Wrestling Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
81 - 100 of 107 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
Discussion Starter #84
Matt Hardy wont be putting anyone over if he loses to Santana in a throwaway match at a random Dynamite. Thats like Jericho losing to Fandango.

You have to build a feud and then give the deserving young talent a proper win to put him over. Sammy G was clearly the pick before he got suspended. Losing to Sammy is fine, dont expect anyone with any name value to be a punching bag to every random Joe.

WWE did nothing with Revival yet offered them big money contracts to stay. Goes on to show you their worth. Just because Vince doesnt see any star quality in them and doesnt push them like stars, it doesnt mean they cant be stars.

NXT Revival were one of their best things on the show, both in promos and in matches. I think its safe to say they were one of the stars of their shows when they were on it.
He shouldn't beating him at all though thats the thing he should be putting over younger guys.

He was jobbed out to Hardy before the suspension which is the problem.

WWE did nothing with them thats why they went to AEW to be used more.

They're not and has never been stars and NXT is a developmental so everything they do there is to prepare them for Raw and Smackdown.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,035 Posts
He shouldn't beating him at all though thats the thing he should be putting over younger guys.

He was jobbed out to Hardy before the suspension which is the problem.

WWE did nothing with them thats why they went to AEW to be used more.

They're not and has never been stars and NXT is a developmental so everything they do there is to prepare them for Raw and Smackdown.
Being a younger talent doesn't necessarily mean all of them are deserving of a win against an established name.

WWE knew their worth and chose not do to anything with them because Vince.

And they proved they were more than ready to be stars on their main shows but WWE chose not to do so because Vince. One man's perspective doesnt decide on what a star is and isnt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
Discussion Starter #86
Being a younger talent doesn't necessarily mean all of them are deserving of a win against an established name.

WWE knew their worth and chose not do to anything with them because Vince.

And they proved they were more than ready to be stars on their main shows but WWE chose not to do so because Vince. One man's perspective doesnt decide on what a star is and isnt.
Thats how it goes in wrestling the younger guy beats the old guy and the younger guy goes on to bigger and better things.

I conceded that WWE did nothing with them and they haven't proven to be stars they're just in an angle with 2 EVPs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,761 Posts
Revival were excellent in NXT but haven't impressed since then. Numerous long term injuries will do that coupled with fact that DIY and American Alpha were world class teams and a broom could have great matches with them. Dawson now looks like he is putting on serious weight too and moving around at 1/4 pace.

Never impressed with Gallows and Anderson so not a big loss.

Rusev has many flaws but boring certainly isn't one of them. Can't believe someone said that about him lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,035 Posts
Thats how it goes in wrestling the younger guy beats the old guy and the younger guy goes on to bigger and better things.

I conceded that WWE did nothing with them and they haven't proven to be stars they're just in an angle with 2 EVPs.
You are not wrong but you have it super simplified. Its not that simple. Austin walked out when Vince told him he would lose to Brock on Raw. He walked out because thats not how you put over younger guy, thats how you devalue your older star. It has to be done right ala Rock/Hogan. A Proper feud, a good match build, a good match with the right decision and most importantly, the right guy for the rub. Lesnar was the right guy but nothing else was done right.

I think we are running in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree. I am tired of paraphrasing the same thing over and over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,605 Posts
Archer has been a waste for sure. I agree with you there.
But you gotta think - they have MJF, Adam Page, Brian Cage, Luchasaurus, Jungleboy, Scorpio Sky, Sammy Guevara. There is your future top talent of AEW right there. And apart from Luchasaurus, I cannot say that any of these guys have been booked badly at all.
Optikk, all of those guys are being used horribly except Adam Page. Cage is about to put Moxley over, Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy are deep in the midcard, I don't even recall the last time we saw Scorpio Sky on TV and Sammy Guevara is a comedy goof. MJF is someone they clearly think highly of but even he is now deep in the midcard in minimal build PPV matches.

People seem to think MJF being undefeated is a big push but he's beating guys like Billy Gunn and Marko Stunt to pad that record. He hasn't had a big win since Cody.

