Can 'cool' heels be considered as great heels? - Page 4 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

Its a chicken/egg sort of discussion for the WWE and heels vs faces. It works both ways for the WWE b/c for a heel to really get consistently and boo'd for the right reasons the crowd has to want to cheer the faces as well. If the fans don't want to cheer the face involved then they will cheer for who they think is the most entertaining. The way WWE books their heels and faces very much adds to the problem as well.

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:18 PM
 
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

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Originally Posted by StylesClash90 View Post
A Heel should always get boos not cheers they are supposed to be vile egomaniacs who draw a negative reception from the crowd at all costs, Cheating to win is the basic 101 form of being one until guys like Ric Flair and Eddie Guerrero were given a pass and with guys like the NWO being so popular made it the cool thing to cheer the bad guys, Kayfabe being killed off made it worse.

A Great Heel never gets cheered they actually succeed in getting heat every time they appear in or out of the ring.


hence why jinder mahal is a horribly underrated heel... he actually got booed! now, why they tried to have a heel who cheated to win almost every match appeal to indians who still largely root for wrestlers in kayfabe is another question for another day

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 03:55 PM
 
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

I dont think they can be "cool", heels need to be focused, obsessive and determined not laid back or easy going.

My favourite heels atm are:

1. Kassius Ohno (NXT UK). An 'insidious' type heel who can back up his promo - telling UK audiences that he is here to 'save' them from British sell out wrestlers who have forgotten their heritage - with in-ring skills, wins cleanly (for now) but will use brutality against unsuspecting opponents as an example to the fans.

2. Samoa Joe - Straight up brutal and uncaring with great mic skills and in-ring capability to back it up.

Last edited by LongPig666; 04-15-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:52 PM
 
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

I think a good heel needs to cheat and show that they cannot beat the face without help from something unfair (authority, interference, blinding the ref, etc). The example of KO leads me to booking. Great booking can save or enhance a mediocre heel. My below argument is that Jinder is a great heel, but was booked horribly. KO was a good heel, but booked great.

Even if a heel goes over, it should never be clean. Refer to Jonny v Ciampa.

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Not true at all. If asses stop filling seats, it's not working.

Jinder and Baron are awful example of successful heels, haha.
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Neither are successful heels. That is why attendance and ratings keep going down.
I can't believe I'm siding with @nWo4Lyfe420, but Jinder and Baron are very successful heels. Lousy ratings aren't the single and direct correlation to if a heel is good or not. Ratings were at an all time low when both Baron and Jinder weren't even on TV during the winter.

Jinder and Baron had more fans and smarks come together to shit on a wrestler than anyone else in the last 10 years. How WWE books a face against a great heel is as important as the heel themselves. WWE booked all the faces against Jinder to look like dumb and inadequate the who way through the feud. There's also overexposure. If a good heel is on TV for 30 minutes every episode, cuts a promo talking smack, then proceeds to dominate all the faces........well why should a fan continue booing him? Now you have the terminator and made it clear to fans no matter how much you want this guy beat, you're not going to get it.

WWE ruined Jinder, not Jinder. and I'll argue that forever.

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You should watch X-Pac vs Billy Kidman at Invasion 2001. Pac despite being a defacto face is still being shit on by the crowd. Also watch his whole WCW run I remember when Hall and Nash were getting cheered by the fans in WCW during a promo yet when Pac took the Mic it immediately turned to boos.
I agree Go Away heat does exist. I think in about 99% of the cases it's brought up it's not Go Away Heat. I've only witnessed it with 3 wrestlers: X Pac, Cena, and Roman.

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FUCK THIS COMPANY! FUCK ROMAN REIGNS! FUCK WWE! THIS WILL END WITH ROMAN BEATING UP THE HEELS AND THEN SCREAMING LIKE A DEMONICALLY POSSESSED LOLITA UINTIL OUR TV SCREENS BLOW UP!
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

Only the original cool heel, The Bad Guy Razor Ramon.
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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:59 PM
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

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Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
Only the original cool heel, The Bad Guy Razor Ramon.

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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:08 PM
 
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

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Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
Only the original cool heel, The Bad Guy Razor Ramon.
I would disagree with that because I couldnt tell the difference between him being a heel and face!
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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Re: Are 'cool' heels can be considered as a great heels?

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Heels are supposed to draw heat. For example when you see even smarks get worked by a guy like Baron Corbin you know he's doing a great job.


Top heel in the company right now. These marks don’t even know they’re being worked half the time.


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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:18 PM
 
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Re: Can 'cool' heels be considered as a great heels?

Yes, of course they can. They're just not heels anymore in the fans' eyes.

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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:26 PM
 
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Re: Are 'cool' heels can be considered as a great heels?

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Top heel in the company right now. These marks don’t even know they’re being worked half the time.
He's awesome at being that unentertaining and bland heel no one wants to see. Hats off to him!
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