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Not defending anything but didn't cowboy Bob Orton win like 97%of his matches with a plastic cast when he broke his arm in the 80s?
Theres nothing wrong with a heel winning like that at all. Its after they've kicked out of flip piledrivers and moonsaults and landing directly on their necks that make it stupid. Like if the sequence that was GIFed in here was the FINISH, Id have zero issue with it. I would actually even call it a good finish. But of course not. It would be like in a movie where the bad guy blows up in a building in the middle of the movie, but the actual end of the movie is him losing a thumb wrestling match. Theres no gradual build or logical progression at all.
 

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This is a really reductive way of looking at wrestling if you ask me. "There's no story."

Yes there is. It's the first big match against AEW on a big big show, and Matt Riddle is clearly on his way to being a top guy and he wants a shot at the title. What does that mean, no story? Because Cole didn't work the leg for half an hour means there was no narrative? Because both guys worked an exciting high paced hard-hitting match there's no plot?

This strikes me more as a complaint that you have been conditioned to throw out there without actually giving the match a look for context and story.
That's not a story. It's a situation. You could use that level of description for any match ever. He wants a shot at the title? He's in a title match...no shit.

I like Adam Cole a lot. He's definitely in my top 10 favorites. However, he has a horrible tendency of no-selling and spamming big moves without a story.
 

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There's marking for someone and literally putting your tongue down their asses. Hilarious.

Cole will be losing to Tozawa on 205 Live by 2021 if he's lucky, and Riddle will be fired by then for being an idiot and posting crap on social media. He also has the most punchable face in the company, he doesn't look like a star at all.
 

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OK, I know people are just focusing on that one sequence in the match and using it to break down psychology and all that. And that's cool. But the main thing this thread is talking about are these guys being stars. And they are stars. And they'll be bigger stars in the future.

Some day in the future you could see a guy like Riddle going toe to toe with a guy like Lesnar and giving him a run for his money. Some day in the future you'll see Cole walk out on a big show and get a big pop for his catchphrase and cut a big promo. And you know they're both guys who if they were free agents tomorrow, they would both be pursued hard, especially Cole.

And by the way, going back to that one sequence, we're really gonna act like we don't see that stuff in every other major promotion right now? WWE, AEW, NXT, NJPW, ROH, they all have stuff like that go way outside the realms of a normal wrestling match. It's just for some reason, NXT is the one getting picked on for it right now, when it's been around for a long time, and they're hardly the only offenders.

And this isn't me talking about everyone. I'm not trying to make some blanket statement. You can like NXT and not like this match. But from what I see a lot on here, NXT gets a lot of the blame for this, and I just don't agree with that.
 

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OK, I know people are just focusing on that one sequence in the match and using it to break down psychology and all that. And that's cool. But the main thing this thread is talking about are these guys being stars. And they are stars. And they'll be bigger stars in the future.

Some day in the future you could see a guy like Riddle going toe to toe with a guy like Lesnar and giving him a run for his money. Some day in the future you'll see Cole walk out on a big show and get a big pop for his catchphrase and cut a big promo. And you know they're both guys who if they were free agents tomorrow, they would both be pursued hard, especially Cole.

And by the way, going back to that one sequence, we're really gonna act like we don't see that stuff in every other major promotion right now? WWE, AEW, NXT, NJPW, ROH, they all have stuff like that go way outside the realms of a normal wrestling match. It's just for some reason, NXT is the one getting picked on for it right now, when it's been around for a long time, and they're hardly the only offenders.

And this isn't me talking about everyone. I'm not trying to make some blanket statement. You can like NXT and not like this match. But from what I see a lot on here, NXT gets a lot of the blame for this, and I just don't agree with that.
Its not that one sequence. The entire match was nonsense.
 

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OK, I know people are just focusing on that one sequence in the match and using it to break down psychology and all that. And that's cool. But the main thing this thread is talking about are these guys being stars. And they are stars. And they'll be bigger stars in the future.

Some day in the future you could see a guy like Riddle going toe to toe with a guy like Lesnar and giving him a run for his money. Some day in the future you'll see Cole walk out on a big show and get a big pop for his catchphrase and cut a big promo. And you know they're both guys who if they were free agents tomorrow, they would both be pursued hard, especially Cole.

And by the way, going back to that one sequence, we're really gonna act like we don't see that stuff in every other major promotion right now? WWE, AEW, NXT, NJPW, ROH, they all have stuff like that go way outside the realms of a normal wrestling match. It's just for some reason, NXT is the one getting picked on for it right now, when it's been around for a long time, and they're hardly the only offenders.

And this isn't me talking about everyone. I'm not trying to make some blanket statement. You can like NXT and not like this match. But from what I see a lot on here, NXT gets a lot of the blame for this, and I just don't agree with that.
That's the norm nowadays, it definitely isn't exclusive to NXT. NXT just does it the best. It is the fans fault for never reacting to anything other than finishers and crazy high spots. If these same two guys put on a 5 star match filled with psychology, the crowd would be dead the entire time and people wouldn't rate it highly thanks to a dead crowd. People are incredibly in the tank for AEW right now. AEW could have put on that exact match move for move and everybody would be raving about it. But since NXT is under the WWE umbrella people want to show how cool and rebellious they are by basically loving everything AEW does and ignoring all of its obvious flaws.

