RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS* - Page 236 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #2351 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:15 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Originally Posted by JM View Post
They traded for Lowry as well (and have since resigned him twice). Like I said, best free agent they've ever signed is Jose Calderon.
That's right, I forgot he was traded for.



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post #2352 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:48 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Why do I have to name drop McCollum, pretty sure it's obvious he's a great player. They had Kanter for less than a year and he did amazing for them, but lets not act like anyone expected much out of him. Hood greatly overachieved for what it's worth. Nurkic was injured. He's had a decent to good supporting cast but it's not out of this world amazing.

If we're going to suggest that Anthony Davis is this top 5 player, he should be able to have carried the team to more playoff appearances. He's had some pretty good teammates over the years with Holiday, Evans, Rondo, Cousins, Randle, Hield, Eric Gordon, Anderson, and some lesser guys who did great like Frazier, Galloway, etc. He hasn't had as terrible as teams as people like to make them out to be.

Anthony Davis has been a proven loser in the last 7 years. That's just how I'm going to see it until he actually shows otherwise.
Lebron is literally in your top 5 and just missed the playoffs in the West.

The West is not the East. You do not make it out of the West easily and it's usually 10 teams deep, meaning someone is going to miss the playoffs. He basically sat out this year too so it's not like this year can really count against him.

New Orleans mortgaged their future to go all in with him and it backfired. Signings like Evans, Solomon Hill, Asik, etc doomed them to never have cap space and just handicapped the team. Holiday dealt with injury issues as well as missing a big chunk of the 2016/2017 season due to his wife's situation. Eric Gordon flat out hated playing there and wanted out and when they forced him back he was quite clearly half assing it considering how much his play improved once joining the Rockets.

The Pelicans fucked AD and it's hard for any player to make the playoffs in the West with management like that. When he did make the playoffs he absolutely dominated like you'd expect out of a superstar. The Warriors had no solution for him even with one of the best defenders in Draymond Green. He's an absolute animal.

Also to your point, Lebron went to 8 straight finals in the East and missed the playoffs in the West. Largely due to injuries to the roster. Why aren't you holding that against him either.

And Embiid is not better than Davis lol. You can't stop Davis meanwhile larger defenders that don't fall for Embiid's fakes(Horford/Marc in particular) have shown to be effective defenders against Embiid. Embiid still has a longs way to go and I say this as a massive Embiid fan.
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post #2353 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:18 PM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Lebron is literally in your top 5 and just missed the playoffs in the West.

The West is not the East. You do not make it out of the West easily and it's usually 10 teams deep, meaning someone is going to miss the playoffs. He basically sat out this year too so it's not like this year can really count against him.

New Orleans mortgaged their future to go all in with him and it backfired. Signings like Evans, Solomon Hill, Asik, etc doomed them to never have cap space and just handicapped the team. Holiday dealt with injury issues as well as missing a big chunk of the 2016/2017 season due to his wife's situation. Eric Gordon flat out hated playing there and wanted out and when they forced him back he was quite clearly half assing it considering how much his play improved once joining the Rockets.

The Pelicans fucked AD and it's hard for any player to make the playoffs in the West with management like that. When he did make the playoffs he absolutely dominated like you'd expect out of a superstar. The Warriors had no solution for him even with one of the best defenders in Draymond Green. He's an absolute animal.

Also to your point, Lebron went to 8 straight finals in the East and missed the playoffs in the West. Largely due to injuries to the roster. Why aren't you holding that against him either.

