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Spanish God
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Just comes down to it feeling really convenient that he says that AEW and NXT do so well on DVR yet AEW has only made one appearance on the DVR ratings rankings. It's easier to just trust it when there's no evidence released to dispute him with.
And I think we had a good discussion about that in the old thread, that's really the sticking point, him saying its one of the best performing shows on cable is probably overstated, but with that kind of stuff, it is a matter of opinion. These charts are for cable and broadcast, maybe they do well compared to cable, maybe his definition of doing well would be different from me and you. that's why I am not defending his opinions, just the numbers, and if you look at the numbers then they wouldn't show up in these charts according to what he is reporting.
 

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And I think we had a good discussion about that in the old thread, that's really the sticking point, him saying its one of the best performing shows on cable is probably overstated, but with that kind of stuff, it is a matter of opinion. These charts are for cable and broadcast, maybe they do well compared to cable, maybe his definition of doing well would be different from me and you. that's why I am not defending his opinions, just the numbers, and if you look at the numbers then they wouldn't show up in these charts according to what he is reporting.
Yeah we did, I just think that's always going to be a sticking point because of the weirdness of the situation.
 

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Sold so many tix to the Christmas show that they had to get rid of the camera side and take the cameras out so they couldn’t televise it!
To continue my discussion with imjustagame or whoever that poster is re: AEW's PPV buys.

Those buys are conflated numbers provided by Dave Meltzer. He combines the international numbers with the domestic ones. AEW seems to get ~60k buys domestically. Over half ECW's PPVs were doing better numbers than that, and by the end they were consistently getting about 99k buys domestically. The idea that they are the hottest thing since WCW is a myth.

And no, those numbers aren't bad. But you're insane if you get data like that back and don't act on it. By data I mean things Meltzer purposely glosses over when talking about their success. For example, Meltzer said that about 40% of the people who ordered All Out were return customers from Double or Nothing. He also said that the number was down for All Out. When you factor that 40% in to the difference between Double or Nothing and All Out's buy-rate, I think the number was something like a 30% retention rate.

So you can dance about selling a few PPVs. But you have to think about why two-thirds of a paying audience doesn't come back. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like the content. It could just be the pricing of the shows. But it could be content. And when you've got Meltzer talking about their staying power on PPV, you've got to consider that most people who gave Double or Nothing a chance didn't come back, and that Full Gear was their first PPV experience offered to people they were reaching through television. Given a reasonable estimate of a PPV audience for a wrestling product seems to be about 5%, those TV ratings going down aren't a great sign either. With 700k viewers, they're looking at about ~35k buys domestically. If you're looking at splitting that money with Warner and the PPV companies, you're looking at a max of $875k off a show for AEW. Sure, there is also attendance and merchandising, but that's about the cost to put something on. Not sure if Warner covers the production costs of their PPVs or just the TV, but if Warner and PPV are split, which seems to be the case, then you're really looking at $437.5k for Warner at the end of the day, which probably means they're underperforming.

Call it spin all you want, but we'll see how Revolution does, hey? And then we've got Double or Nothing II, and then we'll have some year-to-year data to look at, and we can see whether or not AEW has grown its audience or not. It'll be very interesting if when the data comes back, it's 35k in 2020 compared to 71k in 2019. The spin will be in making that transformation look good.
To me the biggest flaw in the AEW model is being PPV-reliant. It’s a dying model for boxing, wrestling, MMA ... you name it. Maybe even a dead model unless you’ve got a major event like Mayweather-McGregor.

I can’t buy that a select group of wrestling fans, all of whom support AEW, happen to be the only people in the U.S. (or world) who prefer paying $50 four times a year to get their product that way. The numbers will surely only go down over time.
 

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Sold so many tix to the Christmas show that they had to get rid of the camera side and take the cameras out so they couldn’t televise it!


To me the biggest flaw in the AEW model is being PPV-reliant. It’s a dying model for boxing, wrestling, MMA ... you name it. Maybe even a dead model unless you’ve got a major event like Mayweather-McGregor.

I can’t buy that a select group of wrestling fans, all of whom support AEW, happen to be the only people in the U.S. (or world) who prefer paying $50 four times a year to get their product that way. The numbers will surely only go down over time.
Since the first 2 shows they never sold the hard cam side.
 

