Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring? - Page 11 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #101 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:33 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

I always thought he was much better on the indys. Still wasn't top 5 of that Era, but he caught my attention.

I think there are certain restrictions/rules where great workers come across flat on the mainstage. I would change the channel with Dean Ambrose in the WWe but his NJPW stuff so far has been great.
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post #102 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:40 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

I don't mind Rollins in the ring but his selling is awful much like Charlotte Flair.
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post #103 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

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Originally Posted by MEMS View Post
Cut the crap he does the same exact thing Seth did last night. Donít use kayfabe broken ribs as an out. All those matches with Okada were 40 plus minutes of huge spot after huge spot with the same kind of selling you see everywhere now. The NXT guys same deal. And donít get wrong Iím fine with it because itís entertaining as hell but thatís so blatantly dishonest to praise Kenny in the same breath as trashing Seth. Theyíre so similar. Because one is Mr WWE and the other is the darling of the ďcool indy sceneĒ.
I'm not that well versed with Omega's stuff, but some of the little stuff he's done was really well done.

I saw one match with Tanahashi where his leg got worked so he did a one legged moonsault, and the Okada match, when it was deep into the match, he just fell from exhaustion and couldn't take the rainmaker. Again, I'm not THAT familiar with Omega's stuff, I'm sure he's done egregious shit, but little stuff like that I've never seen Rollins employ.
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post #104 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 10:17 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

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Originally Posted by AlternateDemise View Post



Jesus christ this is even worse than your other post. First off what you just described is storytelling, not psychology. Second, this entire post is strawman arguing at its finest.

Rollins is a man whose finisher revolves around slamming the opponents head into the mat. And he's a dangerous striker with his feet and knees, as he has proven in the past. So please, do not tell us that he needed to do multiple suicide dives into a man who is 280+ pounds of almost pure muscle and a frog splash onto the man while he was on the announcers table. If Seth had any regard for actual storytelling and making what was happening look convincing, he wouldn't have done a frog splash onto the announcers table. He would have went onto the other one, and hit Lesnar with the curb stomp onto the table. Targeting the head was the best bet, since that is the main point of impact with the Curb Stomp anyways (you know, that move he used to beat him with...twice). Rollins never gave any ounce of a shit about telling a legitimate story in that match. He went for the big spots that made no sense, and quite frankly, that entire match can be summed up with that very sentence. A bunch of big spots that made no sense.

Guts/Heart stories can lead to terrific matches. But when it's done in a way that is straight up illogical, it simply doesn't work. And here, it doesn't work. And the reaction from a lot of fans to this match is a clear indication of that. Don't call it bias or being blind. You're committing the act of being both of those things if you're sitting there with a straight face telling us that a man with broken ribs using his stomach to fight someone could possibly work in any scenario.
Actually he does with Lesnar, he HAS to wear Brock down to where he is able to hit those moves because if not a fresh Lesnar will just counter attacks to his head(duh) and he DID use the flying knee to the head etc as well, WHEN he had him dazed and unable to see it coming/do something about it. If you punch someone 10-20 times in the gut, you're not gonna expect the next punch to be coming at your head either...again psychology it's how humans work, even super humans as they are presented as.. probably news to you though? It actually involves wrestling strategy/psychology. People are way more prone to take damage to the mid-section than they are to the head for obvious reason, you will always, unless you're a moron protect your head more than most other parts of your body so building up to the offense going to the main target of your attack is exactly that, psychology..again too advanced for the average wrestling fan to understand, that is obvious so probably wasting my time as usual.

The massive frog splash spot is a calculated risk and/or desperation which again is in the psychology of the match feeling he has to do anything and everything to weaken him so he won't be able to see the head/neck attacks coming. Could he have worked over the head/neck a bit more after he had him weakened BEFORE the stomp? Sure, but to say it's not psychology based or even suggest he wasn't selling the ribs is laughable and ignorant.


Ohh and it's wrestling it's not reality, it's like superheroes fighting, that's exactly how WRESTLING has always been presented, people being able to do superhuman things and overcome superhuman obstacles, it's a spectacle so trying to compare it to real life is just mind-boggling and a horrible attempt at justifying your own bias because you don't like something.


