RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS* - Page 239 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #2381 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 02:34 AM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Who were the 5 better than him that season?
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post #2382 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 05:12 AM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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I personally could care less about insults. But if I'm not allowed to call out people for stupid shit they say, then I'm not letting others get away with it against me (especially when what I say isn't idiotic. At least let it be in instances where I deserve said insult).



Yes, you'd be wrong regardless. A guy who is elite at one end of the floor isn't better than someone who is elite at both ends of the floor. That, FYI, is what you're saying, and that's incredibly laughable. You're also using a team concept to discredit Anthony Davis as a player. Once again, that is incredibly laughable.



Going off of the majority of your posts, individual accomplishments don't matter apparently. Otherwise you wouldn't be using the amount of times Anthony Davis made the playoffs against him.







Um, yes I can.

It doesn't matter if Harden's team are the odds on favorites or not. What matters is how he performs. You said yourself that Superstar players elevate their teams. And yet more often than not, Harden was the main reason for his teams losing in the playoffs, even in moments where they WERE favored to win. And it isn't like the opposing teams possessed players who were well known defensive stoppers of Harden. He just always massively under-performed because that's what he does.



Why isn't it Harden's fault? So now we're suddenly not holding the standard against the top stars on the team? I thought we were. You can't change the narrative of your argument to support your view on the matter. It doesn't work like that. Either be consistent with your logic or admit you're just making shit up.

And yeah, all great teams have good supporting players. That's exactly my point and why I mentioned Capela in the first place. He changed the dynamic of the Rockets and made them a legitimately great team. So did Paul. Yeah, Paul is aging and at this point isn't worth the money he's being given, but a year ago? He was the main driving force behind Houston almost pulling off a shocking upset over Golden State until he once again went down with injury. You want to call Paul a notorious failure in the playoffs? His performance in last years playoffs against the Warriors was better than anything Harden ever did in the playoffs.



Okay, so you tell me what his weaknesses are then, apart from injuries. Come on, tell me. I gave you Harden's weaknesses. The man plays no defense, is a turnover machine and, despite being this offensive god you speak of, shoots a below average FG%.



You just got done claiming that the Bucks weren't favorites to win the East this year, even though they were heavily favored. You thought you could get away with telling us outright lies and you want to tell me I'm bad at arguing? You make Stephen A Smith sound like Dom2k with your logic.
How can anybody take you seriously where you think I'm wrong regardless of what happens during the 19-20 season. How can you validate your points by coming off so ignorant that regardless of what I say, or what happens to validate my points, that you're still right because you said so. You realize how much credibility anything and everything you've just said lost, right?

Where did I say individual accomplishments don't matter, what lol... my entire basis is that Anthony Davis has no credible accomplishments in the last 7 years of his career to justify him being a top 5 player.

Also if we're basing defence on what the NBA defines as defence, Harden is an average defender. Steals and deflections per game are categorised under defence and he is one of the league leaders in both categories. Give him slack where you will, but also give him credit where he deserves.

As Joel said above, name 5 players that were better than D Rose during his MVP year lmao.

Harden was the main reason for teams losing? Your previously aforementioned Capela, being the "reason for Houstons success", completely disappeared in the playoffs this year. Harden's PPG have increased the last 4 years and despite not being able to make it past the obstacle and behemoth that is Golden State, he's been pretty good otherwise. Next season however when Golden State won't have Durant/Klay, will definitely be Harden's biggest opportunity (depending on what other FA Lakers will get).

Apart from the injuries? As if that isn't a huge one to note. The dude plays roughly 3/4ths of a season a year. That means he's a liability and depends on his team for results for roughly 25% of the season. That's a huge problem in on itself. His court vision is lacklustre compared to guys like Giannis and Draymond, meaning his ability to create plays for his teammates is average/below average, he's definitely not a great playmaker. He doesn't play winning basketball and he doesn't make his teammates better on the court.

The Sixers, Raptors, and Boston were the 3 clear-cut favourites to come out on top of the East before the season began. I don't know how short-sighted your memory is. A lot of people even had Indiana ahead of Milwaukee.


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post #2383 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 10:54 AM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Who were the 5 better than him that season?
LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Howard. In fact you could argue that Rose wasn't even the best PG in the league that year. He won the MVP award because Chicago had the best record in the East and he basically played the Allen Iverson role, where he was the number one option on a mostly defense oriented team. His contributions were noteworthy, but by no means was he a top five player because of it.