Having said that, I liked AEW's first show a lot actually. I just don't understand why people have such a pack mentality all the time. If you like NXT it doesn't mean AEW is trash and if you like AEW it doesn't mean that NXT is all of a sudden trash. You see this crap with everything now. Conservative vs. Liberal, Xbox vs. Playstation, Sports team vs. Sports team, Car company vs. Car Company etc. etc. etc. It is never good enough for people to be a fan of something ,they have to dig in so hard that they have to destroy anything that even remotely competes with it. That first AEW show wasn't really all that different than a main roster WWE show if you really look at it. The only difference is it isn't stale and they still have the trust and interest of the live crowd.
 

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That's the norm nowadays, it definitely isn't exclusive to NXT. NXT just does it the best. It is the fans fault for never reacting to anything other than finishers and crazy high spots. If these same two guys put on a 5 star match filled with psychology, the crowd would be dead the entire time and people wouldn't rate it highly thanks to a dead crowd. People are incredibly in the tank for AEW right now. AEW could have put on that exact match move for move and everybody would be raving about it. But since NXT is under the WWE umbrella people want to show how cool and rebellious they are by basically loving everything AEW does and ignoring all of its obvious flaws.

Having said that, I liked AEW's first show a lot actually. I just don't understand why people have such a pack mentality all the time. If you like NXT it doesn't mean AEW is trash and if you like AEW it doesn't mean that NXT is all of a sudden trash. You see this crap with everything now. Conservative vs. Liberal, Xbox vs. Playstation, Sports team vs. Sports team, Car company vs. Car Company etc. etc. etc. It is never good enough for people to be a fan of something ,they have to dig in so hard that they have to destroy anything that even remotely competes with it. That first AEW show wasn't really all that different than a main roster WWE show if you really look at it. The only difference is it isn't stale and they still have the trust and interest of the live crowd.
Thats just absolutely false. A lot of AEW ppv matches were widely criticized for going way too long and being way too spotty. And who the fuck cares about what the Full Sail crowd thinks? What, if these two dont do 200 moves in 5 minutes and try to break each others necks then they're not gonna get 300 people to fill the place next week? Thats horseshit.
 

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I just don't understand why people like Riddle. Every time I see him, I actually shudder at the thought of people thinking he should be a top guy. He has no charisma, if anything, he comes across like a fake fuck with his whole "bro" gimmick when we all know he's not that chill person he's trying to portray, he's a dickhead. His mic skills are average, and he's athletic yeah, but it doesn't mean he's good in the ring. Idk about pyschology, but Riddle doesn't tell a story at all when he wrestles, all I get from his wrestling is "bro, look how good I am at choreographed dancing". I just don't see how people can like him at all, is it really only because he did MMA?
 

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That's not a story. It's a situation. You could use that level of description for any match ever. He wants a shot at the title? He's in a title match...no shit.

I like Adam Cole a lot. He's definitely in my top 10 favorites. However, he has a horrible tendency of no-selling and spamming big moves without a story.
Not every match ever has to have the plot to follow. It's wrestling for crying out loud, some matches will just be matches with very basic premises.
 

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Bitching and whining about bullshit "Psychology" is getting old.
No one here is saying they have to recreate Flair vs. Steamboat, just stop insulting our intelligence. Thats all. Fuck, I watch NJPW and enjoy Ospreay matches. Im not against crazy high flying shit. But these guys just take it to a level of dumb i cant accept, no matter how " bullshit" you think it is.
 

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You don't know what the word literally means.
He's not really wrong. They're on NXT performing in front of a very niche crowd. No matter how much people will talk up NXT, it's still developmental and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. When they hit the main roster is when we will see if they are true stars, but many NXT guys have flopped on the main roster. Anyone can get over in Full Sail and performing a bunch of flashy moves with no selling and psychology to get pops from the virgins in the crowd is not a true reflection of overness. It's a mockery of the wrestling business.
 

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He's not really wrong. They're on NXT performing in front of a very niche crowd. No matter how much people will talk up NXT, it's still developmental and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. When they hit the main roster is when we will see if they are true stars, but many NXT guys have flopped on the main roster. Anyone can get over in Full Sail and performing a bunch of flashy moves with no selling and psychology to get pops from the virgins in the crowd is not a true reflection of overness. It's a mockery of the wrestling business.
Saying they're literally the furthest thing from being stars is objectively, indefensibly wrong. It's silly hyperbole and it's not correct. Actually THINK about the sentence for half a second. Picture in your mind the worst least over wrestlers of all time.

If you don't like them and you do not think they'll be big stars on the main roster, fine. Express that. Explain why. Don't abuse the word literally and say stupid shit that you don't actually mean to say.
 

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Well a ''star'' in the wrestling business is someone who is successful. Most wrestlers were never stars. So when you consider that point and the reality that they're still in developmental performing in front of highly niche crowds and have not got a true taste of being on the main roster yet, the statement is not that wrong. They could be stars in the future, but right now they're nobodies.
 

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Sure dude. Takeover crowds going apeshit for them over and over and over, packed buildings of tens of thousands. But keep moving the goalposts to fit your world view. That's obviously important for you that they're considered non-entities, so whatever.
 

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Saying they're literally the furthest thing from being stars is objectively, indefensibly wrong. It's silly hyperbole and it's not correct. Actually THINK about the sentence for half a second. Picture in your mind the worst least over wrestlers of all time.

If you don't like them and you do not think they'll be big stars on the main roster, fine. Express that. Explain why. Don't abuse the word literally and say stupid shit that you don't actually mean to say.
They draw less than 1 mil viewers on USA and with the WWE brand behind them. They're absolute nobodies.
 
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