The opponent also factors into how you approach the match, if you're the stronger guy you don't have to break the opponent down as much, you can do way more straight forward attacking, against a beast you can't just focus all your attack on the head it will never work because you'll never hit anything as you never weaken him enough to take the blows. You know what would be retarded? If Lesnar just ate the head attacks fresh as a daisy simply because Rollins main offense and finisher only revolves around the head and neck

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post #105 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 10:40 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

Seth was great in The Shield. After that-- not so much. Can't believe this guy beat Lesnar (TWICE).



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post #106 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:09 PM
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

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Actually he does with Lesnar, he HAS to wear Brock down to where he is able to hit those moves because if not a fresh Lesnar will just counter attacks to his head(duh) and he DID use the flying knee to the head etc as well, WHEN he had him dazed and unable to see it coming/do something about it. If you punch someone 10-20 times in the gut, you're not gonna expect the next punch to be coming at your head either...again psychology it's how humans work even super humans as they are presented as.. probably news to you though?
Enough. Just stop already. You're basically trying to tell me that the reason it works here is because Lesnar would never expect Rollins to attack in a way that involved using a literal broken part of his body.

Yeah, no fucking shit he wouldn't expect that, because the act of doing so is completely illogical. You are causing more harm to yourself than you are to your opponent, because unlike your opponent, your body part is already broken. Think about what you are saying here.

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Originally Posted by JustAName View Post
It actually involves wrestling strategy/psychology. People are way more prone to take damage to the mid-section than they are to the head for obvious reason, you will always, unless you're a moron protect your head more than most other parts of your body so building up to the offense going to the main target of your attack is exactly that
How does this apply to a situation where Lesnar is lying down on an announcers table? The situation we are discussing here does not apply to what you are saying. Again, you're just proving my point.

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psychology..again too advanced for the average wrestling fan to understand, that is obvious so probably wasting my time as usual.
No, that is not psychology. That is storytelling. Don't try to tell me I'm an average fan and that this is too much for me to comprehend when you can't even get your definitions correct.

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The massive frog splash spot is a calculated risk and/or desperation which again is in the psychology of the match feeling he has to do anything and everything to weaken him so he won't be able to see the head/neck attacks coming.
You are now resorting to just using terms that don't even apply to actual parts of the match. Either learn what in-ring psychology is or stop using the term. And regardless of which ever you choose to do, stop pretending the frog splash has any actual basis on storytelling, because in order for it to be valid, there has to be a very logical reason for it.

And news flash, a man whose head is so beaten to the point where he's basically concussed isn't going to be able to defend his head all that well in a fight. And in an opportunity where Rollins could give him even more than that, he chose to go for something that WOULD end up causing him more pain than Lesnar. It was an illogical move on his end. Again, don't try to pretend that this was a case of him taking a risk and it paying off. It was completely illogical. You can't argue your way around it.

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Could he have worked over the head/neck a bit more after he had him weakened BEFORE the stomp? Sure, but to say it's not psychology based or even suggest he wasn't selling the ribs is laughable and ignorant.
Rollins dove out of the ring, hit Lesnar while propelling himself in a straight line, ran back into the ring, did it again, and went for it a third time, all while showing no ill effects on the part of what were supposed to be broken ribs.

It's not laughable and ignorant to suggest he no sold the broken ribs, and I'm not suggesting it. I'm stating he did it, because that's literally what happened. To deny that is laughable and ignorant.

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Ohh and it's wrestling it's not reality, it's like superheroes fighting, that's exactly how WRESTLING has always been presented, people being able to do superhuman things and overcome superhuman obstacles, it's a spectacle so trying to compare it to real life is just mind-boggling and a horrible attempt at justifying your own bias because you don't like something.
Don't pull the "wrestling ain't real" argument on me. Just don't. This is the ultimate form of straw grasping. You and I both know very well that in any other situation with any other different wrestler, you would not be making this argument. You are trying to justify Rollins doing something unbelievably stupid. That's all this is. I do not care that wrestling is script. I do not care that Wrestling is about overcoming obstacles and what not. And just an FYI, that is not what Pro Wrestling is. Pro Wrestling is storytelling. It always has and it always will be. And in storytelling, unless it is specifically stated otherwise, realism and logic plays a part. There was no realism and logic here. To even attempt to use the idea that wrestling isn't real in an argument like this is literally the equivalent of saying my dad could beat up your dad. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

And to make things worse, your entire argument was just destroyed with this point. You just said it yourself, wrestling isn't real. It's basically superheroes overcoming obstacles. So why should realism and logic matter? Why should it matter if Rollins is able to hit Lesnar so many times in the head without Lesnar being able to stop it? So what if that's stupid? You're sitting here trying to defend a guy doing a frog splash through a table with broken ribs, which is literally the equivalent of a guy doing an elbow drop with a broken elbow.

