very niche audience.

All thats left is fans of womens wrestling. No one in their right mind is going to sit through three hours of raw flipping in and out hoping to catch a glimpse of Seth and Drew and changing the channel when Sasha is on.

Most of the topics here are about the women. Most everybody else has disappeared and it reflects in the ratings.

It's not politically correct to say this and you get accused of being misogynistic but it's a fact.

Wrestling is Hogan vs Warrior, Cena vs Orton, Rock vs Austin

Masculine dudes simulating fighting.

It never has been Sensational Sherri vs Sapphire, Lita vs Trish or Sasha vs Asuka
 

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The male viewers have given up completely. It's not a case of "oh here is Bayley, I am going to switch off until Rey Mysterio appears". They have just given up.

6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range demo watched Raw the other week throughout the entire US. 6000

Of course its not just the women. The men are booked horribly and the entire show is stale and boring, I just feel that womens wrestling appeals to a very niche audience.

All thats left is fans of womens wrestling. No one in their right mind is going to sit through three hours of raw flipping in and out hoping to catch a glimpse of Seth and Drew and changing the channel when Sasha is on.

Most of the topics here are about the women. Most everybody else has disappeared and it reflects in the ratings.

It's not politically correct to say this and you get accused of being misogynistic but it's a fact.

Wrestling is Hogan vs Warrior, Cena vs Orton, Rock vs Austin

Masculine dudes simulating fighting.

It never has been Sensational Sherri vs Sapphire, Lita vs Trish or Sasha vs Asuka
Dude FFS take a look at trends.
What you are saying is all assumptions and you have no data to back it up.

What I know for certain is:

  • WWE's ratings have been declining mostly for 20 years
  • a bigger year on year drop started becoming a trend in 2014.
  • After WM 31, RAW ratings were still declining at a big rate
  • Women's evolution started in july 2015, when the ratings have been going down a higher rate than average for a year now, and that was maintained until July 2018 when another higher than average drop started happening. The last higher than average decline was due to the pandemic.
I fail to see how at any point the women getting more focused was the downfall of ratings. You keep telling yourself that because you just want to hate on the talent or you do not want to shit on WWE, but fact is, if you take the drop they had from july 2014 to july 2015, no women's revolution shit, and do the same % decrease year on year to now, accounting for the pandemic effect... The ratings won't be much different.
 

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Wow, they finally had an hour dip below 1.5 million and a .41 demo which is godawful for WWE. The first two hours held well but both sub 1.7 million. Will sports cause Hour 1 and 2 to follow Hour 3's lead? Stay tuned.
 

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I and other people thought hockey and baseball being back would murder Smackdown. I said, 5 hockey games and 11 baseball games, Smackdown will get murdered. Nope. Not so fast. Smackdown actually slightly increased in total viewership last week. The impact of sports on wrestling will be less because there's fewer total people and far fewer casual people. Now, if it were like 6 or 7 years ago and there's 4 or 5 million total viewers of a RAW and there's opening day basketball or a good Monday Night Football game or hockey playoffs like Stanley Cup or something like that, RAW took hit. But when there's 1.7 million people left? Its not going to be that big of a hit. There's not much to lose and the overwhelming majority of watchers are smarks and hardcores and lifers in their 30s, 40s,50s,60s+ who have been watching pro wrestling forever as their major, possibly even sole form, of television entertainment.
 
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