As for Miro, he wouldn’t change life for AEW, but he’d he a good get for the mid card and perhaps the main event scene. Though again, I feel like AEW has enough names in that mix at the moment. And when the world allows it, I really want to see Miro in NJPW.
Rusev would be a good get for the AEW midcard and maybe the main event scene? So Orange Cassidy is more than welcome to be a main event star on TV but Rusev is only a "perhaps"?

Bringing in WWE released talent isnt an issue for me. Bringing in just about anybody and pushing them ahead of homegrown talent is. Thats what TNA used to do all the time. AEW hasn't done that. Both Jericho and Moxley are stars just like Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy and Christian were in 2009 for TNA.

AEW brings in guys they will fit in and have something to do with them. Its not blindly signing anything that says "Ex-WWE" and treating them better than your homegrown talent.
I have to disagree. Cody is pretty much a Jeff Jarrett having been a guy who was midcard in WWE, went and became a main event guy in a smaller company and then became a main event guy in his own company.

Jericho isn't really like an Angle, Hardy or Christian. All of those guys were in their prime when they signed with TNA (Kurt Angle was the oldest at 38 years old) or just out of their primes whilst Jericho is easily 10 years past his prime. Jericho is most comparable to Sting if we're going off TNA and Moxley is Christian.

AEW certainly do not bring in guys that will fit in and they do indeed blindly sign ex WWE guys. The absolute perfect example is Brodie Lee who was signed because he had a lot of hype and was held down by the WWE (And was quite vocal about it) only for him to come in, put Moxley over and now he's booked in a random filler six man tag on the FyterFest card. Jake Hager is another great example of a guy who has come in as ex WWE star but AEW has had no idea how to use them and have just shoehorned him into an angle because he was in WWE.

I don't recall any AEW homegrowns really ever consistently beating the ex WWE guys either. MJF got the big win over Cody and that's it really, Jungle Boy has never beaten any WWE guys if I recall correctly, Sammy jobs to Hardy, Santana jobs to Hardy, Cage is about to lose to Mox...

Haha so now Gallows and Anderson suck? Sure are a lot more entertaining than the revival that AEW just signed.
That is how it is here. If they don't sign with AEW then they suck and if they do sign with AEW they're suddenly much better than what they were previously. People in the Tessa Blanchard thread are legitimately saying she sucks whilst people in this thread are saying CM Punk sucks. It's wacky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
Discussion Starter #90
You are not wrong but you have it super simplified. Its not that simple. Austin walked out when Vince told him he would lose to Brock on Raw. He walked out because thats not how you put over younger guy, thats how you devalue your older star. It has to be done right ala Rock/Hogan. A Proper feud, a good match build, a good match with the right decision and most importantly, the right guy for the rub. Lesnar was the right guy but nothing else was done right.

I think we are running in circles here. Lets just agree to disagree. I am tired of paraphrasing the same thing over and over.
Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara had no build so it made no sense to have Hardy beat Geuvara especially since Hardy should be putting him over.

Ok I disagree with your assessment but I respect your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,035 Posts
I have to disagree. Cody is pretty much a Jeff Jarrett having been a guy who was midcard in WWE, went and became a main event guy in a smaller company and then became a main event guy in his own company.

Jericho isn't really like an Angle, Hardy or Christian. All of those guys were in their prime when they signed with TNA (Kurt Angle was the oldest at 38 years old) or just out of their primes whilst Jericho is easily 10 years past his prime. Jericho is most comparable to Sting if we're going off TNA and Moxley is Christian.

AEW certainly do not bring in guys that will fit in and they do indeed blindly sign ex WWE guys. The absolute perfect example is Brodie Lee who was signed because he had a lot of hype and was held down by the WWE (And was quite vocal about it) only for him to come in, put Moxley over and now he's booked in a random filler six man tag on the FyterFest card. Jake Hager is another great example of a guy who has come in as ex WWE star but AEW has had no idea how to use them and have just shoehorned him into an angle because he was in WWE.