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How can anybody take you seriously where you think I'm wrong regardless of what happens during the 19-20 season. How can you validate your points by coming off so ignorant that regardless of what I say, or what happens to validate my points, that you're still right because you said so. You realize how much credibility anything and everything you've just said lost, right?
Because your argument isn't based on what happens this season. That was your cop out when you realized you didn't have any leg to stand on against any of the points me and everyone else made against your posts on the matter. We all know what you're trying to do and it's not going to work.

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Where did I say individual accomplishments don't matter, what lol... my entire basis is that Anthony Davis has no credible accomplishments in the last 7 years of his career to justify him being a top 5 player.
You mean apart from being a six time all star (including an All Star MVP), a three time blocks leader (and on two of those occasions he played less than 70 games which is insane)? Last season Davis was second in the league in scoring and was a top three defensive player in the league. And he was one of the best rebounders as well. That alone puts him in the top five.

But to you, this doesn't matter.

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Also if we're basing defence on what the NBA defines as defence, Harden is an average defender. Steals and deflections per game are categorised under defence and he is one of the league leaders in both categories. Give him slack where you will, but also give him credit where he deserves.
First off, it's spelled defense. You should really stop claiming I'm ignorant of the subject matter when you can't even spell the word correctly. Second, no. You're probably one of those people who think Steph Curry was a top five defender at his position in 2016 because he led the league in steals right?

This past season the Rockets were minus five on defense per one hundred possessions when he was on the floor. That's not an average defensive player.

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As Joel said above, name 5 players that were better than D Rose during his MVP year lmao.
See above.

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Harden was the main reason for teams losing? Your previously aforementioned Capela, being the "reason for Houstons success", completely disappeared in the playoffs this year.
Capela was just one of many reasons that I listed. Don't try to twist this and claim that I was saying he solved all of their problems.

And I said more often that not. That means it's not always the case. But I'm also not going to give Harden a pass for shooting 58% from the free throw line in what was a tightly contested close out game and turning the ball over more times than he had assists that night. All in all, this seasons failure in the playoffs goes back to Houston just being outmatched by Golden State more than anything else.

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Harden's PPG have increased the last 4 years and despite not being able to make it past the obstacle and behemoth that is Golden State, he's been pretty good otherwise. Next season however when Golden State won't have Durant/Klay, will definitely be Harden's biggest opportunity (depending on what other FA Lakers will get).
Or San Antonio, or Portland. But yes, I actually agree with you here.

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Apart from the injuries? As if that isn't a huge one to note. The dude plays roughly 3/4ths of a season a year. That means he's a liability and depends on his team for results for roughly 25% of the season.
Yes, that is a huge one. We're ignoring that for now and are focusing on his talent.

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His court vision is lacklustre compared to guys like Giannis and Draymond, meaning his ability to create plays for his teammates is average/below average, he's definitely not a great playmaker. He doesn't play winning basketball and he doesn't make his teammates better on the court.
Alright, I'm not even finishing your post. This is just pushing the line of laughable ignorance that I never thought I would see.

You're giving Anthony Davis, a traditional PF, shit for not making his teammates better? Especially when the man averaged nearly 4 assists a game this season and can anchor an entire defense? How many games have you watched featuring Davis? Have you ever sat down and actually watched a regular season game featuring the Pelicans? The man doesn't play winning basketball and doesn't make his teammates better. I have truly seen it all.



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post #2384 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 11:55 AM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Howard. In fact you could argue that Rose wasn't even the best PG in the league that year. He won the MVP award because Chicago had the best record in the East and he basically played the Allen Iverson role, where he was the number one option on a mostly defense oriented team. His contributions were noteworthy, but by no means was he a top five player because of it.



Because your argument isn't based on what happens this season. That was your cop out when you realized you didn't have any leg to stand on against any of the points me and everyone else made against your posts on the matter. We all know what you're trying to do and it's not going to work.



You mean apart from being a six time all star (including an All Star MVP), a three time blocks leader (and on two of those occasions he played less than 70 games which is insane)? Last season Davis was second in the league in scoring and was a top three defensive player in the league. And he was one of the best rebounders as well. That alone puts him in the top five.

But to you, this doesn't matter.



First off, it's spelled defense. You should really stop claiming I'm ignorant of the subject matter when you can't even spell the word correctly. Second, no. You're probably one of those people who think Steph Curry was a top five defender at his position in 2016 because he led the league in steals right?

This past season the Rockets were minus five on defense per one hundred possessions when he was on the floor. That's not an average defensive player.



See above.



