Fair enough....but I refuse to be fooled into thinking this is a different company.
I mean really Capitol Sports, WWWF, WWF, WWE are the same entity. To say they are not well I don't agree.
You can slap a new name on anything but really what significant changes happened when they changed names?
Really the question was "is wrestling worse" and tons of folks came in and said we are at a low point. That's all I was addressing because that simply is not true.
Fact is the talent now is 100 times better. Compare talent even in 2009 to today, it is night and day. The WWE has signed pretty much all the indy talent outside of a few AEW stars.
This is the same old promotion it was in 63. But are we really complaining? I mean WM is like a Super Bowl attraction for cities trying to get it across America. I live in a city that just had the NFL draft and drew 600,000 people, most talk radio stations were calling for a Wrestlemania next, is wrestling that bad off? But yeah I remember when people were griping about wrestling sucking during the Monday Night Wars too, because it was not the territories....so there's that. Things are not that bad.
And today's Raw is light years better than the 70's product and especially the 80-83 product. I mean really in 1983 the WWF's 2 hour cable show was a talk show format.....a talk show
I know wrestling maybe in a lull in terms of story lines...but seriously the WWE is a juggernaut today, that even Roman cannot ruin. Today's WWE is easily as important as it was at it's peak in 84. And as a fan of the 84 WWF it pains me to admit that, but it's reality.
Proof? Look no further than the success of the Divas and Miz shows on USA.....unheard of success in any other time period. Plus the You Tube subscribers of any wrestling commentator.
Wrestling has gone viral, something it never has done before. But yeah 2019 is a low point.......
I would wager wrestling is in a better place now more than ever in spite of the naysayers. And in spite of my territory upbringing.
This coming from someone who has always thought the WWE was trash....lol. Gotta be honest.
Ok, I get what you mean by the changing of the name and so on doesn't mean it is not the same company. What I am getting at is that the culture of the company is not the same at all. It is why I said the WWE of 1998 I could see going straight up crushing competition like AEW, but THIS company I'm not so sure about. With that said, I still have my reservations about AEW.
Every company that has tried to go against Vince Mcmahon has failed since I have been watching BESIDES WCW. If we are being honest, WCW only BEAT WWF because they originally blurred the lines with fans making them think WWF was invading WCW. Then they used WWF made stars.
As for "is wrestling worse", I see you are speaking from the perspective of WWE being a more established franchise than ever before. That is really not in question. What is in question is the core product, fan apathy, and an aging creative department.
The talent conversation is always going to be debated on terms of how skilled they are, but what can't be disputed is whether the talent is drawing in people and making them invest their time. I think it is clear this roster just isn't cutting it. I know the defense mechanism is to say creative has them in shackles, but there is a big difference now and then. If the fans were into someone most of the times they would still get behind the wrestlers due to them being able to draw fans into them like a magnet.
I use the Undertaker for example. The guy had horrendous storylines at times in the 90's, but he would still be an attraction in 1994 because his character was simply liked. Diesel sucked as champion, BUT you could still see him grabbing people's attention even when he was about to leave(post Survivor Series 95 Diesel for example).
WWE creative has always been lacking in terms of sustaining characters and angles over a long period. I'd even wager long term wise WWE was never better than summer 97 to summer 98 and January 2000 to August 2000. The big difference I see is that regardless how inept creative may get the wrestlers were still able to understand how to get over with the audience.
This roster seems lost in terms of doing that and also come off as robotic. I have had friends who even comment to me that it seems like WWE doesn't even try anymore not come off fake on the screen. These are long time fans who back in the day would laugh at me when I would stick with Monday Night Raw over Nitro in 1997. I was able to actually explain how WWE was going to eventually take over and they did because of how the essence of the company would become with the new stars they were building.
RAW is light years in production from the 70's yes, BUT it is the same format that WWE changed into in 1997 when it went to 2 hours to battle Nitro. To some fans who started watching WWE in that time period they may tend to believe today's WWE has actually fallen off.
They are recycling concepts which is fine, but they can't have the concepts be blatantly inferior. One minute Roman is being pushed like Cena and then the next minute he is being pushed like Steve Austin. The fans can smell that what they are doing is not authentic in terms of when Austin was doing his gig it felt organic due to what really did happen with him in his career being blocked by management. Whether if it was true or not the fans bought into it.
WWE right now is going through what they did in 1993 to 1995 in trying to find the heir apparent of the mold they built with Hogan in Luger and Diesel. It failed miserably because the fans didn't buy it.
I can't honestly say this talent is 100 times better simply because they are being told to work more workrate into their matches. For example, who on this roster could put on a match like HBK vs UT did in 2009? NOBODY!
Who on the roster today is as over as Batista or John Cena were in 2009? NOBODY! Part of being a great talent is being able to garner heat even when the storyline sucks imo. The guys now may appeal to the niche workrate frenzy fans(which includes me btw), but they lack charisma, acting, and intensity that will make a viewer take time out to watch them instead of the million of other things that they could watch or do.
WWE today is a habit to a small audience in comparison to what they could be grabbing. The other thing is the WWE has made people lose faith in them and it has been going on this way for years now. This is why the ratings always drop big time after WM season.
The WWE depending on legends during the most important time of the year always gives the perception that the rest of the year is pointless along with its champions. The WWE signing up everyone doesn't mean it is better. We saw how WCW had way more talent depth than WWE, but they still ended up losing in the long run when everyone started to jump ship. In 1998, WWE had less depth on their roster than WCW. However, WWE still managed to compete and beat them in the ratings that year. They did so because the handful of guys they had knew how to captivate the audience.
Maybe 1984 was the peak, but notice how you are comparing WWE today of having the peak of a company over 30 years ago? I actually think the WWF peaked in 1987 (summer of 86 to WM 3 the WWF could never reach that hype and box office without Hogan/Orndorff/Andre/Piper) and was living on borrowed time in 1988 to 1990 until the bottom fell out in 1993.
This is how I see the current WWE. They have thrown everything at the wall to see what will stick since WM 30 and have not got this roster over in terms of trying to create a new era that prosperity. They have done things financially to cut corners and had boosts like the tv deal and Saudi deals.
They were hanging on the draw of Brock Lesnar and brought in Ronda to try to put over the current roster and it hasn't worked for the most part. The WWE use to be the star, but now they are using UFC to help them seem relevant.
The WWE right now is living off its glory of the Attitude Era and being the survivor of the Monday Night War. They gained the whole industry on Monday nights to themselves since WCW went under and have failed miserably in grabbing the total wrestling pie imo.
They are there doing this current financial business because they are the infrastructure of the industry which the 90's war built, but in no way is the current WWE any better than what they were 10 years ago.
As HBK said in his promo with Hogan in his feud with him. It has been the same ol' crap with a little glory sprinkled in (return of Rock, Cena, Lesnar, Bryan etc.).
As for Miz and The Divas show, I think shows like that are the reason why some of the wrestlers can't get over. It is overexposing the core product. It would be unheard of in any other time period because the WWF or other leagues would not give the green light to any show like that because of the fear of exposing the main product.
You think the WWE couldn't do a reality show with The Rock or Austin or Sable and not actually do bigger numbers than Miz or the Divas? The WWE doing those type of shows now imo has more to do with the main product not accessing new fans. They have to create these other outlets to get people to know the wrestlers today.
This was not a problem before because the wrestlers were seen as pop icons themselves that the mainstream was calling for their shows such as SNL. Pop culture today WWE is irrelevant and that is why there is fear that they will get exposed on FOX Sports as being irrelevant when the ratings will pinpoint Vince sold Fox a bridge under water.