And Embiid is not better than Davis lol. You can't stop Davis meanwhile larger defenders that don't fall for Embiid's fakes(Horford/Marc in particular) have shown to be effective defenders against Embiid. Embiid still has a longs way to go and I say this as a massive Embiid fan.
I'm pretty sure I did criticize LeBron for missing the playoffs in one of my earlier posts, I think you just missed it. I know Davis is a good player, I'm not saying he's god awful. He's just unproven and I don't think he was dealt as bad of hands as people make them out to be. We can disagree on that much, that's fine. Davis is supposed to be significantly better than Lillard, right? So even if Lillard's supporting cast was equal/slightly better, Davis should have AT LEAST been able to make the playoffs on 8th seed or better on more than 2 occasions. That's just how I see it. Now with LeBron ANOTHER year older, and Davis being unproven and injury prone, I see and anticipate a potential disappointing season for the Lakers, reminiscent of the Dwight/Kobe season.

I'm too lazy to pull up the stats but I remember looking at it before, Embiids numbers were close, if not better than Davis', and that's huge considering the minutes restriction for Embiid, and the fact that he had to share the court with Butler, Redick, Simmons, and Harris.

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post #2354 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 08:18 PM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Originally Posted by JM View Post
Regardless of how he was performing he was their franchise player, was perceived as such and was traded as such. They won multiple playoff rounds with him as their franchise player and made it to their eastern conference final with him as the franchise player. As soon as Lebron went west they were contenders to be the team to lose to the Warriors in the NBA Finals.
Does that mean regardless of how he was performing, Gasol has to be perceived as such and was traded as such?

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The only point here that matters is that Golden State got one of the best players in NBA History through free agency and another great player (when healthy) through free agency (at a ridiculous bargain). Not to mention they got Iggy, Livingston and Jerebko through Free Agency as well. The best player toronto has ever got through free agency is Jose Calderon. Let that sink in. Every meaningful player on the Raptors they either drafted or traded for apart from FVV who was a summer league invite. How do you not see the glaring differences in how the teams were built?
Iguodala was obtained via trade? Jerebko and Livingston were back up players signed via free agency. Raptors did sign Biyombo and Turkoglu in the past via free agency too even if the latter didn't pan out. Warriors had to trade away two starters with one of them being a younger player to clear cap space for Durant too. Think they also had to give up their back up big in Ezili as well. Cousins played a half season. As for drafting versus trades, if Raptors didn't draft well, they wouldn't be able to execute said trades. GSW did something similar via 'trading' away Barnes for Durant.

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That was never your point in the first place. Your point was that the Raptors did the same ting the Warriors did, which is completely false.
It was a point that I brought up later. I said they constructed the roster similarly, pairing up great players when other posters were saying how Raptors winning is different than 'super teams'. Hey Mr. Raptors had more depth but still played the same short rotation



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And that still is a bad comparison.
Finding player via developmental team and finding players via minimum contracts in free agency. I.e players meant to be the 13-15 player on the team becoming viable rotation players.



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I agree that Lowry was the better player. That doesn't change the fact that DeRozen was their franchise player.

Gasol: Okay? That just further proves my point. If his team sucked and yet he wasn't even able to make the all star team, that says a lot about how far down he fell as a player. This is a guy that was able to make the All NBA first team while still being on a good team at one point.
Seems like you only meant franchise player in the casual fan perspective. Sorry I forgot I was talking to a casual.



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Durant didn't gamble on shit. He knew he was going to be hated. That's not a gamble, that's an understanding of what he's getting himself into. The only gamble is that it might not earn him a title, but he already knew that was a foregone conclusion since the only team that could beat the Warriors was the team HE was previously on.

And yeah, this season proved winning isn't guaranteed. When Durant joined the Warriors, there wasn't any team like the Raptors.
When Durant joined the Warriors, there was a team called the Spurs with the same player that won the Raptors the championship. That pushed the team for the first seed and was leading in Game 1 in the WCF before said players got hurt.


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Which is not what he claimed was his reasoning for going there. His reasoning was that he felt the Warriors needed him since they couldn't beat the Cavaliers in the finals. That clearly wasn't the case.
I beg to differ. Evidently without Durant the Warriors couldn't beat even the Raptors. Guess what? The team with elite wing play won again. How many finals in a row has the finals MVP been wing players again?