I don't recall any AEW homegrowns really ever consistently beating the ex WWE guys either. MJF got the big win over Cody and that's it really, Jungle Boy has never beaten any WWE guys if I recall correctly, Sammy jobs to Hardy, Santana jobs to Hardy, Cage is about to lose to Mox...
Cody is not the world champion. He has not mainevented one PPV yet, sure he has closed some Dynamite episodes but so have many other talent. Cody has not been in the mainevent like JJ by any stretch of imagination. He lost his feud to MJF, making him look great in the process at his own expense in the entire build. I dont remember Jeff Jarrett doing that for AJ Styles.

Brodie was brought in to lead the Dark Order, didnt work out too well but they had plans for him. Jericho asked for Hager personally and was the one to strike a deal between Hager and AEW because he wanted a big mute muscle for his gang and no other big guys were available at the moment.

They are not even 1 year old on the TV yet, give it some time. It takes much longer than a year to establish homegrown talents for a newly start up company. So far they have done a good job of finding and pushing the right amount to the right guys in my opinion. I never agreed with WWE's strapping a rocket to the ass to send them to moon in a month thing.

Everyone wants MJF to be the champion right now, he will be exposed and will fail if he became the champion so early and everyone who wanted him up there will be the first ones to spit fire at him. I think they should take their time and build their stars right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,605 Posts
Cody is not the world champion. He has not mainevented one PPV yet, sure he has closed some Dynamite episodes but so have many other talent. Cody has not been in the mainevent like JJ by any stretch of imagination. He lost his feud to MJF, making him look great in the process at his own expense in the entire build. I dont remember Jeff Jarrett doing that for AJ Styles.

Brodie was brought in to lead the Dark Order, didnt work out too well but they had plans for him. Jericho asked for Hager personally and was the one to strike a deal between Hager and AEW because he wanted a big mute muscle for his gang and no other big guys were available at the moment.

They are not even 1 year old on the TV yet, give it some time. It takes much longer than a year to establish homegrown talents for a newly start up company. So far they have done a good job of finding and pushing the right amount to the right guys in my opinion. I never agreed with WWE's strapping a rocket to the ass to send them to moon in a month thing.

Everyone wants MJF to be the champion right now, he will be exposed and will fail if he became the champion so early and everyone who wanted him up there will be the first ones to spit fire at him. I think they should take their time and build their stars right.
Nah Cody is not the World Champion but it's certainly the Cody and friends show most weeks. This past episode he had a big press conference dedicated to him whilst Moxley was arranged to simply squash a job guy. Cody gets the pyro, the exciting big matches, will cosplay as a Horseman, overcome an MMA fighter, have the hot wife, cut the passionate promos etc. Lets be real, nobody gets the same treatment Cody does and he really is kind of the star of the show without holding the World Title.

As for Jeff Jarrett he used to put a heap of guys over. It's funny you mention AJ Styles because Jarrett put him over twice for the NWA World Heavyweight Title and made him a main event star in TNA. One was a cage match and the other was a PPV main event where AJ won clean with the Spiral Tap.

Brodie was the back up plan for The Dark Order. It was meant to be Marty Scurll allegedly but when they couldn't get him they gave it to Brodie because they had him and needed someone to do it. I'm aware Jericho asked for Hager as a big mute muscle but you legitimately could get any big man guy from the indies to do that. They picked Hager so they could have a "Lex Luger moment" on their first Dynamite episode.

I know it takes a while to establish a group of new stars but I don't think it's too much to ask for one or two to clearly be moving their way up the ranks of AEW giving us something to look forward to. They're all kind of stuck though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,035 Posts
Nah Cody is not the World Champion but it's certainly the Cody and friends show most weeks. This past episode he had a big press conference dedicated to him whilst Moxley was arranged to simply squash a job guy. Cody gets the pyro, the exciting big matches, will cosplay as a Horseman, overcome an MMA fighter, have the hot wife, cut the passionate promos etc. Lets be real, nobody gets the same treatment Cody does and he really is kind of the star of the show without holding the World Title.

As for Jeff Jarrett he used to put a heap of guys over. It's funny you mention AJ Styles because Jarrett put him over twice for the NWA World Heavyweight Title and made him a main event star in TNA. One was a cage match and the other was a PPV main event where AJ won clean with the Spiral Tap.