Capela was just one of many reasons that I listed. Don't try to twist this and claim that I was saying he solved all of their problems.

And I said more often that not. That means it's not always the case. But I'm also not going to give Harden a pass for shooting 58% from the free throw line in what was a tightly contested close out game and turning the ball over more times than he had assists that night. All in all, this seasons failure in the playoffs goes back to Houston just being outmatched by Golden State more than anything else.



Or San Antonio, or Portland. But yes, I actually agree with you here.



Yes, that is a huge one. We're ignoring that for now and are focusing on his talent.



Alright, I'm not even finishing your post. This is just pushing the line of laughable ignorance that I never thought I would see.

You're giving Anthony Davis, a traditional PF, shit for not making his teammates better? Especially when the man averaged nearly 4 assists a game this season and can anchor an entire defense? How many games have you watched featuring Davis? Have you ever sat down and actually watched a regular season game featuring the Pelicans? The man doesn't play winning basketball and doesn't make his teammates better. I have truly seen it all.
Arguing with you is so pointless. You don't even know defense and defence are different spellings of the same word, and you tried to bash me for it. Congratulations, you played yourself.

You keep making stuff up, how I'm only talking about the future season. I've begun and ended talking about empty stats, the inability to win. Listing an All-Star MVP is such a laughable thing to do. Imagine, listing a for-fun game MVP as a notable accomplishment. Anyways, good luck in life with that 'tude, don't got time to argue with ignorant chumps.

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post #2385 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Howard. In fact you could argue that Rose wasn't even the best PG in the league that year. He won the MVP award because Chicago had the best record in the East and he basically played the Allen Iverson role, where he was the number one option on a mostly defense oriented team. His contributions were noteworthy, but by no means was he a top five player because of it.
Rather unfair, imo. You're correct in that it was a defence orientated team, which is what helps his case imo, as he was the only one scoring and setting up plays for that team.

That team could only go as far as Rose could and when Miami shut him down from game 2 onwards, there was no where for the Bulls to go. Fast forward a year on and he drags them to best record in the league and looking comfortable in the game vs Philly. He then goes down late in the 4th and is done for a year. All of a sudden Bulls go from a team who will give Miami a proper fight in the ECF (would still most likely lose), to a team that doesn't even look like they belong in the top 8 seeds.

That year LeBron and Wade had each other (and Bosh). Durant had Westbrook and Harden. Kobe had Pau. Rose was pretty much doing it all alone.

I seriously think you're playing down Rose's talents and performances in that year (+ the following). He was on his way to something special, imo.
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post #2386 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

Pretty sure no one would have had Steve Nash in their top 5 in either of his MVP seasons.

Garnett, Kobe, Iverson, Pierce, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Pau all in their prime. Wade and Lebron young and putting up THEM STATS.

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post #2387 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 02:58 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Rather unfair, imo. You're correct in that it was a defence orientated team, which is what helps his case imo, as he was the only one scoring and setting up plays for that team.

That team could only go as far as Rose could and when Miami shut him down from game 2 onwards, there was no where for the Bulls to go. Fast forward a year on and he drags them to best record in the league and looking comfortable in the game vs Philly. He then goes down late in the 4th and is done for a year. All of a sudden Bulls go from a team who will give Miami a proper fight in the ECF (would still most likely lose), to a team that doesn't even look like they belong in the top 8 seeds.

That year LeBron and Wade had each other (and Bosh). Durant had Westbrook and Harden. Kobe had Pau. Rose was pretty much doing it all alone.

I seriously think you're playing down Rose's talents and performances in that year (+ the following). He was on his way to something special, imo.
Carlos Boozer was averaging 17 points a game that season. Loul Deng was averaging 17 points a game and was one of their main perimeter defenders. Joakim Noah averaged a double double and was their defensive anchor. He wasn't all alone by any means. He had a great team surrounding him.

Rose winning the MVP award was the product of him being the undisputed number one option in only his third year on a team that went from being in the eight seed to suddenly being the number one team record wise in the East. It was never about his talent, only about the story, and there's a reason why whether or not Rose deserved the MVP that year continues to be disputed to this day.

Now, with that said, if you were to say that Rose meant a lot more to his team than LeBron or any of those other four guys I mentioned, then yes, I could see an argument for that. And it's on that very merit that a lot of people believe was why Rose won the MVP award in the end. Either way, by no means was Rose a top five player that season. He was a terrific offensive PG capable of carrying his team in that regard, but he wasn't anything special defensively and he wasn't exactly a great playmaker either. He was fundamentally flawed. He could have put up the same stats with a less impressive supporting cast and he probably never wins the MVP award because of it.