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No, he went there because he wanted an easy ring. If he wanted to prove he was worthy of a max contract, he would have went to a team that didn't have four other all stars and allowed him more opportunities to showcase his talent.
He was out for half a season. No teams were offering him a long term max contract. Why would he join a non-playoff team and be accused of putting up empty stats to prove nothing to his doubters? Cousins also offered to join the Lakers but was rejected.



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What hommerism? I've gone on record many times to say that I don't like the Cavaliers. I've never liked them. The only Cleveland team I ever liked was the Browns, and that's because I grew up in a football family. As soon as I moved to Boston for college, I became a Boston sports fan.

And because LeBron stated multiple times before the 2013-2014 season that he missed Cleveland and he always thought about going back. Not to mention, there were multiple players, including one of his best friends, who stated he never wanted to leave Cleveland in the first place and was always planning on returning after he finally won a ring. He won 2 in Miami. There was no reason for him to continue staying with Miami. It wouldn't have mattered what shape the Miami roster was in, he was going to Cleveland one way or another.
Your homerism for Lebron. You really think Lebron would return to Cleveland if they didn't have a better situation to trade for Kevin Love to create another 'big 3'? Why did you pick and choose which to believe and which is false pretense? Casual stan is casual.



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They are very dissimilar. Again, one got theirs through trades. The other didn't. That's a huge difference. I don't know how you aren't understanding this.
I am saying the end result is the same. But people are bitching about Warriors hoarding all the good players while ignoring Raptors got star players together too. They would have a case if the Bucks won instead. The secondary point was people like to bitch about 'super teams' when one is formed via free agency.



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Giving up DeRozen is not a "low ball price". At this point you're just spouting nonsense. And not to mention, they TRADED FOR HIM. That alone takes away any similarity to your original point.

Who did they sign? Lowry? Okay, that was a while ago so no. Ibaka? No, they got him through trades. Danny Green? Also through trades. Siakam? No, they drafted him. VanVleet? No, they drafted him (yeah, I get that they technically didn't. I seriously doubt they expected him to be the player he became).
If Kawhi didn't want out of Spurs, would anyone trade Kawhi + a starter to match salary for DeRozan? That's like saying obtaining Lebron or Harden via trade using Lilard isn't a low ball price.



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Because they traded for them.

What part of this are you not understanding?
Which is my point exactly. They didn't like players having more agency in today's game. People like to bitch about 'super teams' yet play ignorance about the Raptors forming one because 'trade'.


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This is why you are on the ignore list and will continue to remain there. You keep repeating yourself and aren't getting the very core concept that is killing your argument. You can't compare the two because how they occurred is drastically different. How it occurred is what's making everyone angry about it. That's why people hate the Warriors.

Your logic basically states that a person who kills in cold blood is the same as someone who kills in self defense. That's how bad your logic is. Not even gonna read your last part of the post. I'm sure it's something equally as stupid as the rest of this post.

Going back to ignoring you. Thought I'd give you a bone and see what other nonsense you've been spouting and now I'm regretting wasting my time on you. Besides, it looks like JM's got it covered.
How it occurred, basically free agency is what make people mad, which is my point. I keep repeating myself because you ignore things that don't fit your argument. You basically just admitted to my point that people hating on Warriors or Lebron is due to more player agency.

Your analogy is dumb. So winning a championship is killing someone? So if that is the case why does it matter if it is in cold blood or in self defense when the goal is to kill someone?

You can keep ignoring me like the casual you are. Mr. Durant made Draymond shoot worse at open 3s.
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post #2355 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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I'm too lazy to pull up the stats but I remember looking at it before, Embiids numbers were close, if not better than Davis', and that's huge considering the minutes restriction for Embiid, and the fact that he had to share the court with Butler, Redick, Simmons, and Harris.
Well your laziness backfired then, because Embiid played more minutes than Davis did on a per game basis.

Embiid: 33.7 MPG in 2018-2019 season.
Davis: 33.0 MPG in 2018-2019 season.