Brodie was the back up plan for The Dark Order. It was meant to be Marty Scurll allegedly but when they couldn't get him they gave it to Brodie because they had him and needed someone to do it. I'm aware Jericho asked for Hager as a big mute muscle but you legitimately could get any big man guy from the indies to do that. They picked Hager so they could have a "Lex Luger moment" on their first Dynamite episode.

I know it takes a while to establish a group of new stars but I don't think it's too much to ask for one or two to clearly be moving their way up the ranks of AEW giving us something to look forward to. They're all kind of stuck though.
Cody gets as much time as everyone else. His segments are more memorable than others, that shows that he is that good. He cuts good promos that I am sure he comes up with, He has a hot wife because he's smart. Without being a world champion once or the mainevent once if Cody comes across as a big star, it goes on to show he is actually that good. How is that bad, its not like he is doing all of that at someone else's expense.

I see, I might have missed AJ/Jarrett stuff. All I remember from early TNA days is Jeff Jarrett cutting long promos and winning every match and always carried that NWA world title. I started watching more regularly after Sting and Kurt joined. Thanks for correcting me on that.

Yeah exactly, Brodie and Hager were brought in to do something, and they did it. I remember there were no big guys from indies that were available and Hager thing was to make some "Luger" impact ofcourse. Personally I think Brodie should have not been the part of DO but clearly both him and AEW wanted to give it a shot. Hager stuff suits him perfectly. So they weren't signed blindly. They fulfilled their purpose at the time.

Although I believe Brodie should now disband DO. But that doesnt mean he was just brought in because ex-WWE talent. Its because the guy is talented and can do well, and they had something in mind for him.. but just didnt work out all that well IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Thats not the case with everyone. AEW can't outbid for every talent and theres reports out there that Impact gave them lucrative deals, meaning gave them big money and Bryan Alvarez talked about that a few weeks ago. Impact likely outbid AEW for them just like ROH outbid AEW for Marty Scurll.
Overpayed more then outbid my point was more or less if they felt AEW absolutely needed them they'd be om the roster much like WWE they pay what they feel someone is worth.


Impact hopefully gets the most out of them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
Discussion Starter #95
Overpayed more then outbid my point was more or less if they felt AEW absolutely needed them they'd be om the roster much like WWE they pay what they feel someone is worth.


Impact hopefully gets the most out of them
Not really it depends on if Gallows and Anderson liked the AEW offers better than Impact's but other way they're getting paid so it doesn't matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,052 Posts
Not really it depends on if Gallows and Anderson liked the AEW offers better than Impact's but other way they're getting paid so it doesn't matter.
I wouldn't be surprised if Impact offered them the most money as free agents. Impact needs them more than AEW does right now because AEW's tag team division is stacked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,181 Posts
that was barely a feud my guy. i was in the same train of mind as you before; but you need to get out of a WWE-booking mind.
You said it is a different kind of heel, I just said MJF is just the same plain chickenshit heel like all the bad WWE ones. Thing is, he was a great heel at first, but like OC has become stale because he is doing the fucking same thing every time he is on tv. Funny how everyon said at the beginning he will revolutionize heel wrestling, but he is just bland and he has nothing to do than wrestle Billy Gun and maybe work with another young bland face in JB.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,033 Posts
You said it is a different kind of heel, I just said MJF is just the same plain chickenshit heel like all the bad WWE ones. Thing is, he was a great heel at first, but like OC has become stale because he is doing the fucking same thing every time he is on tv. Funny how everyon said at the beginning he will revolutionize heel wrestling, but he is just bland and he has nothing to do than wrestle Billy Gun and maybe work with another young bland face in JB.
name a well-booked chickenshit heel in wwe. you can't. my argument was that MJF was well-booked; not that he was a chickenshit heel or not.

MJF is well-protected.

88261


MJF has the ring gimmick/signature.

He gets heat. He's been featured on TMZ for his heel antics for fuck sake. Which other heel today can do that? Nobody. You can tell me MJF is bland all you want, but even the most anti-AEW people can admit that the man is money. You just wish to be a contrarian.
 
81 - 100 of 107 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top