John Cena Doesn’t See One Single Person as the Face of WWE Going Forward - Page 8 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #71 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 12:54 AM
 
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Re: John Cena Doesn’t See One Single Person as the Face of WWE Going Forward

I actually am a fan of John Cena, but in the traditional sense. I do find his comments a bit scary though. If WWE thinks this way I completely see why the company can't make stars anymore. Cena is WRONG and he failed to see the problems his reign caused on pro wrestling.

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Originally Posted by MarkOfAllMarks View Post
Did he really say "individual effort"... as if to say he was the main attraction and no one else mattered. As if to say no one else on the roster was putting in the same amount of effort. John Cena was a manufactured star remember that. He was CHOSEN by Vince and was forced to the point where he was getting more boos then cheers. John Cena way overstayed his welcome. I would understand if he was universally loved that would be a different story. People loved Hulk Hogan he was a hero to many people growing up during that time. When Hogan got stale he turned heel and he changed up his character like any sane person would do. Cena did the same old shit 11 years. Stone Cold was not hand picked, he was just a badass and the crowd loved him, probably one of the most loved wrestlers of all time. It's fucking hard to find someone who was not a fan of Stone Cold. Cena was not loved as a top guy like those guys were. When 80% of the audience hates your guts you know you done fucked up, and you fucking suck.
This idea that Hogan was universally loved is misleading. Hogan no doubt had haters and they were fans of the NWA and AWA. Hogan just had THE MOST fans and Vince built around him. I think this is what guys like Cena and perhaps current WWE fail to realize. You could be face of the company, but not universally liked. All you got to be is THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE or LIKED on the roster.

The WWE also having a monopoly will take all the heat with the champion, but then comes the argument about the brand split. Isn't the argument is that the brand split is suppose to have more people being over? That the two champions are better than one?

This is not the case because the fans will always see one champion as the real champion over the other. This goes back to my point above about Hogan in his prime. MAJORITY fans saw him as the real champion over guys like Flair or Rick Martel etc.

The FOTC is who fans recognize most from the organization. You can't get around this no matter how much you try to create a roster full of people. The human mind and perception will always associate one or two people at most with the wrestling organization because it is just easier to remember.

When you ask someone to name something from wrestling do they not mention really one or two wrestlers? It's just easier to consume.




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Originally Posted by aliasocfan View Post
Having a ~group effort is great and all, but there's always one at the top. They are struggling to find a new one because Vince is a stubborn old man. (this probably goes without saying now)
He refuses to pay attention to who is getting the best reaction from crowds and pushing them. He decides who should be getting a reaction and then pushes them.

True. Very well said.

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Originally Posted by oleanderson89 View Post
The word is overused bullshit in WWE context especially in the case of Cena. Majority of the fans hated Cena and a bigger portion stopped watching sick of seeing him at the top.

He is describing himself that way just like WWE did to cover up the overwhelming dislike that fans had for him for many years.
Yeah, the polarizing figure concept was WWE marketing nothing more and nothing less for his reactions. They didn't care what the reactions were as they just made the decision that Cena was the man and the fans had to deal with it.

The WWE took this attitude in the era because they didn't have competition. No way Vince would have kept Cena the way he was if there was competition for fans to switch the channel.

It was smart initially how they marketed Cena as polarizing. I believe Cena could have actually been bigger if they actually listened to what the audience was actually telling them, but they wanted to stick to one narrative only with Cena.

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Originally Posted by Mifune Jackson View Post
Except pro-wrestling is framed within the context of competition. If it's just a show of people cutting scripted promos and wrestling meaningless matches for the opportunity to wrestle for the world title in the middle of the show at WrestleMania, then you remove the entire premise for pro-wrestling.

In any sport, there needs to be a "Michael Jordan" or people trying to be the "Next Michael Jordan" otherwise there's no stakes.

Completely true. Just the premise of having a tier of titles creates the expectation of viewers to assume there is a top guy. There is no way around this without just downgrading the roster. You either love or hate the top guy in terms of the majority of the audience which sets the tone for the whole card/show/wrestlers.
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post #72 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 04:19 AM
 
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There isn't a single massive star in WWE because they've pushed the wrong people and let their own bias get in the way.

They had Matt Hardy, who was the biggest star in the industry in 2016/17,yet didn't push him. They had Bully Ray as well yet didn't let him off his leash. Braun Strowman and Rusev have yet to win the world title or a Royal Rumble. The Wyatt family were massively over, yet Bray didn't dominate the world title scene.

