The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore? - Page 9 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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Old 10-23-2016, 03:56 AM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by The Definition of Technician View Post
lol let me let you in on a little secret.
Your guy was a worse version of Roman Reigns, at least Reigns is average in the ring. Your guy sucked and he was lucky enough to be friends with HHH who decided to end his reign of terror by losing 3 times clean to his "friend". That's why he was eaten alive by the crowd in 14. If the BOOKING of Batista in 2005 wasn't perfect, and added to fact HHH's reign of terror was killing RAW, he would have been Mason Ryan.

In other words, every ME of the past era Rey, Punk, Bryan, Cena, Orton, Edge, Jericho, Taker, Angle, Jeff Hardy >> Batista.

Stop. I know he's pushing your buttons going at your guy Balor, but Roman couldn't hold prime Batista's jock strap. Reigns is the better worker but he's nowhere near the entertainer or personality. Batista's heel run with the shades was more entertaining than anything Roman has done to date. Reigns would be fortunate to have the success Batista had, and it's going to take more than kayfabe accomplishments and a head full of hair.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:33 AM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Lothario View Post
Stop. I know he's pushing your buttons going at your guy Balor, but Roman couldn't hold prime Batista's jock strap. Reigns is the better worker but he's nowhere near the entertainer or personality. Batista's heel run with the shades was more entertaining than anything Roman has done to date. Reigns would be fortunate to have the success Batista had, and it's going to take more than kayfabe accomplishments and a head full of hair.
That's true. I'm not a fan of either, Reigns is slightly the better worker while Batista's slightly better on the mic. If Batista, or really, if 80% of the roster would have gotten Reign's push, they'd have done a better job than him. Anw, the OP got way too derailed by this Batista/Balor topic and I'm not here to spam it.

I still think there are stars in the WWE, and it's down to creative and the fact that people are blood hungry sadist that want roided up guys killing each-other, is a factor in all of this.

I don't care for someone to make wrestling mainstream again, I care about watching Wrestling Stars, not Movie Stars or Stars who'll have a crossover appeal. Is Donald Trump consider a GOAT character in WWE now because he was considered a draw for WM 23, or Floyd for WM 24?

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Old 10-23-2016, 08:58 AM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Laser Rey View Post
I really don't think those examples are applicable to today's environment.

You could see the greatness in Austin as Stunning Steve and even in his extremely brief run as The Ringmaster. People in the industry who knew their shit (Paul E, Jim Ross, even Russo) LOVED Austin. Sometimes the audience is merely behind and that was certainly true of early to mid '90s wrestling crowds.

Rocky Maivia is also not a great example. He got X-Pac heat because wrestling was going through a massive transition in presentation and he was the poster boy for Vince's dated gimmicks. Not to mention, he was green as hell and had way less grooming than today's developmental figures. His PPV debut was a mere eight months after he decided to get into the industry. And listen to the way Jim Ross raved about him in those early broadcasts. He doesn't say everyone is going to be "the man" like he said about Rock. He met the kid and knew he had something special. The company was just initially off on how to package it. This was quickly rectified and he still shot to the moon in record time.

Obviously, the booking today is inconsistent and this makes things hard. But that doesn't change that Sami Zayn - in his look and his vibe - is a geek. He got over with highly niche audiences and his potential for drawing casuals in a main event/non-gimmicky capacity is extraordinarily limited.
I'm talking about the fans here. Yeah it's great that Jim Ross and Paul Heyman loved The Ringmaster, but that gimmick didn't get over at all. Rocky Maivia didn't get over at all. That's my point. Those men did have unbelievable charisma and the IT factor and whatnot, yet they only got over when they ditched those gimmicks and got new ones, that they were comfortable in. The problem today is that WWE has a single idea of what a top babyface should be, and force everyone in that mold. Look at Seth Rollins - they're not even trying to find a character he could prosper in, but are giving him lame cringeworthy script like Roman Reigns before him. This was a guy who was absolutely terrific as a socioopath heel willing to break an innocent man's neck to get what he wants. He got incredibly over during his time off and was super hot when he came back, but they ruined it completely. Major fault lies with how WWE does things nowadays, not because mothers all over America have suddenly stopped birthing charismatic kids after the year 2001.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Flat Ronnie View Post
Take the booze, steroids and drugs away from all of the previous generations stars and see what you get - a bunch of nothing.

