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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anyone feel like i do that this can work in a one off case if applied to the right superstar?

it would be cesaro in my case, i don't like the neutraliser as his finish and hes a known submissions expert so why doesnt he approach each in a very scientific method
attack a particular body part, focus his moveset in the match around that body part and work it into the finish

i feel it would also help him in the promos, he could be self assured, arrogant with the fact that he can identify peoples weaknesses and use them to his advantage

it would also give the audience something to look for in every match, a bit of intrigue, whats he going to attack? hows he going to do it?

thoughts?
 

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It would damage the psychology of a match since the fans wouldnt know how to gauge the strength of certain moves.

Match endings could seem abrupt and fall flat.

What would be better is if each wrestler had 4 or 5 believable finishers instead of just 1 or 2. It could achieve the same effect you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It would damage the psychology of a match since the fans wouldnt know how to gauge the strength of certain moves.

Match endings could seem abrupt and fall flat.
so a style based solely on selling and psychology would damage the psychology of a match? that doesn't make any sense
the crowds arent stupid, say hes working aj and goes after the arm because that's what styles needs for the PF
as soon as he started the match, using arm breakers, kick and strikes to the arm and other moves arm related the crowd would realise that's what he's after
any submission from that point would be a threat to end the match
its also very easy through rope breaks and breaking out of moves to sell how much damage that moves does

match endings should sometimes be abrupt anyway
 

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You already have the guy.

Your boy HANDSOME RUSEV!



 

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First of, Cesaro uses the sharpshooter as a finisher.

Secondly, there might be something good here. Obviously, not any basic move can end a match but I'd be happy if a match ends with a signature applied on an extremely damaged body part. In fact, I think wrestlers should end more matches with signatures and the finisher is like their last resort. It is a bit bullshit that someone like Samoa Joe can destroy someones knee the whole match and not pin him with the kneecapper and only with the urinagi or muscle buster even when 90 percent of his offence doesn't effect his opponents back or neck.

Its a great idea because there is a certain level of uncertaingy to a match as it can genuinely end at any moment. Finally, Ziggler's satellite DDT can actually end a match so people are more willing to buy it actually ending a match instead of the commentators faking shock that someone kicked out of a move everyone bloody kicks out of.

Imagine a PPV main event, with 2 guys who have defeated other guys with a whole sorts of signatures. The crowd will be on their every move as they know any signature with enough damage already on the body part can end the match. Imagine the crowd pop when someone actually kicks out of a finisher which at that point shouldn't have ever been kicked out on. Of course not every wrestler has to be like this, but theres no harm in some having this style of moveset. Its similar to the finisher and super finisher that some Japanese styles do.
 
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It would damage the psychology of a match since the fans wouldnt know how to gauge the strength of certain moves.

Match endings could seem abrupt and fall flat.

What would be better is if each wrestler had 4 or 5 believable finishers instead of just 1 or 2. It could achieve the same effect you are looking for.
They would fall flat at first, but once people are acclimated to the idea, you'd end up with far more drama because fans aren't just playing on their phone in the middle of the match waiting for it to finish. A lot of people just zone out matches now because it's become too formulaic, they've got to start spicing it up. Matches only end 3 ways. Finisher, surprise roll up/cradle, or interference/weapons. That's it. Moves don't mean anything because John Cena can give Kevin Owens 80 piledrivers and he'll kick out 80 times, but it's over when he hits that stupid AA. Why even do other moves? Why doesn't Randy Orton just spend the whole match trying to hit the RKO over and over and over and over and over again? All the other moves are meaningless. We've been taught that a fucking Spiked DDT means absolutely nothing, it's ridiculous.

Giving a guy 5 finishers doesn't accomplish the same goal, because that's still all about waiting for which finisher he's gonna hit. I'm not against finishers, they should exist, but they've got to start adapting their formula, especially for big matches because it's just not dramatic. There's a reason UFC fights have such hot crowds and it's not only because it's real, it's because it could actually end at any time. WWE needs to create that feel. Even if they still rely on finishers, which is fine, there's nothing wrong with perfecting a move, even in a real sport, but every few weeks there should be a few matches that just end because it makes everything mean more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First of, Cesaro uses the sharpshooter as a finisher.

Secondly, there might be something good here. Obviously, not any basic move can end a match but I'd be happy if a match ends with a signature applied on an extremely damaged body part. In fact, I think wrestlers should end more matches with signatures and the finisher is like their last resort. It is a bit bullshit that someone like Samoa Joe can destroy someones knee the whole match and not pin him with the kneecapper and only with the urinagi or muscle buster even when 90 percent of his offence doesn't effect his opponents back or neck.

