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post #31 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:38 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
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I disagree with "Big Dave" on this one.

WWE has the talent and can do 5-hour shows, but I don't recommend it. The problem is that they won't book the right people.

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post #32 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:39 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

I'd reform the whole thing

Go back to the brand split for PPVs but make them two hours each, two and a half max.

SummerSlam, Survivor Series and Money in the Bank are cross brand and 3 hours, 4 absolute max.

For WrestleMania and the Royal Rumble move Takeover to the preceding weekend and have the main shows across 2 nights. Each night has a 1 hour pre-show and then 3-4 hour main show.
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post #33 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:40 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

Originally Posted by The Raw Smackdown View Post
Even if they did. WWE does NOT need to be doing 5 hour shows except for maybe Wrestlemania and even then..
I agree. I don't think I could ever do one thing for 5 hours. Seeing people show up at the stadium at 5 pm, knowing they'll be there for 7 hours....zetus lapetus.

As big as a fan as I am, having been to every Pittsburgh show for the past 5 years, 4+ hour shows turns me away. If free I would likely not go. That's so much of my time for such little pay off. If I knew it was going to be the greatest wrestling show in history, I would go for half of it.

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post #34 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:49 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

That's his opinion that I respectfully disagree with. The talent is there, they're just neutered by booking.

Besides, New Japan has a legitimate intermission and several throwaway matches where everyone not on the card is just put into a multi-man tag team match. The 'real' matches probably add up to about 2-3 hours of programming per show.

Hell even this year's Wrestle Kingdom had a fucking dire undercard. Dave just prefers the style so he doesn't feel the same way.

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post #35 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 09:55 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

The issue isn't talent, its pacing and structure. A 5 hour long show needs to end with something spectacular to keep the audience captivated. NJPW will typically have multiple great matches on a long card but usually they get progressively better.

The Rumble pretty much peaked with Becky's Rumble win and Brock/Balor, either one of those would have been fine endings to a lengthy show. If they are going to do 2 Rumbles every year one of them needs to open the show, sticking an hour long plus match in the middle of the card burns people out and kills great matches like AJ/Bryan.
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post #36 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:03 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

IMO it's not a lack of talent - they certainly have enough talent for 5 hour shows. The problem is the bad booking and overexposure. Where are the untalented people?: Brock/Balor, AJ/Bryan, Ronda/Sasha, Becky/Asuka, two Rumble matches that were filled with talent(there were some flubs in there for each Rumble, but there are those types of characters every year). Nakamura was on the pre-show and he's obviously talented enough to main event a Wrestle Kingdom.

Despite the length, the Rumble was still generally considered to be a quality show. Lots of predictable outcomes but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Dave should try to separate "not having enough talent" with "I'm too tired to stay up and finish this show".
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post #37 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:34 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

We do not need a 5 hour show for TV shows because that would overexpose all of the talent in the back and that would be a bad thing.

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post #38 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:38 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

He's right, in a sense. Their PPVs are much more comparable with NJPW from the standpoint that their are shows dominated by in-ring competition. Whereas their weekly TV has a lot of talk segments, backstage stuff, vignettes, and the like, the big shows are generally just match after match with short segments in-between. That's where this "people want to watch characters and gimmicks" stuff falls off of a cliff, because those characters and gimmicks need to be able to wrestle long matches on big shows.

I don't think Dave is giving fair credit to the WWE stars, though. A lot of them are much, much more talented than they're allowed to display on TV. I think their road agents, the guys putting matches together (rather than letting talent put their own matches together), are the ones choking the life out of the in-ring product. Everything in the ring is so formulaic, just like everything else about WWE. I'm not sure who is producing the main event matches in WWE but they need to retire and let someone who has a clue (like Tyson Kidd) do it because I honestly can't remember the last truly great main roster match in WWE.

If you want proof of this - look to NXT. NXT stars over the past several years have put on such a huge variety of wrestling that it's honestly crazy to think they're under the WWE umbrella at all. Ricochet wrestles like Ricochet, which is nothing like how Aleister Black wrestles, or Gargano, or Ciampa, or Adam Cole, and I can go on and on.

But I see the "hurr durr Meltzer makes things up plans change" crowd has already dropped a big steaming turd all over this thread without even considering discussing the point, so I guess I'll see myself out.
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post #39 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:51 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

5 hours is way too long for anybody.

Even a lot of NJPW shows that go long open with a few multi-man tag matches that can be easily skipped.

Part of what makes NXT TakeOvers great is that they don't overstay their welcome. They deliver big and wrap everything up within less than 3 hours. Bing, bang, boom, done.

But in a world where we have 3 hours Raw, 2 hour Smackdowns, and now 5 hour PPVs (7 if you count the preshow) and the whole thing is just exhausting. How can anyone be expected to dedicate that much time to the product?
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post #40 of 88 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 10:57 AM
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Re: WWE don't have the talent to do 5 hour shows : Dave Meltzer

The issue isn't the talent, its the writing and booking. That being said, a 5 hour show is too long. Hell, its brutal to make it thru 3 hours of RAW anymore.

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