How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler? - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

I'm not saying this in a condescending way, i just don't get it.
- he doesn't have that wow factor to his moveset like a Ricochet, not much in the way of high flying moves, which a good percentage of guys his size or even bigger have mastered nowadays.
- his style isn't as believable as a Daniel Bryan's, moreover he frequently no sells.
- he does these submission holds but he's so small and skinny they hardly look devastating.

I'll give him his due, he has genuine likeability to him, It's not like Sami Zayn's forced likeability a couple years ago, but he's been featured way too prominently and when you look at It, he's been outperformed by guys like Andrade, Black, and Ricochet.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:11 AM
 
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

He's not. He's pretty bad. But for whatever reason, people take what Dave Meltzer says seriously.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:13 AM
 
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

He's a really good worker, possibly the best they have. And if you say he no sells everything, you should watch his matches with Almas, the match with Black, and the first two with Ciampa last year. His selling in those matches was great.

But this is very much a "what have you done for me lately business" and the problem is that since the second match with Ciampa (with the Black match excepted) he's been put in these increasingly ridiculous situations since then where he's playing this superman character that tanks everything but that just isn't who he is. Hopefully he can go back to what got him over in the first place now that it looks like he's done with NXT.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:17 AM
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

I suggest you watch his matches with Almas.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by They Call Him Y2J View Post
I suggest you watch his matches with Almas.
I did, i felt Almas had the better showing.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:25 AM
 
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

What are you talking about?
Gargano is the best in-ring wrestler in WWE.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 12:12 PM
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
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Last edited by utvolzac; 08-11-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utvolzac View Post
Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Perfectly said. I liked Johnny Kickout more when he was in DIY, before he gained the survivability of the T-1000.

This video game wrestling is getting out of hand even compared to the last couple years, it used to be guy 1 gets hit with superkick, no-sells, hits guy 2 with lariat, then they both fall down and sell, in the beginning of the third fall Cole hit him with a pump kick, he bounced off the ropes, Cole hits him with a superkick, he bounced off the ropes again, hits Cole with a lariat, they both go down, Johnny immediately stands up and grabs a kendo stick, like WTF?!

WWE needs to impose health bars onto the screen so we can actually get a visual indicator that this shit is hurting them.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 12:36 PM
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utvolzac View Post
Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Uh.....you realize this ain't real right? Besides I like that aspect of Johnny, the never say die attitude that you can form an emotional attachment to the man.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 12:37 PM
 
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Re: How is Johnny Gargano that good of a wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utvolzac View Post
Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Yes I agree with nearly everything you said especially the great storytelling of Pete Dunne psychology used in the triple threat match. I just think in a kayfabe sense ever since what Johnny put himself through with Ciampa I think he just got more durable, and also that spot when he got himself DQ in the first fall of the match see back then he would have never did that but once again after the Ciampa all that change what I'M trying to say is that he grew as a character and is way more resilient to things now cause all the trauma he delt with in his past career in NXT. Like the ladder match he had with AOP and all those hardcore matches he had with Ciampa. But just my opinion what do you think?
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