I'm not reading the rest of your post. This is easily one of the more baffling posts I've read this entire year, to the point where it's actually given me a headache. Learn what in-ring psychology is (because you have no idea what it is and don't even try to pretend that you do, you'll just make things worse for yourself) and understand what selling is because you clearly don't know what that is either. If you don't want to do either of those things, then I would suggest not responding to this post, because you are only going to make things worse for yourself if you do.
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post #107 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:43 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

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I remember that Seth Rollins was considered a good wrestler especially with his selling by many. I haven't been watching for a while but what happened?
1. Hes been the top full time guy all year

2. He had a bad 2 weeks on Twitter

3. Folk think the Becky storyline made him look like a "cuck"
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post #108 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:44 PM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

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Enough. Just stop already. You're basically trying to tell me that the reason it works here is because Lesnar would never expect Rollins to attack in a way that involved using a literal broken part of his body.

Yeah, no fucking shit he wouldn't expect that, because the act of doing so is completely illogical. You are causing more harm to yourself than you are to your opponent, because unlike your opponent, your body part is already broken. Think about what you are saying here.



How does this apply to a situation where Lesnar is lying down on an announcers table? The situation we are discussing here does not apply to what you are saying. Again, you're just proving my point.



No, that is not psychology. That is storytelling. Don't try to tell me I'm an average fan and that this is too much for me to comprehend when you can't even get your definitions correct.



You are now resorting to just using terms that don't even apply to actual parts of the match. Either learn what in-ring psychology is or stop using the term. And regardless of which ever you choose to do, stop pretending the frog splash has any actual basis on storytelling, because in order for it to be valid, there has to be a very logical reason for it.

And news flash, a man whose head is so beaten to the point where he's basically concussed isn't going to be able to defend his head all that well in a fight. And in an opportunity where Rollins could give him even more than that, he chose to go for something that WOULD end up causing him more pain than Lesnar. It was an illogical move on his end. Again, don't try to pretend that this was a case of him taking a risk and it paying off. It was completely illogical. You can't argue your way around it.



Rollins dove out of the ring, hit Lesnar while propelling himself in a straight line, ran back into the ring, did it again, and went for it a third time, all while showing no ill effects on the part of what were supposed to be broken ribs.

It's not laughable and ignorant to suggest he no sold the broken ribs, and I'm not suggesting it. I'm stating he did it, because that's literally what happened. To deny that is laughable and ignorant.



Don't pull the "wrestling ain't real" argument on me. Just don't. This is the ultimate form of straw grasping. You and I both know very well that in any other situation with any other different wrestler, you would not be making this argument. You are trying to justify Rollins doing something unbelievably stupid. That's all this is. I do not care that wrestling is script. I do not care that Wrestling is about overcoming obstacles and what not. And just an FYI, that is not what Pro Wrestling is. Pro Wrestling is storytelling. It always has and it always will be. And in storytelling, unless it is specifically stated otherwise, realism and logic plays a part. There was no realism and logic here. To even attempt to use the idea that wrestling isn't real in an argument like this is literally the equivalent of saying my dad could beat up your dad. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

And to make things worse, your entire argument was just destroyed with this point. You just said it yourself, wrestling isn't real. It's basically superheroes overcoming obstacles. So why should realism and logic matter? Why should it matter if Rollins is able to hit Lesnar so many times in the head without Lesnar being able to stop it? So what if that's stupid? You're sitting here trying to defend a guy doing a frog splash through a table with broken ribs, which is literally the equivalent of a guy doing an elbow drop with a broken elbow.

I'm not reading the rest of your post. This is easily one of the more baffling posts I've read this entire year, to the point where it's actually given me a headache. Learn what in-ring psychology is (because you have no idea what it is and don't even try to pretend that you do, you'll just make things worse for yourself) and understand what selling is because you clearly don't know what that is either. If you don't want to do either of those things, then I would suggest not responding to this post, because you are only going to make things worse for yourself if you do.
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post #109 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 01:01 AM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

He's not the greatest and his finisher is just pure laziness
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post #110 of 142 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 02:07 AM
 
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Re: Is it time to admit that Rollins sucks in the ring?

The lack of logic, selling and psychology makes most modern wrestling unwatchable. Rollins is by no means only offender, but he's one of the worst.
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