Winning the MVP award is a flawed aspect and way of truly determining one's belonging in the NBA's list of best of the modern era. You see guys like Steve Nash who meant so much to his team but was a horrid defensive player win the award twice because guess what? His team was near or at the top of the league and he was their undisputed best player. There's a reason Kobe Bryant never won an MVP award until Pau Gasol got traded to LA and the Lakers were suddenly relevant again, despite LeBron James having arguably the better season but not having as much success.

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Arguing with you is so pointless. You don't even know defense and defence are different spellings of the same word, and you tried to bash me for it. Congratulations, you played yourself.
Actually no. Defense is the American way of spelling it. Using it with a C is the British way of spelling it. In other words, you're wrong, and that was probably the easiest bait I've ever committed on this site.

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You keep making stuff up, how I'm only talking about the future season.
Literally nothing I said was made up.

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I've begun and ended talking about empty stats, the inability to win.
And yet you continue to give James Harden a pass despite his empty stats and his inability to win with an even greater supporting cast than Davis.

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Listing an All-Star MVP is such a laughable thing to do. Imagine, listing a for-fun game MVP as a notable accomplishment.
And listing James Harden's MVP award wasn't any more laughable?

Harden won his MVP award because Leonard was gone for most of the season, Westbrook didn't average 30 points a game again along with a triple double because Paul George and Carmela Anthony were traded to the team, Kevin Durant went to Golden State so neither he or Curry were going to win it, and LeBron stopped giving a fuck about regular season. And most importantly, Harden got Chris Paul, Capela and a string of defensive players helped make the Rockets end the season with the best record in the league. And as we all know with the NBA, if you are the best player on an NBA team that finishes with the best record, unless another player in the league is having a historically great season, you are guaranteed the MVP award. And as we all know, as soon as Ariza left and Paul continued to age, the Rockets became worse (and this is despite Harden averaging 36 points a game this season. But sure, we're not going to blame him refusing to play defense or claim his stats were empty because why would we since we're clearly not factoring in logic, context or anything of the sort).

And the best part about all of this? People STILL dispute whether or not Harden should have won that year. People still claim that LeBron should have won it, the man who didn't give a shit about regular season. You know who else people claimed should have won that year? Anthony Davis, the man who was second in the league in scoring and was leading the league in blocks. He was without question the best two way player in the league at that point. But of course he wasn't going to win because unless he puts up Wilt Chamberlin numbers, no one's going to care that he's the clear cut best big man player in the league because his teams record isn't anything to go crazy over.

Tell me, how does Harden's MVP award prove he's a top five player in the league when the only reason he won it was because all the better players in the league were injured, in a position where they couldn't or just didn't care enough to do so?

If you are going to list meaningless accomplishments, so am I. You opened that door the moment you fell back on his MVP award like it was supposed to prove something. If you want to use things like that as a crutch in your argument, you better have a clear understanding of how that leg the crutch is being used for got broken in the first place. Because in this case, you clearly didn't.

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Anyways, good luck in life with that 'tude, don't got time to argue with ignorant chumps.
Okay, I look forward to your reply after claiming you weren't going to do so like last time.



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post #2388 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:18 PM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Actually no. Defense is the American way of spelling it. Using it with a C is the British way of spelling it. In other words, you're wrong, and that was probably the easiest bait I've ever committed on this site.
Nice, you can't even admit that you're ever wrong. Good to see. They're the same thing by definition. Not everyone on here is American, hope you realise that.

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post #2389 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:44 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Nice, you can't even admit that you're ever wrong. Good to see. They're the same thing by definition. Not everyone on here is American, hope you realise that.
I've never had issues with admitting when I'm wrong. That's not the point of what I'm doing here. The "I'm baiting you" part is true. It has nothing to do with the defence part however.

Lets see if you can figure it out. This should be fun.

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Pretty sure no one would have had Steve Nash in their top 5 in either of his MVP seasons.

Garnett, Kobe, Iverson, Pierce, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Pau all in their prime. Wade and Lebron young and putting up THEM STATS.
I'm not really sure if I'd put Iverson and Jaminson over Nash.



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post #2390 of 2613 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

I think it's time for both of you to move on. Please stop.

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I'm not really sure if I'd put Iverson and Jaminson over Nash.
Iverson maybe. Definitely not Jamison though.

Point being, there's a lot of names there and I'm sure a lot of people and quite likely most people wouldn't have had Nash in their top 5.

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