I know it sounds silly but imagine everyone from Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, HBK, Goldberg, Outsiders, Savage etc without any juice or booze/drugs?!?!

Now replace all of that with smoothies and video games and you get the same pussy shit you see on the roster now.
Yes...we had that. It was 1993-1996 WWF (no steroids)
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Yes...we had that. It was 1993-1996 WWF (no steroids)
Perhaps it's not a coincidence this is considered the worst era since New Generation. Still though, I'd hate to believe the only difference between Macho Man and Sami Zayn is a lb of blow and some steroids.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:26 PM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Who knows if there's a correlation, but there's a lot more of these "I've wanted to do this all my life" people than in the past. A lot of wrestlers back in the day just kinda fell into wrestling, it wasn't something they set out to do from a young age. Regardless, wanting to do it all your life doesn't mean you're any good at it.
Every Dolph Ziggler promo...
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:22 PM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by The Definition of Technician View Post
I think I should also clarify by star, I 99% mean wrestling star, I don't give a fuck if someone becomes mainstream or not, like The Rock did. I mean a wrestling star that is well known, like Cena.
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Originally Posted by The Definition of Technician View Post
I don't care for someone to make wrestling mainstream again, I care about watching Wrestling Stars, not Movie Stars or Stars who'll have a crossover appeal. Is Donald Trump consider a GOAT character in WWE now because he was considered a draw for WM 23, or Floyd for WM 24?
Lucky for you, you don't need to worry about anyone on the roster becoming a mainstream star
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:58 PM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by The Definition of Technician View Post
I still think there are stars in the WWE, and it's down to creative and the fact that people are blood hungry sadist that want roided up guys killing each-other, is a factor in all of this.

I don't care for someone to make wrestling mainstream again, I care about watching Wrestling Stars, not Movie Stars or Stars who'll have a crossover appeal. Is Donald Trump consider a GOAT character in WWE now because he was considered a draw for WM 23, or Floyd for WM 24?
I think it's cute that you didn't want to continue to stir the pot but each of your posts condemns those who loved 90's wrestling. Calling blood thirsty and sadistic is the Definition of Technician's tactic.

Having a bit of edge doesn't make you a sadist. Again I point you to WCW from 94 to 99. Wrestlers wrestling for pride, money, fame and women was the crux of WCW in those years until it became a war against the nWo. Guys were all unique, colorful and versatile then, why not now? Because there are no stakes, pride, perks or prizes. It's a stale, sterile stagnation that permeates through a product that was in the zone for 35 years globally. A little edge goes a long way, look at what Heyman's SD did for WWE. Ratings, attendance and merch sales were all higher than Raw during the RUTHLESS AGGRESSION ERA, another time were the product was pg but still had the edge that people so desperately desire in this generation. People like you who want wrestling for the sake of wrestling are an odd bunch. You want matches with drama, suspense and a story but care nothing for the investment to get there. For a match to be HBK vs Taker you need a story of how they're warriors who got better with time. Angle vs Brock is the barebones story of two WRESTLERS with legit credentials who want to out WRESTLE the other. But neither of those matches/feuds works without a story attached to them that makes every wristlock, suplex and kick out mean something. You're not on the edge of your seat when Ryback or Strowman are wrecking jobbers, but you are on the edge of your seat when Ryback finally shell shocks Cena.

As for your tripe about crossover appeal, stop just stop. Those guys bring eyes to your product. WCW had Rodman, Malone and Leno on there shows for weeks straight. They weren't bigger than the business, they expanded it's reach. Maybe WCW didn't have the biggest black audience or a wrestler to reach them but that didn't stop them from trying with NBA stars at the time. Outside of Jordan, Rodman was the biggest star in the game at the time. Those celebrities were current superstars that bridged the gap between sports and entertainment. Same as the infamous Pete Rose. That's the difference between the 90's that you seem to hate so much and the Guest Host era. In the 90's they were there to ADD to the product, not dance and shill a direct to dvd movie. And they added an edge and drama, not silly stipulations. DDP and Malone wanted to tear Hogan and Rodman apart, not have an arm wrestling contest. It's not about making celebrities into GOATs, it's about enhancing the product. And when done right, it's what's best for business.

