Wrestling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Among Hulk Hogan,John Cena,Stone Cold and The Rock,Rock was the least protected superstar yet he managed to become as great as them.
With the Superman booking that the other three got,do you think it would have worked with The Rock??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,340 Posts
No. Compare his booking in 1999 to late 2001-2002. He was getting that superman push in 2002 and crowds were starting to get bored of him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,200 Posts
He was already getting booked pretty strong 2001-2002 and no it wouldn't of worked because he was getting boos at a few events in 2001-2002. No Mercy 2001 being an example.
 

·
Smokin' Da Good Stuff
Joined
·
2,715 Posts
No and back then there were a lot more better all round wrestlers , not entertainers, Rock didn't get a Rocket push neither did the others, back then you earned the right unlike today as there ain't nobody on there level any of them , is there potential sure but it's about connecting with the crowd and there is isn't one , so today's entertainers have to think outside of the box and not just do as there told, push there ideas forward as vince stated a few years back there just happy to collect there paycheck and not grab the brass rings last person being cena.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
654 Posts
No and back then there were a lot more better all round wrestlers , not entertainers, Rock didn't get a Rocket push neither did the others, back then you earned the right unlike today as there ain't nobody on there level any of them , is there potential sure but it's about connecting with the crowd and there is isn't one , so today's entertainers have to think outside of the box and not just do as there told, push there ideas forward as vince stated a few years back there just happy to collect there paycheck and not grab the brass rings last person being cena.
Rock most certainly got a rocket push.

  • beat two other guys himself and became the sole survivor of his team in his debut match
  • won the ic title 3 months after debuting
  • held the title for 4 months, and only lost due to injury
  • wins the ic title a second time upon his return
  • final elimination in the 98 rumble
  • finalist in the 98 king of the ring
All this within his first 1,5 years on the main roster, and he would of course win the wwf championship at survivor series 98. 2 years from his debut.

I'm not saying that hes not talented or anything. But he definately had the wwe machine behind him from day one.

I think the only one who got a similar push(at that point in time) was the ultimate warrior, and it took warrior a year to win the ic title and 2,5 years to win the wwf title.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
No matter who you are, strong booking will only work for a year or two, after that the people will start turning.

With Rock, it's not the booking that bothered me, it's the fact that he lost all the big matches when he was in prime. Losing to HHH at WM 16 was straight up dumb, what's the point of Rock jobbing him all year long and then jobbed to him again at WM?? and even when he finally beat him, he needed Austin's help. That's not proper booking, that's politics.

I don't mind weak booking for the top guys, as long as they win when it really matter. Rock is 0-4 in championship matches at WM, let that sink in.
 

·
The Babyface of WF
Joined
·
12,535 Posts
He may have received a strong a strong push post debut but we are talking once he was established he already got from A to B by late 98 but during the course of his run as a Top guy he was booked far more vulnerable as such.

With typical FOTC booking akin to Austin, Cena, Hogan he would have suffered drawbacks to some degree from the audience just watch from late 01-02.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
To comment on Rock's booking, he was booked pretty weak during his second IC Title Reign, which is what propelled him into the main event. During this time he was not getting a rocket push.

Degeneration X (December 97 ppv)- Rock is pinned clean by Austin (IC Champ) even with Austin fighting off the rest of the Nation the whole match.

Next Night On Raw- Austin forfeits IC Title to Rock. Rock doesn't actually beat anyone for the title.

1998

Royal Rumble- Rock is pinned clean by Shamrock, but decision is reversed and Rock wins by DQ

No Way Out- 8 Man Tag Match, Rock taps out clean to Shamrock to lose the match for his team

WrestleMania 14- Rock taps clean to Shamrock, but decision is reversed after Shamrock won't break the ankle lock

Unforgiven- 6 Man Tag, Rock is pinned clean by Farooq

Over The Edge- Rock defeats Farooq by pinning him with his feet on the ropes

King Of The Ring- Semi Final Match: Rock pins Dan Severn after D Lo's interferance Finals: Rock taps Clean to Shamrock

Fully Loaded- 2 Out of 3 Falls vs. Triple H. Both get 1 fall from cheating/interference. Triple H pedigrees Rock as time expires. Draw

Summer Slam- Rock loses IC Title to Triple H after Mark Henry and Chyna interfere for their respective sides.


Rock only beat Farooq and Dan Severn on ppv during his 8 month reign. He never beat Austin or anyone for the title. Shamrock basically got 4 clean falls over him on ppv. Farooq got another one and he only battled Triple H to a draw the month before he lost the title to him. Shockingly, it was this title reign that catapulted him into the main event scene after Summer Slam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
What my point was that he should have booked to lose less more.And I agree with People's H2O that The Rock never won a main event at wrestlemania.Probably because he was not a political guy.I mean guys like Michaels,Austin and Triple H they all changed the outcome of their matches by doing politics at some point.But The Rock...either the others were too selfish or The Rock just wasn't selfish enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,456 Posts
To comment on Rock's booking, he was booked pretty weak during his second IC Title Reign, which is what propelled him into the main event. During this time he was not getting a rocket push.

