“Talent” - Page 3 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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I see what you mean and understand the many dimensions wrestlers can be talented in. That doesn’t get to the core of it though.

Let’s take the Rock for example. He is talented on the mic... why do we say that? Because he’s entertaining. Why does that matter? Because our eyes are glued to the screen. Why does that matter? Because we’ll tune in to watch him. Why does that matter? So we listen to him when he says he’ll fight someone at a PPV. Why does that matter? So we give money to a business selling a scripted fight.

He’s selling a used car for a high price, and he can do so through his charisma on the mic.

As fans, as point to his mic skills... but as a whole, we only describe The Rock as talented if he can meet the 5 criteria for selling a scripted fight (compared to say, Enzo, who was talented on the mic but not a talented overall performer)
I would have to say that there’s more to selling a scripted fight than just talent and some of these aspects are not part of talent. Booking, the current interest in the product, hell even looks and appearance don’t count inside talent.

So it’s very hard to judge talent based on drawing power alone. Shawn Michaels for example is considered one of the most talented wrestlers of all time but his drawing power amounted to relatively little.

I think the best way to measure someone’s talent is in their ability to entertain and believe it or not, entertainment quality doesn’t always equal popular or draw for many reasons. There’s been plenty of highly entertaining or high quality things that don’t massively draw.

Edit: The purpose of a wrestler is to entertain. They are after all entertainers. So their talent should be judged based on their ability to entertain.

You don’t call a doctor talented due to how much money he makes for example. You call him talented based on how good he is at his job, which is you know, doctor stuff. Same goes for any occupation.
But under this definition, how talented is Enzo Amore?

I’m saying his overall talent is less, because he didn’t meet all 5 criteria of what it takes to “sell a scripted fight”.

1. Draw attention, viewers, interest
2. Draw money
3. Sell a future fight (promo, story situations, character investment)
4. Deliver on the fight (so they come back, and don’t feel cheated)
5. Perception of experiencing something important (because the alternative is awareness and unacceptance of being deceived in buying the scripted fight).

Enzo is talented in some areas, but not talented at all in other areas.

Overall, he has little talent.

Why?

He can’t sell scripted fights consistently - and that’s the ultimate goal. That’s why he needs to entertain. Being entertaining, I argue, is just a sub-category of talents or skills, to meet the broader end goal.

As a heel, he can work, because the babyface can sell everything else, so he has value... but he’s not a talented performer overall.

As for your doctor analogy... his ultimate goal is to sell his knowledge as something that can improve your health. If he’s excellent at researching in the lab, but terrible at diagnosing symptoms or communicating, is he a talented doctor?

Last edited by IronMan8; 08-27-2018 at 04:20 AM.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 04:23 AM
 
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Re: “Talent”

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Yeah that’s true too, but my analogy would be an excellent pastry chef vs an excellent steak chef.

The pastry chef has totally different skill set to the steak chef, but it doesn’t matter, because their talent ultimately falls under the broader category to “sell food”, which is the same end goal.

Wrestlers all have the same end goal of selling scripted fights, and use different techniques to make the sale.

At the end of the day, the WWE is a restaurant selling a range of different flavours, but the core business is selling food.

So a generalised meaning for “a talented wrestler”, like a talented chef, needs to focus mostly on the end product.

Hence “talent” is the broader ability to sell scripted fights, and the range of specific skills possible to achieve this goal don’t matter.

For example, is a pastry chef who is extremely skilful at certain cooking techniques, but nobody buys his food, talented?
Yes, that chef would be talented, skillful and talented are synonyms. What that chef wouldn't be is successful. Success and failure aren't reliant upon the level of talent somebody has. There are other contributing factors that affect the ability to succeed
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah that’s true too, but my analogy would be an excellent pastry chef vs an excellent steak chef.

The pastry chef has totally different skill set to the steak chef, but it doesn’t matter, because their talent ultimately falls under the broader category to “sell food”, which is the same end goal.

Wrestlers all have the same end goal of selling scripted fights, and use different techniques to make the sale.

At the end of the day, the WWE is a restaurant selling a range of different flavours, but the core business is selling food.

So a generalised meaning for “a talented wrestler”, like a talented chef, needs to focus mostly on the end product.

Hence “talent” is the broader ability to sell scripted fights, and the range of specific skills possible to achieve this goal don’t matter.

For example, is a pastry chef who is extremely skilful at certain cooking techniques, but nobody buys his food, talented?
Yes, that chef would be talented, skillful and talented are synonyms. What that chef wouldn't be is successful. Success and failure aren't reliant upon the level of talent somebody has. There are other contributing factors that affect the ability to succeed
Okay consider these two chefs:

1. The goal is to sell food, and this chef uses an extremely complex technique to produce food, but it tastes terrible so he doesn’t sell food

2. This chef uses a different technique altogether, a different form of complexity but not as difficult as the previous chef, yet the food is supremely delicious and exquisite that he can sell it for $200 per meal and everyone buys it

Both work for the same restaurant under the same external conditions relating to sales

Who is the more talented chef?

Last edited by IronMan8; 08-27-2018 at 05:14 AM.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 05:18 AM
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Re: “Talent”

Talent thy name is Daniel Bryan.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 05:52 AM
 
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Re: “Talent”

Watch a bottom of the barrel Indy scrub rassle.

Then watch Daniel Bryan rassle.

See the difference? That's called talent.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Watch a bottom of the barrel Indy scrub rassle.

Then watch Daniel Bryan rassle.

See the difference? That's called talent.
So, the ability to realistically portray a scripted fight?

Is The Rock not talented?
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 06:14 AM
 
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Re: “Talent”

I mean Enzo is talented to me. He entertains me with his mic skills and that’s the bottom line. So yeah, he is talented.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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I mean Enzo is talented to me. He entertains me with his mic skills and that’s the bottom line. So yeah, he is talented.
Well no, entertaining you with his mic skills is not the bottom line.

Getting you to pay to see him sell a scripted fight, many times a year, is the bottom line.

You could poll an audience on if they think Enzo was a talented WWE superstar and many would say no, so clearly they’re all using different definitions, hence my attempt to pinpoint what it is.

The overarching theme is ability to sell this thing called wrestling, and to sell it consistently over time.

It takes many skills to sell wrestling, but the overall talent of someone is their ability to achieve the end goal of selling wrestling.

That’s why Daniel Bryan is unanimously described as highly talented, and AJ Styles, and not Apollo Crews or Enzo, who have specific domains they’re talented in but are not talented overall.

Everything seems to relate back to the original goal of working a crowd for their money.

Last edited by IronMan8; 08-27-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 07:50 AM
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Re: “Talent”

Since wrestling is fake I judge talent on being able to entertain.

I don't care if a guy can "wrestle" a 10 star match. If he doesn't entertain me I don't consider him talented.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 08:17 AM
 
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So, the ability to realistically portray a scripted fight?

Is The Rock not talented?
Don't act stupid. The Rock was so talented at literally everything he has transcended the wrestling business.
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