And this is while also playing less games. So if they were calculated on the same amount of games played (and Embiid played 8 more), his minutes per game average would be smaller. So yeah, not a minutes restriction, at least not compared to Davis.

And what, so Davis is unproven but Joel Embiid isn't? So far Embiid has played in the playoffs twice, and in both instances, he was outed in the second round, all while playing in underwhelming fashion. His stats? Down across the board in nearly all statistical categories. Davis on the other hand played dominant basketball in the playoffs and showcased a much greater all around game than Embiid did.

I'm still waiting on your argument regarding how Harden's a better player than Davis btw.



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post #2356 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:44 PM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Originally Posted by FriedTofu View Post
Does that mean regardless of how he was performing, Gasol has to be perceived as such and was traded as such?

Iguodala was obtained via trade? Jerebko and Livingston were back up players signed via free agency. Raptors did sign Biyombo and Turkoglu in the past via free agency too even if the latter didn't pan out. Warriors had to trade away two starters with one of them being a younger player to clear cap space for Durant too. Think they also had to give up their back up big in Ezili as well. Cousins played a half season. As for drafting versus trades, if Raptors didn't draft well, they wouldn't be able to execute said trades. GSW did something similar via 'trading' away Barnes for Durant.
oooooo another nice twist, pal. But no, wrong. Sorry to say but Gasol didn't net nearly the return as San Antonio got for Leonard. He did get similar return as Ibaka though. You know, a roll player.

If you're counting a sign and trade for Iggy as being acquired via trade then lol @ you.

Biyombo also left as a UFA. Not sure why he's being mentioned here. He was a roll player who left 2 years ago.

NONE OF THIS EVEN MATTERS THO AS THE FACT STILL REMAINS THAT TORONTO ACQUIRED MOST OF THEIR CHAMPIONSHIP ROSTER THROUGH TRADE AND THE REST THROUGH THE DRAFT AND GOLDEN STATE ACQUIRED THEIRS THROUGH DRAFT AND FREE AGENTS.

If you still can't see the difference between constructing a team through draft and trade and building a good chunk of your team through UFAs then I don't know what to tell you. You're just helpless I guess. Then again, you don't seem to be talking about this much anymore and are changing your story to random other crap that really has nothing to do with anything.

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post #2357 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 12:33 AM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

the overhead shots from today were insane.

What a mass of humanity.
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post #2358 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 04:27 AM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Well your laziness backfired then, because Embiid played more minutes than Davis did on a per game basis.

Embiid: 33.7 MPG in 2018-2019 season.
Davis: 33.0 MPG in 2018-2019 season.

And this is while also playing less games. So if they were calculated on the same amount of games played (and Embiid played 8 more), his minutes per game average would be smaller. So yeah, not a minutes restriction, at least not compared to Davis.

And what, so Davis is unproven but Joel Embiid isn't? So far Embiid has played in the playoffs twice, and in both instances, he was outed in the second round, all while playing in underwhelming fashion. His stats? Down across the board in nearly all statistical categories. Davis on the other hand played dominant basketball in the playoffs and showcased a much greater all around game than Embiid did.

I'm still waiting on your argument regarding how Harden's a better player than Davis btw.
Embiid 27.5 PPG, 13.6 boards vs Davis' 25.9 PPG and 12 boards. Davis with the slight edge in assists and blocks but let's not take away from Embiid having to share the floor with the likes of Butler, Harris, Redick, and Simmons and he still has higher boards and PPG. Davis played less games than Embiid, which is even less impressive. Playing more games and maintaining higher averages is far more impressive. Let's not act like an 8 game differential isn't a big deal either because that's almost 1/10th of the season. So congrats, you're completely wrong on this end of the argument.

Embiid, 2 playoff appearances, in 3 seasons played in the league. The one missed playoff appearance, he played 31 games in that season, shouldn't even count. Embiid lost this year to the CHAMPIONS, in GAME 7, to a GAME WINNER, by arguably the best player in the league at the moment. You look silly discrediting that in the slightest.