Wrestling DOESN'T NEED to be mainstream. It's just at it's ABSOLUTE BEST when it is.

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Old 10-23-2016, 06:25 PM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by DX-Superkick View Post
I think it's cute that you didn't want to continue to stir the pot but each of your posts condemns those who loved 90's wrestling. Calling blood thirsty and sadistic is the Definition of Technician's tactic.

Having a bit of edge doesn't make you a sadist. Again I point you to WCW from 94 to 99. Wrestlers wrestling for pride, money, fame and women was the crux of WCW in those years until it became a war against the nWo. Guys were all unique, colorful and versatile then, why not now? Because there are no stakes, pride, perks or prizes. It's a stale, sterile stagnation that permeates through a product that was in the zone for 35 years globally. A little edge goes a long way, look at what Heyman's SD did for WWE. Ratings, attendance and merch sales were all higher than Raw during the RUTHLESS AGGRESSION ERA, another time were the product was pg but still had the edge that people so desperately desire in this generation. People like you who want wrestling for the sake of wrestling are an odd bunch. You want matches with drama, suspense and a story but care nothing for the investment to get there. For a match to be HBK vs Taker you need a story of how they're warriors who got better with time. Angle vs Brock is the barebones story of two WRESTLERS with legit credentials who want to out WRESTLE the other. But neither of those matches/feuds works without a story attached to them that makes every wristlock, suplex and kick out mean something. You're not on the edge of your seat when Ryback or Strowman are wrecking jobbers, but you are on the edge of your seat when Ryback finally shell shocks Cena.

As for your tripe about crossover appeal, stop just stop. Those guys bring eyes to your product. WCW had Rodman, Malone and Leno on there shows for weeks straight. They weren't bigger than the business, they expanded it's reach. Maybe WCW didn't have the biggest black audience or a wrestler to reach them but that didn't stop them from trying with NBA stars at the time. Outside of Jordan, Rodman was the biggest star in the game at the time. Those celebrities were current superstars that bridged the gap between sports and entertainment. Same as the infamous Pete Rose. That's the difference between the 90's that you seem to hate so much and the Guest Host era. In the 90's they were there to ADD to the product, not dance and shill a direct to dvd movie. And they added an edge and drama, not silly stipulations. DDP and Malone wanted to tear Hogan and Rodman apart, not have an arm wrestling contest. It's not about making celebrities into GOATs, it's about enhancing the product. And when done right, it's what's best for business.

Wrestling DOESN'T NEED to be mainstream. It's just at it's ABSOLUTE BEST when it is.
When most of the complains are about guys not having the look, because they want roided up big guys, is this not a reason fair for criticism ? or when people are asking for bra and panties matches? or for chair shots to the head? You're exaggerating what I mean when I say "people are sadist" and you know it so stop. All the people that complain about the products today say this and compare to the things I mentioned.

I'm not against a story being told in the ring, my favorite promotion for the longest time was SHIMMER. Like 1 promo, 2-3 backstage segments, and the rest is wrestling matches, telling a story in the ring and each girl having her own character. That's enough for me, and yes each match does tell a story to a certain degree or another.

And all in all, what's your point? Sure having an edge adds to the product, but it's not happening, I'm not bothered by it as others are. If that's your point, then having an edge should be the bookers' job to do it, how is it the wrestlers' fault? The fact is, the wrestlers today are doing the best they can with what they're given to try and appeal to most. I don't blame the talent for star void.

I don't hate the 90's or the AE as much you'd think I would, I'm just not going to praise it like the rest and shit on the current product, when I see many guys and girls, bust their ass in the ring, and get shit on for it, it seems like everytime someone can wrestle, the anti-smark show up to shit on his drawing or star potential.

If you think it's the wrestlers fault they're not crossing over, then good for you.
Either way, even if you think we're the minority, this minority is still a very large number that's bringing tons of money to WWE.

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Old 10-24-2016, 04:27 AM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
I'd hate to believe the only difference between Macho Man and Sami Zayn is a lb of blow and some steroids.
Lol, I cant get the image of an aggressive, loudmouthed, jacked 250lb Sami Zayn out of my head now.
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