Originally Posted by MonkasaurusRex
I'm saying that many people aren't trying to improve their CHARACTERS. Doing a moonsault off of a cage is part of the problem(and it definitely isn't character). That is a spot for spot's sake. I'm not saying you shouldn't go down that road if it makes sense. Recklessly wanting to do that shouldn't be your go to for engaging a crowd. It is the definition of every problem tht is currently proliferating the industry.
These guys are playing the SAME characters in WWE as they were before. They aren't interesting now. They weren't interesting then. That's the problem. I'm not saying that they aren't passionate about their work. I'm saying that most people's passion isn't about becoming great compelling characters it's about getting this is awesome chants. AJ Styles has been playing the same character for 15 years bland boring AJ Styles. His in ring work is great his character work is was and always will be average at the best of times. He has never tried to improve that, nowhere he has worked has tried to improve that the settle for this is what he is and that's good enough. There are guys who are exempt from this criticism like Miz.
Vince didn't make Styles be a generic "I'm a good wrestler" charcater for 15 years he just accepted that this is what AJ Styles is. That's clearly indicative of either AJ desire to improve on that of his ability to do so. That cannot be placed on Russo or Jarrett or Vince or Gedo and Jado. As I said plenty of people have attempted to make much worse creative work. Some have even succeeded in doing so. The problem is as much on performers as it is the system they work in. Some people can't do better and some people don't try to do better. Kurt Angle under Vince's purview took every absurd, demeaning, and out right pathetic piece of booking and tried to make it work because he wanted to because Kurt Angle great wrestler wasn't good enough for him. He wanted more. That is something that seems to be lacking in a lot of performers these days.
They do not have control on their character. You act as if everyone who comes from the indies play the same character. No mate, they play either a different character, or a watered down version of the same character.
And I think you need to understand the differnce between a simple character and character work. AJ Styles is one of the most unique characters in the WWE currently. He is the indie god, the one nobody thought would make it to the WWE. He comes in, acts like the god of the indies, with how his wrestlers, how he is arrogant over other guys for not accomplishing as much elsewhere, how he hates the WWE produces wrestlers specifically Cena and is so obsessive with it to the point of stealing his nicknames. His character work is brilliant, and it shows in not just backstage or promo segments but also how he wrestles. Just because he does not have an outlandish character, does not mean he has average character work. Tell me, what could he possibly do to play the character that he is better in any way?
Guys who were taken from the indies are good. They have to be to get noticed. That means people have acknowledged they are good, their wrestling is good, their characters are good etc. Its just when the WWE machine tries to manipulate those chracters to what they want and control every single thing they say is what screws them. Again, I will repeat this. They do not have control of their character. Its a bit hard to improve your character when you don't have control over it.
And as for Angle, how is that relevant? Angle came in at a time when WWE weren't as out of touch or micromanaging. He had plenty of sway on what he wanted to do and how he wanted to do it. Angle wasn't even given shit. He was just given a more comedy character to play early on but the material is still there.