Wrestling Forum banner

5841 - 5860 of 6399 Posts

·
Lifting weights and eating steaks
Joined
·
17,929 Posts
Well, for me, WWF/E has never been a hope for good professional wrestling. I have hated their shows for as long as I can remember. I am not going to revert back to studio shows, so NWA is out for me. I have no clue about MLW, and I am casual enough that I don’t want to go out of my way to find how to watch DAZN or whatever channel it is. Same reason I never watched ROH.

I am the odd diehard/casual hybrid. I am a casual wrestling fan, and an AEW diehard. It isn’t that we don’t think AEW is never good. In fact, I have said many times their show up until the pandemic hit, was on point and provided me with Nitro-level nostalgia. A few episodes were great, but for the most part, I loved the shows.

When the pandemic hit, it is like they have used it as an excuse to halfass things. I know it isn’t very likely that I will ever get a chance at another wrestling company on as large a scale, so where they are hiding behind the pandemic, scared to give away angles and great television without crowds, I think the time to jump would be NOW when WWE is floundering with their weak ass shows lacking crowds to hide the lack of substance.

It kills me thinking of the missed opportunities.
You remind me of my brother, as casual as they come, except even more so as he doesn't come on forums.

He hadn't watched wrestling since the fad died nearly 20 years ago, told him to watch DON with me last year and he loved it. Has since watched every one or their shows. Likes certain things, dislikes certain things.

MLW is on YouTube, you should check them out. I feel like it'd probably be more up your street.
 

·
Lifting weights and eating steaks
Joined
·
17,929 Posts
Legit, take Vince by his balls and lead him to the battlefield level competition.
What made you think AEW would be that?

And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
You remind me of my brother, as casual as they come, except even more so as he doesn't come on forums.

He hadn't watched wrestling since the fad died nearly 20 years ago, told him to watch DON with me last year and he loved it. Has since watched every one or their shows. Likes certain things, dislikes certain things.

MLW is on YouTube, you should check them out. I feel like it'd probably be more up your street.
Well, I have a hard time buying that MLW’s in-ring action is going to top AEW’s, which is what I enjoy most.

I didn’t become a Kenny Omega fan based on promos. Lmao
 

·
Lifting weights and eating steaks
Joined
·
17,929 Posts
Well, I have a hard time buying that MLW’s in-ring action is going to top AEW’s, which is what I enjoy most.

I didn’t become a Kenny Omega fan based on promos. Lmao
There have been some excellent matches in MLW - if you're in the game for watching wrestling matches to see what something is all about:

Pentagon vs. LA Park
Lucha Bros vs. Los Parks
Low Ki vs. Fenix

Are 3 that I can recommend you just because you've heard of Fenix and Pentagon.

Honestly, just watch 1 episode of MLW Fusion - it's an hour on YouTube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,513 Posts
What made you think AEW would be that?

And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?
This is a problem

half here want AEW to be something to ‘force WWE to be better’

and the other half are just ‘fans of AEW’

the endgame is not the same in both those camps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
Okay, but the idea I get is that to most of you on here think AEW isn't good wrestling for the most part. Just have hopes for it to be.

So why are they "our" only hope?

Theres 4 wrestling shows on a week, two of which have proven history of being good wrestling in the past - why aren't they a choice with hope?

Aswell as multiple other promotions across other platforms, some of which are good (NWA and MLW).

Everything about pro wrestling is subjective.
Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.

But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.

No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.
 

·
Lifting weights and eating steaks
Joined
·
17,929 Posts
Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.

But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.

No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.
So they're not "our" only hope then. Got ya.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
What made you think AEW would be that?

And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?
I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that.

It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!

And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.

They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.

They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.

AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?

Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.


What the fuck happened to that? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.

AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.
 

·
THE MAN has come around to collect her debts.
Joined
·
8,910 Posts
Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.

But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.

No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.
Lol they push Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy, 2 guys you don’t like but some others do, and draw a low 550K rating for ONE segment, for ONE week, after the show started at 700k+, and all of a sudden their a “flop” and dead like they can’t bounce back 1 or 2 weeks later. Calm down my guy. This just means that they need to pivot, which of course they will do.
 

·
THE MAN has come around to collect her debts.
Joined
·
8,910 Posts
I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that.

It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!

And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.

They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.

They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.

AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?

Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.


What the fuck happened to that? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.

AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.
I don’t know, maybe it was....no crowd shows during a pandemic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,753 Posts
Bah gawd the WWE fans are flicking their bean senseless over last weeks viewing figures aren't they?
Goes both ways..


the do have the most tools in their toolbox + the most money to engineer a comeback

so, you’re right - a strong WWE means a strong wrestling landscape
Does it though.

WWE were super strong in 88-89 yet everyone else was falling off in popularity big time.

WWE was nuclear hot in 99-2000 and WCW were falling off a cliff popularity wise and ECW was no longer as popular.

The mini boom of 2006-09 in WWE did see a spike for other companies and many in Europe made a quick buck running ex WWE guys but there is no proof a hot wwe will see all boats rise. It's possible but not 100% guaranteed.