Its a great idea because there is a certain level of uncertaingy to a match as it can genuinely end at any moment. Finally, Ziggler's satellite DDT can actually end a match so people are more willing to buy it actually ending a match instead of the commentators faking shock that someone kicked out of a move everyone bloody kicks out of.

Imagine a PPV main event, with 2 guys who have defeated other guys with a whole sorts of signatures. The crowd will be on their every move as they know any signature with enough damage already on the body part can end the match. Imagine the crowd pop when someone actually kicks out of a finisher which at that point shouldn't have ever been kicked out on. Of course not every wrestler has to be like this, but theres no harm in some having this style of moveset. Its similar to the finisher and super finisher that some Japanese styles do.
i know he uses the sharpshooter thats why i chose him as the example, if hes using that why not work the back for the majority of the match

of course his next opponents going to think he'll work his back, so cesaro changes up, works the knee and uses a figure 4 or knee lock

it makes a lot of sense to me, but only as a 1 off
i agree on signatures, there shouldnt be super finishers though imo
 

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Honestly, I'd love if matches weren't so formulaic and comic book-esque where everyone has a signature move. Simply a fight where they use a bunch of moves, and in the end if done right, the pin will feel more organic and not just because the opponent was hit with a certain move.

What I would do for Roman Reigns, for example, is ditch the Spear and have his gimmick be that he ground-n-pounds his opponents until the referee stops the match due to the opponent not being able to continue. It would be a great moment if, in the main event of WrestleMania, after 20 minutes of brutal fighting where both guys bleed, Reigns wins the match when he viciously starts pounding on Brock until the referee has to stop it. That would truly be conquering the Beast.
 

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Honestly, I'd love if matches weren't so formulaic and comic book-esque where everyone has a signature move. Simply a fight where they use a bunch of moves, and in the end if done right, the pin will feel more organic and not just because the opponent was hit with a certain move.

What I would do for Roman Reigns, for example, is ditch the Spear and have his gimmick be that he ground-n-pounds his opponents until the referee stops the match due to the opponent not being able to continue. It would be a great moment if, in the main event of WrestleMania, after 20 minutes of brutal fighting where both guys bleed, Reigns wins the match when he viciously starts pounding on Brock until the referee has to stop it. That would truly be conquering the Beast.
They tried that with Brock as the one doing it and it didn't go so well, so I might try to avoid that. I certainly don't trust Roman to be able to do something safely if Brock can't, given that Brock has way better training than Roman does.
 

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They tried that with Brock as the one doing it and it didn't go so well, so I might try to avoid that. I certainly don't trust Roman to be able to do something safely if Brock can't, given that Brock has way better training than Roman does.
I'm not saying Reigns should legit hardway him. That was the problem with the Brock/Orton match where, instead of getting an epic battle between two badasses who had never faced each other before, you got another 10-minute BROCK SMASH. Have it be worked, but sell the intensity, the brutality and the emotion of the match by not having Reigns just do the typical Spear then 1, 2, 3.
 

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Could work with Strowman. :draper2

Every week he beats a wrestler with a different type of slam. Would keep fans on their toes because you don't know when the match might end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Could work with Strowman. :draper2

Every week he beats a wrestler with a different type of slam. Would keep fans on their toes because you don't know when the match might end.
i was thinking more submission based but yeah it could work with slams as well, i think itd be harder to get that crowd tension with a slam though
 

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They would fall flat at first, but once people are acclimated to the idea, you'd end up with far more drama because fans aren't just playing on their phone in the middle of the match waiting for it to finish. A lot of people just zone out matches now because it's become too formulaic, they've got to start spicing it up. Matches only end 3 ways. Finisher, surprise roll up/cradle, or interference/weapons. That's it. Moves don't mean anything because John Cena can give Kevin Owens 80 piledrivers and he'll kick out 80 times, but it's over when he hits that stupid AA. Why even do other moves? Why doesn't Randy Orton just spend the whole match trying to hit the RKO over and over and over and over and over again? All the other moves are meaningless. We've been taught that a fucking Spiked DDT means absolutely nothing, it's ridiculous.

Giving a guy 5 finishers doesn't accomplish the same goal, because that's still all about waiting for which finisher he's gonna hit. I'm not against finishers, they should exist, but they've got to start adapting their formula, especially for big matches because it's just not dramatic. There's a reason UFC fights have such hot crowds and it's not only because it's real, it's because it could actually end at any time. WWE needs to create that feel. Even if they still rely on finishers, which is fine, there's nothing wrong with perfecting a move, even in a real sport, but every few weeks there should be a few matches that just end because it makes everything mean more.
Been saying that for the longest. Matches shouldn't ALWAYS have to end on a finisher or roll up like you said. Why can't Orton win with that spiked DDT once in a while? Or Rollins with the Falcon Arrow? It would make matches much more interesting knowing they could end at any moment instead of the same old shit.
 
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