I really have to argue why a guy who's made the post-season every year since he got in the NBA, just came off a season average 36 PPG, the 2018 MVP winner, is better than a guy who has accomplished absolutely nothing in the NBA? lolwut I really don't understand what Davis has done in order for people to have this huge love boner for him.

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post #2359 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 06:17 AM
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Originally Posted by Raye View Post
Embiid 27.5 PPG, 13.6 boards vs Davis' 25.9 PPG and 12 boards. Davis with the slight edge in assists and blocks but let's not take away from Embiid having to share the floor with the likes of Butler, Harris, Redick, and Simmons and he still has higher boards and PPG. Davis played less games than Embiid, which is even less impressive. Playing more games and maintaining higher averages is far more impressive. Let's not act like an 8 game differential isn't a big deal either because that's almost 1/10th of the season. So congrats, you're completely wrong on this end of the argument.
Actually I'm not. The PPG average doesn't look all that impressive when you consider the fact that Davis has a significantly better FG% than Embiid.

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Embiid, 2 playoff appearances, in 3 seasons played in the league. The one missed playoff appearance, he played 31 games in that season, shouldn't even count. Embiid lost this year to the CHAMPIONS, in GAME 7, to a GAME WINNER, by arguably the best player in the league at the moment. You look silly discrediting that in the slightest.
Yes, I'm going to discredit it. The man was struggling to remain consistent against an out of prime Marc Gasol. And if I shouldn't use the first playoff year against Embiid, then I'd argue there's a few years you shouldn't use against Davis to discredit him.

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I really have to argue why a guy who's made the post-season every year since he got in the NBA, just came off a season average 36 PPG, the 2018 MVP winner, is better than a guy who has accomplished absolutely nothing in the NBA? lolwut I really don't understand what Davis has done in order for people to have this huge love boner for him.
Yes, you do. The man is a notoriously bad defensive player and has a great number of disappointing playoff exits on his resume. I don't care how many times he's made it to the playoffs (especially when he has consistently had a better supporting cast than Davis ever did), it is absolutely laughable to claim that he is a better player because of that despite the fact that there is one end of the floor that Davis absolutely rapes him in.



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post #2360 of 2623 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 07:10 AM
 
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Re: RAPTORS ARE NBA CHAMPIONS *aka DRAKE WINS*

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Actually I'm not. The PPG average doesn't look all that impressive when you consider the fact that Davis has a significantly better FG% than Embiid.



Yes, I'm going to discredit it. The man was struggling to remain consistent against an out of prime Marc Gasol. And if I shouldn't use the first playoff year against Embiid, then I'd argue there's a few years you shouldn't use against Davis to discredit him.



Yes, you do. The man is a notoriously bad defensive player and has a great number of disappointing playoff exits on his resume. I don't care how many times he's made it to the playoffs (especially when he has consistently had a better supporting cast than Davis ever did), it is absolutely laughable to claim that he is a better player because of that despite the fact that there is one end of the floor that Davis absolutely rapes him in.
If you want to overrate players with zero accolades, that's all you. James Harden is one of the best offensive players in the NBA with the stats to prove it. Not everybody can win the NBA Championship, but 16 teams make the playoffs. There's not a single year where Harden's team should have won the championship over any of the previous champs, during his tenure in Houston. Call his playoff shortcomings what you will but at least the man carries Houston in high regard as one of the top teams in the NBA. That's what a top player does. Look at what Giannis is doing with Milwaukee. By no means is Milwaukee carrying a weak supporting cast to Giannis but a real superstar elevates his team, and people did not expect in the beginning of the season for the Bucks to make the impact they did, and be atop of the East. That's a top 5 player going to work, having an MVP calibre year.

Pointless arguing any further, I'll let the Lakers season do the talking for me omegaLUL.

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