Even then not sure why people long for a boom. Next boom might be all old women watching, it might be all kids under 10. Just because last one was teen males doesn't mean the next one will appeal to anyone in IWC demographic.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,980 Posts
Goes both ways..



Does it though.

WWE were super strong in 88-89 yet everyone else was falling off in popularity big time.

WWE was nuclear hot in 99-2000 and WCW were falling off a cliff popularity wise and ECW was no longer as popular.

The mini boom of 2006-09 in WWE did see a spike for other companies and many in Europe made a quick buck running ex WWE guys but there is no proof a hot wwe will see all boats rise. It's possible but not 100% guaranteed.

Even then not sure why people long for a boom. Next boom might be all old women watching, it might be all kids under 10. Just because last one was teen males doesn't mean the next one will appeal to anyone in IWC demographic.
WWE have had a monopoly over pro-wrestling since 2001. When casuals think pro-wrestling, they think WWE. I can't imagine that another company will come along and overtake WWE.
 

·
Lifting weights and eating steaks
Joined
·
17,929 Posts
I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that.

It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!

And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.

They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.

They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.

AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?

Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.


What the fuck happened to that? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.

AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.
Thank you for your response - it's a great post.

I'm glad you agree with me on Dynamite being excellent in January and February - I thought the run of shows they had in the build to 'Revolution' were the best wrestling TV of the year and considering all we're going to get now is audience-less shows, it will probably stay at that.

I genuinely think if COVID doesn't happen - they trend upwards. They were hitting such consistency with their shows, stories and talent.

"What the fuck happened to that?"

The pandemic, in my view. It's not a coincidence that pre-pandemic was what you describe. Stacked cards, great matches, no segments that made you want to turn over and a very prominent part of their show, a hot crowd that YOU yourself were involved in. Post-pandemic? Weaker cards, more squash matches, much more filler segments and no hot crowd to make raise segments.

Now, if the crowds come back and the current format sticks around and is what they deliver, then I'll rethink my stance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,270 Posts
This is a problem

half here want AEW to be something to ‘force WWE to be better’

and the other half are just ‘fans of AEW’

the endgame is not the same in both those camps
Half here want what they were promised by AEW, dirt sheet writers, wrestlers and the AEW super fans.

The other half have given up on it ever challenging anyone like WWE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,581 Posts
Personaly i don't care about AEW forcing the WWE to do this or that....

I watch AEW because i like the majority of what i'm seeing.
I'm the same way. I don't give a damn about WWE being better. They're never going to GET better. Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. I'm all about watching wrestling and wrestlers I like/Care about and IMO that's what everyone should be doing honestly.

And honestly..I don't get the mindset of "Making WWE Better" That to me says that it's not about AEW or really getting behind something you like. At the end of the day they just want a better WWE and that probably entails the product that they grew up with. At the end of the day it's all about WWE and that's sad to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
I'm the same way. I don't give a damn about WWE being better. They're never going to GET better. Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. I'm all about watching wrestling and wrestlers I like/Care about and IMO that's what everyone should be doing honestly.

And honestly..I don't get the mindset of "Making WWE Better" That to me says that it's not about AEW or really getting behind something you like. At the end of the day they just want a better WWE and that probably entails the product that they grew up with. At the end of the day it's all about WWE and that's sad to me.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with WWE. I’ll walk away again hoping to live long enough to see aanother billionaire try his hand in wrestling.

Likely won’t see it, but I’ll enjoy life waiting more than I would enjoy watching a stupid fucking Vince McMahon product.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,581 Posts
I can assure you it has nothing to do with WWE. I’ll walk away again hoping to live long enough to see aanother billionaire try his hand in wrestling.

Likely won’t see it, but I’ll enjoy life waiting more than I would enjoy watching a stupid fucking Vince McMahon product.
Well that's great to hear on your part.

Me personally I'm not the type to sit and wait for someone with money to get into wrestling as I could be waiting forever for that shit to happen. I'ma enjoy what's out there already. It's not like wresting is inaccessible.

And just so you know I'm not taking a dig at you. I'm just saying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
Well that's great to hear on your part.

Me personally I'm not the type to sit and wait for someone with money to get into wrestling as I could be waiting forever for that shit to happen. I'ma enjoy what's out there already. It's not like wresting is inaccessible.

And just so you know I'm not taking a dig at you. I'm just saying.
I just don’t need wrestling for wrestling’s sake. I watched WCW, because it was good. I didn’t watch Raw, because it was shit when it was Austin smacking McMahon with a bed pan (who the fuck lets Stone Cold dress up as a goddamn doctor!?) and is still shit today when I’ve turned it on at various points over the last 2 decades.

I have tried to get into Powerrr, but it is way too low-budget for my liking. Studio wrestling can’t exist in 2020, at least not for my liking.

So yeah, I don’t need wrestling. I have plenty of other hobbies and a career I can always focus on more. Possible career change in the next 5 years due to an early retirement.

Wrestling needs to be must-see TV for me to stick around.
 
5841 - 5860 of 6399 Posts
Top