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I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats.

There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:

1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.

As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.

Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.

They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.
 

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Since the first 2 shows they never sold the hard cam side.
It was a joke. They weren’t on TV for Christmas.

I was at the Nashville show and there were a few scattered people on the hard cam side and the upper deck (of a fairly small arena) was tarped off.

It was still a hot crowd, but not a large one.

And one thing I noticed (I realize small sample judging by one show but you can see it on TV too) is the live audience as compared to WWE was younger (mostly people in their 20s), a few more females (guys bringing their gfs mostly from the look of it) and NOT diverse ... I’d say way above 90 percent white. I didn’t see a single kid either.

The WWE Raw a month later (in Bridgestone, much larger arena) had a lot more people of color, a lot more families with children, just more representative of the populace. AEW was more like a crowd of gamers who are into NASCAR by their demo.
 

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It was a joke. They weren’t on TV for Christmas.

I was at the Nashville show and there were a few scattered people on the hard cam side and the upper deck (of a fairly small arena) was tarped off.

It was still a hot crowd, but not a large one.

And one thing I noticed (I realize small sample judging by one show but you can see it on TV too) is the live audience as compared to WWE was younger (mostly people in their 20s), a few more females (guys bringing their gfs mostly from the look of it) and NOT diverse ... I’d say way above 90 percent white. I didn’t see a single kid either.

The WWE Raw a month later (in Bridgestone, much larger arena) had a lot more people of color, a lot more families with children, just more representative of the populace. AEW was more like a crowd of gamers who are into NASCAR by their demo.
Ok so wouldn't they have been better off at Allen Arena and it being PACKED? Have you ever seen WWE/TNA/ROH come to Allen Arena?
 

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I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats.

There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:

1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.

As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.

Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.

They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.
There are doing 5-4k arenas in the coming weeks but they are far from a sell out.
 

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Wow. I figured it was basically impossible for them to draw that low.
For exemple in Huntsville for the moment the audience is a bit more than 1.5K

Now i think they're not doing a good enough job to promote their shows. I mean if you don't follow them on twitter then most of the time you can't know where they are doing shows.
 

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It was always a big gamble to run bigger arenas. As the product cooled, so was the perception of you being a hot ticket item when you have to start tarping off, etc. No, I'm not saying that these shows aren't profitable or anything -- I'm merely talking perception and the idea that this thing is going to get bigger with people. It's probably better to sell out whatever arena you are in, because that's what people care about, but you also don't want to scale down your presentation on TV, because it looks like you're receding.

Got a feeling AEW will win in the ratings this week with NXT doing a clip show. If they don't, I think they will start to panic. Not big time -- you'll hear the usual lines about how they don't care about the ratings -- but it will be make a few people gulp if they can't beat a clip show.
 

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Spanish God
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I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats.

There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:

1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.

As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.

Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.

They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.
Those smaller arenas might not have the capability to host a national TV show, either to fit the stage and everything needed for production, not to mention having suitable infrastructure to handle the intense electricity needs. It's likely the same as the reason why wwe doesn't run smaller places even with dwindling attendance, the smaller places just can't support a high production show for whatever reason. Some can and they run those places, but I would guess a lot of the smaller places are older and just can't accommodate what these two touring tv shows need to broadcast a live national telecast.
 

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Those smaller arenas might not have the capability to host a national TV show, either to fit the stage and everything needed for production, not to mention having suitable infrastructure to handle the intense electricity needs. It's likely the same as the reason why wwe doesn't run smaller places even with dwindling attendance, the smaller places just can't support a high production show for whatever reason. Some can and they run those places, but I would guess a lot of the smaller places are older and just can't accommodate what these two touring tv shows need to broadcast a live national telecast.
Great reply, I hope that they figure it out. I imagine they would have, at minimum, the same ratings on Friday as they do Wednesday but moving to Fridays would really help with their attendance and, four times a year, they could stack Friday/Saturday, Dynamite/PPVs.
 

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Hi everyone,

I don't know why but I have a feeling that tonight's Dynamite will not only be the highest rated Dynamite of the year, but of the whole decade also.
You really think they’ll last the decade? High hopes man.

I reckon they’ll shut up after tonight. Let’s be real about it. We got midgets all over the show. Ricoch...Musta....uh
 
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