Degeneration X (December 97 ppv)- Rock is pinned clean by Austin (IC Champ) even with Austin fighting off the rest of the Nation the whole match.

Next Night On Raw- Austin forfeits IC Title to Rock. Rock doesn't actually beat anyone for the title.

1998

Royal Rumble- Rock is pinned clean by Shamrock, but decision is reversed and Rock wins by DQ

No Way Out- 8 Man Tag Match, Rock taps out clean to Shamrock to lose the match for his team

WrestleMania 14- Rock taps clean to Shamrock, but decision is reversed after Shamrock won't break the ankle lock

Unforgiven- 6 Man Tag, Rock is pinned clean by Farooq

Over The Edge- Rock defeats Farooq by pinning him with his feet on the ropes

King Of The Ring- Semi Final Match: Rock pins Dan Severn after D Lo's interferance Finals: Rock taps Clean to Shamrock

Fully Loaded- 2 Out of 3 Falls vs. Triple H. Both get 1 fall from cheating/interference. Triple H pedigrees Rock as time expires. Draw

Summer Slam- Rock loses IC Title to Triple H after Mark Henry and Chyna interfere for their respective sides.


Rock only beat Farooq and Dan Severn on ppv during his 8 month reign. He never beat Austin or anyone for the title. Shamrock basically got 4 clean falls over him on ppv. Farooq got another one and he only battled Triple H to a draw the month before he lost the title to him. Shockingly, it was this title reign that catapulted him into the main event scene after Summer Slam.
Most of those he was a heel. Heels lose the big one, or win by cheating. That's what an evil heel does by definition. As you said at the top, it ultimately got him to the top of the card and win the belt.

It's not all about winning when you're a heel, it's about retaining heat throughout week to week and still featuring prominently which he did.

Bad booking or being buried would've seen him relegated to curtain jerking WM14 with Al Snow or someone.

If he was a face for all of that, then we're talking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,618 Posts
No. Compare his booking in 1999 to late 2001-2002. He was getting that superman push in 2002 and crowds were starting to get bored of him.
I dont remember that as being the case. Crowds only started getting bored or booing when he left to go filming. And he came back with same catchphrases, or prerecorded segments and fans were upset he wasnt more engaged.

If he had been full time i dont think they turn on him

To OP's question - Anything would have worked with The Rock. Too talented not to.

And if crowds did turn on him - he'd turn it right back on them and go heel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,340 Posts
I dont remember that as being the case. Crowds only started getting bored or booing when he left to go filming. And he came back with same catchphrases, or prerecorded segments and fans were upset he wasnt more engaged.

If he had been full time i dont think they turn on him

To OP's question - Anything would have worked with The Rock. Too talented not to.

And if crowds did turn on him - he'd turn it right back on them and go heel.
RVD was cheered more than The Rock when they fought against each other back in December 2001.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,618 Posts
RVD was cheered more than The Rock when they fought against each other back in December 2001.
I don't remember that feud/match off hand - but it doesn't surprise me. RVD was super popular at some point, I could see that happening. I could see RVD be cheered against Austin too in the right circumstances.

Was that face vs face? Or heel? And was it before Rock had left in anyway towards Holywood - ie before he went to film Mummy Returns?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,340 Posts
I don't remember that feud/match off hand - but it doesn't surprise me. RVD was super popular at some point, I could see that happening. I could see RVD be cheered against Austin too in the right circumstances.

Was that face vs face? Or heel? And was it before Rock had left in anyway towards Holywood - ie before he went to film Mummy Returns?
I don't remember that feud/match off hand - but it doesn't surprise me. RVD was super popular at some point, I could see that happening. I could see RVD be cheered against Austin too in the right circumstances.

Was that face vs face? Or heel? And was it before Rock had left in anyway towards Holywood - ie before he went to film Mummy Returns?
FACE VS FACE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
Most of those he was a heel. Heels lose the big one, or win by cheating. That's what an evil heel does by definition. As you said at the top, it ultimately got him to the top of the card and win the belt.

It's not all about winning when you're a heel, it's about retaining heat throughout week to week and still featuring prominently which he did.

Bad booking or being buried would've seen him relegated to curtain jerking WM14 with Al Snow or someone.

If he was a face for all of that, then we're talking.
Yes, but throughout that time he was cleanly pinned or submitted 6 times on ppv and had a draw. Even for a heel midcard champion that's still kind of weak. Most heel champions usually cheat to win but at least they're not losing. That booking worked for The Rock, but others wrestlers would have failed with that booking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Rock was a transcendent star. So I think his kind of booking. Kinda worked for him. Although it hurt him to lose so many big matches. Which is why him beating Austin WM 20. Was crucial. At that time he put over Lesnar and Goldberg. When his Hollywood heel persona was hot as hell. He was always hotter as a heel imo. But when he was face. He with Austin was probably the biggest protagonist in wrestling history. And imo the biggest draw the business ever saw. But to really answer the ops original point. HHH :D.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top