Just look at the last several Royal Rumbles -

2012 - Sheamus, Jericho should have won.
2013 - Cena, Ryback should have won.
2014 - Batista, Ambrose should have won.
2015 - Roman Reigns, Rusev should have won.
2016 - HHH, Bray Wyatt should have won.
2017 - Randy Orton, Braun Strowman should have won.
2018 - Nakamura, Matt Hardy should have won.
2019 - Rollins, Drew McIntyre should have won.

The only year they haven't booked 9ne of their favourites to win was 2018 when Nakamura won due to fan backlash and then they buried him after.

Roman will probably win it next year.
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post #73 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by the_flock View Post
There isn't a single massive star in WWE because they've pushed the wrong people and let their own bias get in the way.

They had Matt Hardy, who was the biggest star in the industry in 2016/17,yet didn't push him. They had Bully Ray as well yet didn't let him off his leash. Braun Strowman and Rusev have yet to win the world title or a Royal Rumble. The Wyatt family were massively over, yet Bray didn't dominate the world title scene.

Just look at the last several Royal Rumbles -

2012 - Sheamus, Jericho should have won.
2013 - Cena, Ryback should have won.
2014 - Batista, Ambrose should have won.
2015 - Roman Reigns, Rusev should have won.
2016 - HHH, Bray Wyatt should have won.
2017 - Randy Orton, Braun Strowman should have won.
2018 - Nakamura, Matt Hardy should have won.
2019 - Rollins, Drew McIntyre should have won.

The only year they haven't booked 9ne of their favourites to win was 2018 when Nakamura won due to fan backlash and then they buried him after.

Roman will probably win it next year.
You want Drew to win who doesn't get reaction over someone who gets reaction (Rollins)? What is wrong with you.
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post #74 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless Viper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_flock View Post
There isn't a single massive star in WWE because they've pushed the wrong people and let their own bias get in the way.

They had Matt Hardy, who was the biggest star in the industry in 2016/17,yet didn't push him. They had Bully Ray as well yet didn't let him off his leash. Braun Strowman and Rusev have yet to win the world title or a Royal Rumble. The Wyatt family were massively over, yet Bray didn't dominate the world title scene.

Just look at the last several Royal Rumbles -

2012 - Sheamus, Jericho should have won.
2013 - Cena, Ryback should have won.
2014 - Batista, Ambrose should have won.
2015 - Roman Reigns, Rusev should have won.
2016 - HHH, Bray Wyatt should have won.
2017 - Randy Orton, Braun Strowman should have won.
2018 - Nakamura, Matt Hardy should have won.
2019 - Rollins, Drew McIntyre should have won.

The only year they haven't booked 9ne of their favourites to win was 2018 when Nakamura won due to fan backlash and then they buried him after.

Roman will probably win it next year.
You want Drew to win who doesn't get reaction over someone who gets reaction (Rollins)? What is wrong with you.
In fairness, Drew was the only Male roster member with any momentum towards the end of 2018. If they’d just carried that on to the Rumble instead of the weird switcharounds for January, we could’ve been looking at a proper WWE heel character to slay the Beast at WM (or challenge DB if they still wanted Rollins v Lesnar).
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post #75 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 11:46 AM
 
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Re: John Cena Doesn’t See One Single Person as the Face of WWE Going Forward

It should be like the Avengers and Justice League, everyone has their part to play in the bigger dynamic of things, then have their solo efforts, like stand alone movies, then mix and match etc, just who would be your Avengers team and Justice League team ups?

Things used to be more controlled back in the day before the tinternet man came along, and now media is EVERYWHERE...ALL THE TIME, so voices and views come thick and fast, just wait until WWE goes VR and AR all in, that will be different and mesmerizing!


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post #76 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mellison24 View Post
In fairness, Drew was the only Male roster member with any momentum towards the end of 2018. If they’d just carried that on to the Rumble instead of the weird switcharounds for January, we could’ve been looking at a proper WWE heel character to slay the Beast at WM (or challenge DB if they still wanted Rollins v Lesnar).
So heel vs heel? I don't think that would've work.
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post #77 of 77 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 01:25 PM
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kobe Re: John Cena Doesn’t See One Single Person as the Face of WWE Going Forward

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Originally Posted by validreasoning View Post
WCW talents were toxic at that time. 2003 flair, Hogan, Nash, Goldberg, Steiner, Piper were all involved either in ppv mainevents or major storylines and it all failed spectacularly. Fans simply didn't view the likes of Benoit or Eddie past a certain level (not Wrestlemania mainevent level) so pushing booker, rvd etc to mainevent wouldn't have work.
Great post by you, as usual, but I'm interested in clarification on the bolded point. Do you really think pushing RVD as a main eventer wouldn't have worked? I mean, we know how his only title run crashed and burned with the drug arrest, but do you believe it would have been a failure if that arrest had never happened?

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